Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

[eabaker]

I'm not a big fan of this movie, but one element people seem to criticize a lot that I actually consider a strength is that it is ambiguous about whom you should be "rooting for."

[edgaguirus]

Neither Godzilla or Rodan are depicted as evil. They simply want the baby. You could say the most evil characters are the ministers and generals proposing to use Baby Godzilla as bait.

[godzillalives88]

I'm not a big fan of this movie, but one element people seem to criticize a lot that I actually consider a strength is that it is ambiguous about whom you should be "rooting for."

I agree. Not that I'm a big proponent for realism in these films, but having both species fighting to survive without demonizing them actually does make the proceedings more realistic. Plus, it's not like defining "good" and "bad" kaiju typically makes much of a difference any way - people still root for Godzilla in situations where he's clearly the antagonist (KK v. G, M v. G, GMK).

[g2vd]

You know something just came to me today something I can't believe I never thought of before....why did G-Force build pectoral muscles into MechaGodzilla?.....

[Ligerzilla2014]

They have some sort of cooking vent on the bottom.

[Stevo_1985]

You know something just came to me today something I can't believe I never thought of before....why did G-Force build pectoral muscles into MechaGodzilla?.....

Well I dont really know what his power source is, I don't even think it's mentioned in the film it's been while since I've seen it.. Those vents underneath them I would assume cool it.

They have some sort of cooking vent on the bottom.

I never knew he had a cafeteria inside him.

[Mechagigan]

Small theory I came up with on this one - During the training scene, we hear various tidbits of information about Godzilla's inner workings... how long it takes between spine-charge and release, safe hit points, etc. Seeing as they knew this information, it's possible that - much like how MKG's remains were analyzed - they figuratively reverse-engineered Godzilla himself to learn more about the monster, and test their beliefs. They created their own Godzilla because they knew so much about the real thing.

[KaijuCanuck]

This is my favourite Heisei film. I like the tonal switch to Godzilla being the sympathetic character, without having him go full superhero. Instead it's handled rather cleverly by a few characters beginning to realize that Godzilla is an animal with some form of internal life (going after and caring for Junior) and deserves some form of compassion. But it's complicated, because he's also so destructive, and so the Mechagodzilla and G-Crusher initiatives go ahead.

Also it just has my favourite score (possibly in the whole series), and great fights and sfx scenes. And RODAN! One of my favourite Godzilla films period.

[eabaker]

Also it just has my favourite score (possibly in the whole series), and great fights and sfx scenes. And RODAN!

While I don't rank the movie as a whole very high, I'm with you on the excellent score, some great fight/sfx material, and an appreciation of Rodan's 90s look. Heck, I even have a lot of affection for the much-maligned MG design.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Decent film: has a great soundtrack, ambiguous "hero" kaiju, most screen time of Godzilla, and G-Force! This film feels like a "summer blockbuster" to me. Overall 7 or 6/10.

[Jory]

You know something just came to me today something I can't believe I never thought of before....why did G-Force build pectoral muscles into MechaGodzilla?.....

The rule of cool.

[G&G-Fan]

Here is my review of Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1993) that will be in The Ultimate Godzilla Encyclopedia, a book I'm making that I plan on handing out for free at G-Fest.

It may come as a surprise to you that this film is actually my favorite Godzilla film of all time. I am a huge fan of almost everything about it, it contains almost everything I love about Godzilla movies and the Heisei series, and is all around just a fun movie to watch. No matter how many times I watch it, this film is exciting every time. I’m never bored by any scene in this film. I can say without a doubt it is one of the most underrated Godzilla films of all time.

First, this new Mechagodzilla is AWESOME! Some may prefer the Showa Mechagodzilla or Kiryu, but the Mechagodzilla in this film is definitely my personal favorite. He has a great look, and is definitely the most powerful Mechagodzilla of the four. Mechagodzilla is just freakin' brutal, having a huge arsonal of weapons and not seeming to give Godzilla or Rodan any mercy. Having it combine with the Garuda was also a pretty neat idea. Kiryu kind of does have a better design, but he is so weak (one Godzilla atomic breath and he's down for the count) it almost ruins him for me. Some people say that this Mechagodzilla is emotionless, but that’s actually kind of the point, and that leads me to my next topic.

Just like in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, Godzilla is the star of the film, at least in my opinion. First of all, he has the most screen time in this film out of all of the movies, which is a plus. Second, he’s as badass (if not more) than he was in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah. Especially when he destroys Mechagodzilla at the end, which may be my favorite Godzilla moment in the franchise. But also, and most importantly, this film is the first film that makes you feel for Godzilla (at least it was for me). Throughout the Heisei series, Godzilla has been trying to search for something like him, such as when he followed birds in The Return of Godzilla, and when he headed towards Biollante in Godzilla vs. Biollante, because both of them were like him in some way (the birds evolved from dinosaurs, and Biollante is a cell donor of Godzilla). When he finds out about the Godzillasaurus offspring, he goes to great lengths to find him, even risking his own life. I always felt sorry for Godzilla when the scientists at the institute hide Baby Godzilla from Godzilla in the underground storage cell. You can see the frustration in Godzilla when he leaves the city, and the scene is accompanied by a sorrowful sounding score. It’s just sad how when Godzilla finally finds something to call family, the humans try to take it away from him. I adore the ending scene when Godzilla meets with Baby Godzilla, and it is very satisfying ending, much more satisfying than the one in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (originally, this film was going to be the final one before the TriStar Godzilla film). It's also sad to see Godzilla just get mutilated, which makes it so satisfying to see Godzilla blow Mechagodzilla up at the end. The reason Mechagodzilla is emotionless (at least this is how I interpreted it) is because you’re supposed to feel sorry for Godzilla. This film was meant to give Godzilla emotions, not Mechagodzilla (come to think of it, the Kiryu saga is kind of the other way around: making Godzilla an emotionless brute while making you feel sorry for Kiryu).

