Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Ivo-goji » Thu May 23, 2019 9:17 am

I also like this film more than GTTHM and Monster Zero.

My favorite interpretation of Ghidorah remains the one from Rebirth of Mothra III however.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Jeff-Goldblum2 » Sat May 25, 2019 5:56 am

Is the existence of Steven Spielberg canon to the Heisei Series?

Why does Godzilla sound like Gamera in dinosaur form?

Has anybody noticed around the 54.00 min mark the sign on the door. It says Super Scientific Play-Room.

It's the dialogue scene right before M-11's chase scene on the street.

Poor choice of sign by a Non-English speaking set designer?

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby KManX89 » Sat May 25, 2019 8:23 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:God, this feels like it'll be harder to say than coming out as gay to strict, southern, Christian parents...
Well, here goes...


This is my favorite incarnation of Ghidorah.

Don't @ me, Showa super-fans


While I wouldn't rate this movie's version of Ghidorah the best, I do think it is the best film he's been in, save for maybe GMK.

And I'd like to clear up one little misconception some people have with the ending: some people think Mecha King Ghidorah beat Godzilla in the final battle... no he didn't. Godzilla actually got the last hit during that fight via his atomic breath, sending them both to the ocean and in the end credits scene, Godzilla is shown being the only survivor. Sure MKG carried Godzilla away, but that doesn't in any way denote a win. Godzilla got the last hit during that fight and survived the fall while MKG didn't. He won (again), I don't get why some people think it's more complicated than that.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby UltramanGoji » Sat May 25, 2019 8:29 am

KManX89 wrote:Sure MKG carried Godzilla away, but that doesn't in any way denote a win.


Yes it does, that was literally the entire goal of the fight. To get Godzilla out of Tokyo before he destroyed it entirely.

MKG won. Godzilla survived the battle but he’s at the bottom of the ocean now. He lost. Emmy survived and went back to the future. She won.

I wish people would stop treating these films’ fights as UFC bouts and start treating them as the narrative devices they really are.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby JAGzilla » Sun May 26, 2019 1:10 am

UltramanGoji wrote:
KManX89 wrote:Sure MKG carried Godzilla away, but that doesn't in any way denote a win.


Yes it does, that was literally the entire goal of the fight. To get Godzilla out of Tokyo before he destroyed it entirely.

MKG won. Godzilla survived the battle but he’s at the bottom of the ocean now. He lost. Emmy survived and went back to the future. She won.

I wish people would stop treating these films’ fights as UFC bouts and start treating them as the narrative devices they really are.


Seconded. Godzilla's goal was to continue destroying Tokyo, Emmy's goal was to end Godzilla's rampage. At the end of the fight, Godzilla is miles away from Tokyo and unable to do any further damage, so he can no longer achieve his goal, while Emmy already has achieved hers. That makes this a crystal clear, indisputable win for Emmy.


EDIT: Well... okay, this does admittedly depend on the question that's being asked. If we're asking who the story of Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah treated as the winner, then yes, it's clearly MKG/Emmy. But if we're just asking who won in a story-free, to-the-death fantasy match-fuel vacuum, we can say that Godzilla demonstrated the durability to shrug off MKG's weaponry and offensive power sufficient to kill MKG (as evidenced by MKG's death), while MKG merely demonstrated the ability to stun or briefly incapacitate Godzilla, and proved highly vulnerable to Godzilla's atomic ray. So Godzilla is the winner from that point of view.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Living Corpse » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:45 am

Was thinking about this the past few days, not only did the 90's Gamera Trilogy do a better job of playing with the trope of a young woman having a psychic connection with a giant monster than the Heisei Godzilla films, but even Mr. Shindo had a more meaningful connection with Godzilla than Miki and he get's killed by him in a rain of blue hellfire.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:02 am

Living Corpse wrote:Was thinking about this the past few days, not only did the 90's Gamera Trilogy do a better job of playing with the trope of a young woman having a psychic connection with a giant monster than the Heisei Godzilla films, but even Mr. Shindo had a more meaningful connection with Godzilla than Miki and he get's killed by him in a rain of blue hellfire.

Yeah, Miki doesn't do much besides appear in a couple films just to say Godzilla is arriving.

Godzilla and the Human Vapor staring off is a highlight, with a much tighter script it might've been even better.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Omegazilla » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:58 pm

I like this movie despite it's unorthodox narrative and different take on Ghidorah. However it introduced a very key element to the Heisei series and Godzilla at large, and that is supercharging Godzilla. This movie I believe set in motion the modern Heisei Godzilla we all know and love that seems to still be one of the most iconic designs. It is finally good to see Ghidorah not be a mindless space monster and be a genetically engineered mutated bioweapon instead. Ghidorah being a planet destroyed in the Showa series yet being controlled by all these different aliens just never sat right with me. Mecha-King Ghidorah is also nice as well.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby GmkGoji » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:04 pm

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby UltramanGoji » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:46 pm

If we're being nitpicky, the MOTHER ship was already partially exploding anyway thanks to Teresawa, Emi and M-11's explosives. I doubt it needed much more to blow up further.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:16 pm

GmkGoji wrote:Image

Almost like those screenshots are from two separate movies where Godzilla's power needed to be appropriately modulated!

Unrelated to the meme I posted, but I've been thinking about how much of a partial remake of IOTAM this film is.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Terasawa » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:28 pm

Didn’t Godzilla have a supercharged heat ray during the first King Ghidorah battle?

The staging of the first monster battle in Godzilla vs Mothra is pretty sloppy though. That includes the indestructible barge.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:39 pm

Terasawa wrote:Didn’t Godzilla have a supercharged heat ray during the first King Ghidorah battle?

The staging of the first monster battle in Godzilla vs Mothra is pretty sloppy though. That includes the indestructible barge.

