Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

[Zarm]

In general, while I enjoy some good monster action, it's also something that can get old for me really fast.

So true! And strangely paradoxical, considering the subject matter. A great deal of what differentiates from my childhood favorites and my adult favorites has to do specifically with this. (Spacegodzilla, I'm lookin' at you!)

[Rodan]

Either way, GvKG comes off a lot more uneven visually- and, ironically, in story, despite the complaints often levied against GvB. It's the most sci-fi story, and M-11 is fun- but the WWII scenes are uncomfortable (at least to an American)- and most fun of all are Major Spielberg and his commanding officer, one of whom appears to be an actor and the other who is... not.

What makes them "uncomfortable" as an American? The terrible, terrible English-language acting (which I agree with), or seeing the American soldiers cast as antagonists?

Because if it's the latter, I don't think the film's that black and white, and its relationship with WWII and lingering post-war guilt (while not admonishing characters like Shindo for their pride as individuals) is one of the most fascinating things about it.

[Zarm]

Yes, mostly that- watching American soldiers massacred with glee.

I'm not condemning it, mind you- just calling it uncomfortable to watch, for me.

[Rodan]

Yes, mostly that- watching American soldiers massacred with glee.

I'm not condemning it, mind you- just calling it uncomfortable to watch, for me.

Eh, fair. There are two sides (at least) to every war, and it's not as if modern Japan is comfortable with its participation politically or socially. As individual soldiers, theirs were the same as ours though -- mostly young men who just wanted to come home alive.

I might take more of an issue with it if there weren't such a strong anti-war current running through the Godzilla franchise as a whole.

[Mr. Xeno]

Yes, mostly that- watching American soldiers massacred with glee.

I'm not condemning it, mind you- just calling it uncomfortable to watch, for me.

This is why I just don't like war films in general (albeit with the nationalities switched in most of them), but GvKG is actually one of the only films I've seen that does it in such a way as to undeniably show it from a genuinely non-American point of view while still not being the slightest bit anti-American. It's almost strange to say, but critically acclaimed American movies could learn a thing or two from some of the Godzilla films.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Yes, mostly that- watching American soldiers massacred with glee.

I'm not condemning it, mind you- just calling it uncomfortable to watch, for me.

But ya know, Godzilla destroying tanks, soldiers, buildings, peoples livelihoods, that's just a-Ok.

I used to think GVKG was actually a really pro Japanese film, given the early antagonists are white, and the WW2 scenes, plus the time it came out (early 1990's during Japan having tons of money) but looking now it's really unclear if there was any intention behind anything. Godzilla "saves" Japan from KG, but then winds up destroying Japan and then the protagonists rely on outside help, Americans(?), to defeat Godzilla. It doesn't really have a goal, or clear agenda.

There's one scene that always stuck out to me, the reason for the Futurians mission, that Japan is some economic powerhouse (heh) in the future that's essentially taken over the world and as a result the future UN/West/America is sent back to cripple them. The irony is that for all we know maybe Japan in the future Heisei series would be some tyrannical country, given how by the end of the Heisei series they have tons of future weapons, giant mechs, and a bunch of stuff—whoa, I'm going off on a tangent, but wouldn't it be kinda cool if the Heisei series someday continued with that plot thread from Godzilla vs King Ghidorah?

[Zarm]

Yes, mostly that- watching American soldiers massacred with glee.

I'm not condemning it, mind you- just calling it uncomfortable to watch, for me.

But ya know, Godzilla destroying tanks, soldiers, buildings, peoples livelihoods, that's just a-Ok.

Steady on, there- that's a bit of a leap! The camera seldom lingers at ground level or features that sort of bludgeoning, crushing death. The entire island scene- bombardment of the godzillasaur included- presents what feels to me like gratuitous and ground-level violence, far in excess of the typical, antiseptic, conceptual-damage. It's the same reason I find the murder/torture scene in Robocop a lot more disturbing than Luke Skywalker blowing up the Death Star, even though thousands or millions more people 'died' in that film- because of the way the camera focuses on it; the way the film portrays it. (And yeah, the additional identifier of American soldiers- an occupation I can count amongst my extended family, and a group from this particular era which I respect and look up to- does increase that disturbing factor a bit; it's already uncomfortable, and the way I relate to the specific targets of that violence amplifies it as well.)