Speaking of Baby Godzilla, this new version of the son of Godzilla is proportions better than Minilla in Son of Godzilla. I don’t hate Minilla like other Godzilla fans (except when he talks in All Monsters Attack), but Baby Godzilla looks a lot more dinosaur like, and he actually does kind of look cute, when Minilla failed miserably at doing so. I would take this new Baby Godzilla over Minilla any day. This film also does a good job of not only making you feel empathy for not only Godzilla, but for Baby Godzilla as well. I like Baby Godzilla’s addition to the film, and I think that it’s interesting to have him be the center of the action, instead of it just being Godzilla fighting Mechagodzilla because… reasons.

And the last of the kaiju (at least the main ones in the film) is Rodan. I actually really like this design of Rodan. I think it’s an interesting idea to have him smaller than Godzilla, since before now almost all of his foes have been the same size as him or bigger than him, and it also fits the size comparison between a therapod dinosaur and a pterosaur. I also like how he looks more like an actual Pteranodon, and I always thought some of the Showa Rodan’s looked kind of derpy (I LOVE the 1956 design though).

The effects by Koichi Kawakita are definitely the best yet. The Godzilla, Rodan, Baby Godzilla, and Mechagodzilla suits/puppet (in this film, Rodan is controlled entirely by strings) all look great, and the special effects are spectacular. The sets also look great. The Adonoa Island set looks like it was actually filmed on a real island, when really it was just something Toho made in their studio. The amazing animatronic Godzilla and Baby Godzilla heads allow both Godzilla and Baby Godzilla to be expressive, and you can tell how they are feeling through their facial expressions, and it gives more life to the monsters, when in most of the Showa films, Godzilla has the same expression on his face throughout the entire film. There isn’t a moment in this film in which it looks like it was rushed, or the special effects crew didn’t know what they were doing. Each scene is top notch.

The fighting in this movie is also great. Like Godzilla vs. Mothra, the Showa fans like to exaggerate the amount of beams there are. There are lots of beams, but there is physical combat scenes in this film, like how Godzilla is able to lift Mechagodzilla, which is much heavier than himself, without strain. And the entire fight between Godzilla and Rodan on Adonoa Island has lots of physical combat in it as well. The beam fights (at least for me) are also exciting and fun to watch. Like I said before, this film is never boring to me.

The score for this film by Akira Ifukube is also my favorite Godzilla score of all time. Every theme fits each scene in the film, and I love every one of them. Godzilla’s theme has been updated again, this time with a very triumphant sound that most definitely fits the king of the monsters. Mechagodzilla and the Garuda have very military-like themes that sound like the theme of a tank. Rodan has his classic theme, which never ceases to amaze me. And finally, the music from the ancient vegetation found on Baby Godzilla's egg (both the one straight from the plant and the choir version) is probably the most beautiful piece of music I have ever heard.

Overall, the Heisei version of Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla has outstanding visuals, spectacular special effects, likeable characters, an interesting story, a beautiful soundtrack, and great looking monster designs. If you're not a huge Heisei Godzilla fan, then you may not like it, but for Heisei fans like me and for huge Godzilla fans in general, this is an exhilarating film that I would recommend to any Godzilla fan.

[AbudJasemAlBaldawi]

I'm curious why they changed MechaGodzilla's design from the poster to the movie. Even if they didn't have the budget for him to split into 3 much (which I doubt) or rewrote the story removing the combined much MG idea, his actual design could've still been used in this movie and would've been so much sexier.

[eabaker]

I much prefer the more elegant design in the movie to the overwrought poster version.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Rodan: "Godzilla, I don't feel so good."

I couldn't resist

[Shobijin]

Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II was surprisingly good upon chronological rewatch. I admit I saw it out of order- and with English dub- on my first viewing in the early 2000s and was bored.
This time I was that the fight scenes were exciting and so were the rampages.
Act 1 was slow with the introduction of all the humans and Baby Godzilla, but G-Force is a good concept. Act 2 stepped the pace up and Act 3 really delivered.

I think if the movie eliminated that B-Plot of Baby Godzilla and Asuza it would have been much more tight, if not perfect.
I like that things are left unexplained in terms of monster motivations- these are alien or godlike entities.
It is not a negative to not know to root for Mechagodzilla- once again, it's a Godzilla trope to be beyond good or evil. In post-modern fiction, fans complain about good and evil, but here G-Force is just trying to do its job to stop rampages. (Personally I root for Godzilla in every movie, since that's who I pay to see.)

Poor Rodan. Amazing how Mothra is protected in her films, but Rodan lost all its battles.

GvMII is better than the twin Showa Mechagdozilla movies.

[eabaker]

Act 2 stepped the pace up and Act 3 really delivered.

Act 2 is where this movie completely loses me. The first act sets everything up efficiently enough, and the third act gets by on entertaining action, but the whole middle of the movie just feels like marking time.

[Godzilla21]

Not sure where to put this but why did Toho stop using Tohoscope with the Heisei films?

[GalacticPetey]

So I have a friend who's super into Disney. Like the same way most of us are with Godzilla. He's heard about the shots of Rodan flying over Tokyo Disney and is fascinated by them. He was wondering if there's any backstory on it. Like if there's a reason they chose Disney or if they had to get any kind of permission. I don't have my MGII blu-ray close by at the moment, and I'm not sure if it even has credits where I could check anyway.

I think it was probably just for generic stock footage, but who knows.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Not sure where to put this but why did Toho stop using Tohoscope with the Heisei films?

Kawakita mentioned at one point that monsters appeared larger in the 1.85:1 format to Toho went with that.