I think the indestructible barge was to make the battle more than just Mothra flopping about in the ocean, and provide some background/literal set piece to interact with.

Not sure about the Supercharged heat ray, although a simple ret-con/excuse could be that since Godzilla just woke up and recently ingested nuclear material he was the strongest he had been in a while.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Terasawa » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:02 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Terasawa wrote:Didn’t Godzilla have a supercharged heat ray during the first King Ghidorah battle?

The staging of the first monster battle in Godzilla vs Mothra is pretty sloppy though. That includes the indestructible barge.

I think the indestructible barge was to make the battle more than just Mothra flopping about in the ocean, and provide some background/literal set piece to interact with.


Exactly, but that's still the sloppy execution I'm talking about. Obviously the barge is supposed to be a platform against which the immobile Mothra prop can be anchored, and it also gives the monsters something to interact with other than what's supposed to be the open ocean. The problem is that neither Mothra's nor Battra's designs or props/costumes are adapted for anything but a terrestrial battle. It was a bad decision to stage the first monster combat in the film in an environment where two of the three participating monsters are limited by design and execution.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby shadowgigan » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:48 am

I've always felt like Godzilla seems less powerful in 92 than 91, but I really have nothing to base that on. The larvas seem to be more durable than Biollante or even MKG to some extent. I think Godzilla had a tougher time with KG earlier in the film as well.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby godjacob » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:28 am

Time travel plot was a bit...silly, but the bad American actors make it entertaining and I do generally like Emi and M-11. Plus the Godzillasaurus was pretty cool.

The action scenes IMO are some of the better of the Heisei films. I loved King Ghidorah's design but am not a fan of his origin or character (Basically a mind controlled female dog who becomes incompetent when someone isn't telling him what to do.) Godzilla is amazing though, I really like how he was both a hero and villain in this movie showing Godzilla fights for its own interests not humanity's.

Mecha-King Ghidorah was an out there but pretty enjoyable idea. Though felt it underperformed compared to its non cybernetic counterpart. All in all a fun time and one of my favs of the Heisei era.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu May 21, 2020 6:13 am

I’m rewatching this, and I noticed something really neat, and I think this sums up/shows why I think this film is a cut above the entries that follow it.

When the Godzillasaurus attacks, a specific music track plays. The dinosaur lurches-forward, knocking over trees with its tail and feet. The military tries to push it back, and the forces on shore are destroyed.

When Godzilla destroys sapporo in the film, the. Same music track plays. The way Godzilla destroys Sapporo, minus the beam, is almost identical to how Godzillasaurus confronts the US military. In both scenes, Godzilla even briefly falls over, before getting back up and destroying everything.

Shortly after, we get a scene with Shindo and Godzillasaurus/Godzilla being sentimental.

Really nice parallel.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu May 21, 2020 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 21, 2020 8:05 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’m rewatching this, and I noticed something really neat, and I think this sums up/shows why I think this film is a cut above the entries that follow it.

When the Godzillasaurus attacks, a specific music track plays. The dinosaur lurches-forward, knocking over trees with its tail and feet. The military tries to push it back, and the forces on shore are destroyed.

When Godzilla destroys sapporo in the film, the. Same music track plays. The way Godzilla destroys Sapporo, minus the beam, is almost identical to how Godzillasaurus confronts the US military. In both scenes, Godzilla even briefly falls over, before getting back up and destroying everything.

Shortly after, we get a scene with Shindo and Godzillasaurus/Godzilla being sentimental.

Really nice parallel.


Nice!

I just re-watched this last night, and it's still sitting in the blu-ray player, so I'll make sure to check this out before I take it out.

One thing I was noticing last night is the heavy use of zooms. I've talked on here before about my love of Shindo's introductory shot (starting on dinosaur models, pulling focus to a CU on Shindo, then panning and zooming out with him as he gets up from his desk and walks over to the other characters), but there are a handful of other places where Omori (and cinematographer Yoshinori Sekiguchi) open on close-up and then zoom out to reveal the other characters. In general, I think opening close and then moving wide (via zoom, move, or cut) is really impactful when it's appropriate, and zooms can create a particular sense of urgency.

On the whole, GvsKG has some of the most kinetic camera work in the Godzilla series, and certainly takes the prize for the Heisei era (obviously nobody else has flung the camera around as much as Kitamura would...).
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby Terasawa » Thu May 21, 2020 11:44 am

I picked up a new detail the last time I watched this: while Glenchiko is explaining time warp physics to the 20th century time travelers, he says "It doesn't work the way it does in movies," a nice little excuse from Omori. :P The English dub instead has him say "That's a very good question, Professor, but easy to answer."

Speaking of parallels, I appreciate the way Omori cleverly ties together the origins of modern (1992) Japan and Godzilla. In this film Godzilla is basically a metaphor for Japan's post-war rebirth and especially its meteoric growth as a capitalist society, which Omori definitely doesn't celebrate. Thematically it's one of the most ambitious Godzilla movies, maybe the most ambitious. There's a lot going on under the surface.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 21, 2020 12:09 pm

Terasawa wrote:Speaking of parallels, I appreciate the way Omori cleverly ties together the origins of modern (1992) Japan and Godzilla. In this film Godzilla is basically a metaphor for Japan's post-war rebirth and especially its meteoric growth as a capitalist society, which Omori definitely doesn't celebrate. Thematically it's one of the most ambitious Godzilla movies, maybe the most ambitious. There's a lot going on under the surface.


Yup. This is what I really love so much about the movie. Shindo and Godzilla are both honorable characters when they survive WW2 together, but in the aftermath of the war - one under the influence of American weapons, the other under the influence of American economics - both essentially grow into monsters.

After Serizawa, Shindo is probably my favorite character in the entire series.
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