[eabaker]

I used to think GVKG was actually a really pro Japanese film, given the early antagonists are white, and the WW2 scenes, plus the time it came out (early 1990's during Japan having tons of money) but looking now it's really unclear if there was any intention behind anything. Godzilla "saves" Japan from KG, but then winds up destroying Japan and then the protagonists rely on outside help, Americans(?), to defeat Godzilla. It doesn't really have a goal, or clear agenda.

My reading of the movie is that it is reprimanding unchecked capitalism specifically within Japanese society. So, to whatever degree it is "anti-American," it is anti-American-influence-on-Japanese-economics/culture.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I used to think GVKG was actually a really pro Japanese film, given the early antagonists are white, and the WW2 scenes, plus the time it came out (early 1990's during Japan having tons of money) but looking now it's really unclear if there was any intention behind anything. Godzilla "saves" Japan from KG, but then winds up destroying Japan and then the protagonists rely on outside help, Americans(?), to defeat Godzilla. It doesn't really have a goal, or clear agenda.

My reading of the movie is that it is reprimanding unchecked capitalism specifically within Japanese society. So, to whatever degree it is "anti-American," it is anti-American-influence-on-Japanese-economics/culture.

In the 1990's weren't a large faction of Japanese people communists?

[eabaker]

I used to think GVKG was actually a really pro Japanese film, given the early antagonists are white, and the WW2 scenes, plus the time it came out (early 1990's during Japan having tons of money) but looking now it's really unclear if there was any intention behind anything. Godzilla "saves" Japan from KG, but then winds up destroying Japan and then the protagonists rely on outside help, Americans(?), to defeat Godzilla. It doesn't really have a goal, or clear agenda.

My reading of the movie is that it is reprimanding unchecked capitalism specifically within Japanese society. So, to whatever degree it is "anti-American," it is anti-American-influence-on-Japanese-economics/culture.

In the 1990's weren't a large faction of Japanese people communists?

I know communism has been a significant part of Japanese politics since before WWII, but I don't know anything about how prevalent it was in the 90s. I'm pretty sure they've never had a majority party, though.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Not a bad movie, not the worst but I didn't mind it. The only flaws I didn't like was the time travel confusing thing and King Ghidorah's origin. Him being a mutation by a nuke from three creatures just doesn't appeal to me. I enjoy his original origin, him being the space monster that destroys entire civilizations across the stars he is.

[edgaguirus]

Same here. Ghidorah should never be cute.

[baragon123]

Am I crazy for thinking that Godzilla vs King Ghidorah is the Heisei era's answer to the 70's Godzilla movies? I don't think that was the creative intention but that's the feeling I get from this movie. I think the biggest part of why I feel this way is the human element of the story and by extension the antagonists especially. They're so over the top and flamboyant that's it makes me think of the Nebulans from Godzilla vs Gigan or the the Simians from Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla. The protagonists give me that Godzilla vs Gigan vibe, too. Also the time travel plot seems like something that would be used in a 70's or Showa Godzilla film in general. The English dubbing also draws the comparison for me because I'm pretty sure some of the voice actors that were used for this one did voices in the 70's films, too.

Anyways, this one has always been one of my favorite Godzilla movies. This along with the previous two films are in this member's humble opinion are the best of the Heisei series. While ROG and Godzilla vs Biollante are more serious, I love this one for the care-free bat shit insanity it entails and even in it's cheese and silliness it manages be quite thoughtful with the sub plot of Shindo and his past with Godzilla. The human story while not great still manages to get me invested with the characters. The Futuraians(that's what they're called, right?) are one of my favorite evil doers from the Godzilla series and M-11 steals the show along with Shindo in that department. The monster action is also great in this one. Godzilla himself looks threatening and badass and the best he looked the Heisei series. While I'm not crazy about the origin they gave King Ghidorah in this one, his updated look works fine for the movie. The first fight between the two is intense and the part where Godzilla is slamming Ghidorah with his tails is an awesome FUCK YEAH moment. The miniature work for the final fight of the movie is pretty rad and well done from a SFX standpoint.

All in all, one of my faves. It's a shame that the remaining Heisei films take themselves too seriously to the point of boredom, though.

[ernesth100]

I was watching the fight scen and realized Godzilla was foaming at the mouth. Was Ghidorah chocking him with his neck?

If so Ghidorah has a strong ass neck.

[Pkmatrix]

I was watching the fight scen and realized Godzilla was foaming at the mouth. Was Ghidorah chocking him with his neck?

If so Ghidorah has a strong ass neck.

Yes, he was.

[ernesth100]

Damn hope they adapt that ability in Legendary Series. It autta look super cool in CGI form

[BoulderFaceplant]

I saw this again with a friend, and I'm disappointed to report that this is one of the most boring G films I've ever seen. The conference scenes are unbelievably dull and drag on forever, really dragging it down. Monster action was pretty cool, but the Ghidorah fight dragged a bit, too. Here's my heisei ranking as of right now:
1. Godzilla vs. Destroyah
2. Godzilla vs. Biollante
3. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II
4. Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla (technically a much inferior film to Ghidorah but it makes me laugh)
5. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
6. Godzilla vs. Mothra

Need to see again: Return of Godzilla

[eabaker]

It's never felt to me like this movie was at all bogged down in conference scenes. I actually find the pace of GvsKG pretty brisk; there's a lot of dialogue, sure, but there's also a lot of new information and new situations continually emerging.

[Godzillian]

It's never felt to me like this movie was at all bogged down in conference scenes. I actually find the pace of GvsKG pretty brisk; there's a lot of dialogue, sure, but there's also a lot of new information and new situations continually emerging.

Feel the same way. This always had a nice pace to me

[RandomDeinonychus]

I saw this again with a friend, and I'm disappointed to report that this is one of the most boring G films I've ever seen. The conference scenes are unbelievably dull and drag on forever, really dragging it down. Monster action was pretty cool, but the Ghidorah fight dragged a bit, too. Here's my heisei ranking as of right now:
1. Godzilla vs. Destroyah
2. Godzilla vs. Biollante
3. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II
4. Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla (technically a much inferior film to Ghidorah but it makes me laugh)
5. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
6. Godzilla vs. Mothra

Need to see again: Return of Godzilla

I gotta say the conference scenes were never really my problem with it, but now that you mention it the pacing does really hurt it and they're definitely a big part of why. It has all these crazy sequences that should make me love it, yet I still find it kind of dull. Personally, if I had to rank the Heisei films it'd be:

1. Godzilla vs. Biollante
2. Godzilla 1985 (still haven't seen The Return of Godzilla from beginning to end so I can't rate it)
3. Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla
4. Godzilla vs. Mothra
5. Godzilla vs. Destoroyah
6. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II
7. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah

I almost ranked Destoroyah lower, but that didn't feel right. Even though the film feels very sloppy, like everyone involved was ready to give up and was putting in the bare minimum effort--including probably the worst effects* in the Heisei series--it still packs a punch when Godzilla dies and there's some good sequences aside from that.

[* No, I'm not forgetting the styrofoam asteroid belt. That was one brief sequence in a film full of effects that were overall pretty solid, while Destoroyah features an effect that bad or worse in pretty much every kaiju sequence. I'm particularly fond of the pedestrians in the foreground who have utterly failed to notice Godzilla tearing up Hong Kong behind them]

I think Mothra gets crapped on because of the inherent bias agianst Mothra in the fandom, because it's an enjoyable if unremarkable film. Meanwhile, I understand the issues that everyone has with Space Godzilla, but I personally find it way more entertaining than most of the post 1990 Heisei entries. Sure, it has one of the worst Godzilla suits, Little Godzilla is a bad design, and it's the worst offender of the beam spamming--but I just can't help but enjoy it, especially for the Showa throwback that it plainly is.

And, well, Mechagodzilla II is just kind of...there. It's not awful, but it's just so unengaging.