Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Space Hunter M » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:08 pm

You're scum! You bastaaarrrd!!! You're worse than I THOOOOOOUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHTTTtttoooOOOhhhhhhhhHHH*splash*

Lain Of The Wired wrote:Because the editing, imo, seems really choppy.

I wouldn't say choppy, per say, but way too many shots linger, IMO. There are so many questionable editing choices, like the "Open the screen!" scene.
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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby KaijuDuke » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:59 pm

For me personally, despite Battle For The Earth making the most money, I consider it to be the absolute worst Godzilla film of the Heisei era (not counting that 98 film of course lol), hands down. It comes across less as a Godzilla film and more as a comeback vehicle for Mothra, and pretty much rehashes themes we've seen done better before in previous films, the whole "stupid greedy humans kidnap Mothra's egg and/or fairies so she goes on a rampage to rescue them" plot...And of course, our main protagonists ignore how Mothra murdered who knows how many people in the process of finding her fairies, & that ending where the fairies reveal they can fly/levitate, so they could have easily saved themselves without summoning Mothra to rain hell down on everyone...Its the "Tinkerbell Effect," just because they're cute, Mothra & the fairies aren't held responsible for their actions, or regarded with the same dread as the likes of Godzilla or Battra. Also, that environmental plot...Ugh, so preachy and forced and painful to listen to, protecting the environment is important, but the film handled it really badly (something the Rebirth films would do as well).

As for Battra, I see him as mostly a product of his time in the same vein as Minya or Gabara, only less goofy. What I mean, is that he's a darker, edgier version of Mothra, a character who probably would have been better suited for the Mothra trilogy rather than the Godzilla series...Which is ironic for my older self to admit because as a kid I used to think of Battra as Mothra done right, and while he's certainly fiercer looking, he's actually a very unbalanced kaiju. In his larval form not only is he bigger and stronger than Mothra's larval form by leaps & bounds, but he's actually big enough & strong enough to fight Godzilla to a stalemate! He could take a hit & deliver a hit, & survived being dumped in lava just like Godzilla (oh, that's a plot hole too, the characters should have known Godzilla would survive being dumped into a volcano since he was submerged in one for years between the events of The Return of Godzilla & Godzilla vs Biollante). However, despite how formidable Battra is as a armored, horned, laser beam firing caterpillar, his adult form was far less impressive, not just because the puppet used to depict his adult form was stiff & less believable than his larva suit, but also because he comes off as being MUCH weaker than before rather than stronger.

When Mothra goes from caterpillar to imago form, she gets bigger and stronger, whereas Battra gets smaller & weaker. Yes, he can fly in imago form, and supposedly his eye beams are stronger & more concentrated, but he loses his horn beam and his eye beams honestly seem weaker than before, seeming to me to be less effective against Godzilla than his larval form's firepower. Heck, his accuracy even went down since he flat out misses his mark several times despite Mothra flying right in front of him during their rematch...And unlike his larval form, his adult form can't take what Godzilla can dish out nearly as well as before...So yeah, when you face the facts Battra's not quite as badass as he initially seems.

I think I'd rather have seen Godzilla & Mothra come together to defeat a mutual foe, such as the unmade scorpion kaiju they ultimately rejected in favor of Gigamoth & then Battra. Pity really, probably would have made for a more epic final battle, & I can see the Sasori kaiju as something that could have been problematic for both Godzilla & Mothra, whereas Godzilla & Mothra vs Battra would have been pretty one sided, & as for two giant moth puppets ganging up on Godzilla, well, we know how "well" that was executed lol. . I will admit however that the first fight between Godzilla & Battra is pretty cool, and that the Godzilla costume was great, & that the music was beautiful, but this is still the one Heisei film I revisit the least often.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Legion1979 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:29 am

I was 14 when I first saw this movie in 1993, and I thought it was awesome. Now I'm 36 and I can barely watch it.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby three » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:18 am

Legion1979 wrote:I was 14 when I first saw this movie in 1993, and I thought it was awesome. Now I'm 36 and I can barely watch it.


so the movie is boring or you are...

..or both are true. ;)
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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:56 am

Space Hunter M wrote:You're scum! You bastaaarrrd!!! You're worse than I THOOOOOOUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHTTTtttoooOOOhhhhhhhhHHH*splash*


Aww, man, I forgot how amazing the dub was for this.

"WhAt's HAPPeniNG to oUr PLANET?!?!"

This is one of those movies that really needs a re-release with subtitles.
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Jaws happened


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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby KaijuDuke » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:23 am

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Space Hunter M wrote:You're scum! You bastaaarrrd!!! You're worse than I THOOOOOOUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHTTTtttoooOOOhhhhhhhhHHH*splash*


Aww, man, I forgot how amazing the dub was for this.

"WhAt's HAPPeniNG to oUr PLANET?!?!"

This is one of those movies that really needs a re-release with subtitles.



Yeah, that was pretty laughable >_<

Who dubbed the Toho films during the 90s? And who handled the Millennium era films? Toho could definitely benefit from hiring decent voice actors for the English dubs of their films.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Goji » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:36 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote: This is one of those movies that really needs a re-release with subtitles.


There was one. It came out over a year ago.

http://www.tohokingdom.com/blu-ray/godz ... ony14.html

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby kamilleblu » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:01 pm

KaijuDuke wrote:
Who dubbed the Toho films during the 90s? And who handled the Millennium era films? Toho could definitely benefit from hiring decent voice actors for the English dubs of their films.

Since Godzilla vs. Gigan, Godzilla films have used Hong Kong dubs for international releases. After the 1960s, American distributers stopped producing their own dubs. I think the only exceptions to this were G85 and Sony's dub for Godzilla 2000.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:04 pm

Goji wrote:Godzilla vs. Battra Larva is great, and probably one of the more physical skirmish's in the Heisei series, but it's incredibly brief. Not a fan of the "laser light show" during the finale either, or Godzilla carefully grappling the lifeless Mothra marionette. I'll definitely take Godzilla's two battles with Ghidorah in the previous film over those scenes; which are both excellent examples of what was wrong with a lot of the kaiju action sequences in this era.

I thought Battra Larva was cool, I liked the design, mean and spikey, but I really didn't like what they did with the roar, used a damn edited Rodan cry for the roar, I'm sorry, but with such an interesting-looking hell worm, you'd expect something more... cooler, meaner, and unique, but I guess this was another rushed film from the series, so they decided to just say "skreeonk macking a new roar". The rushing probably also explains why it's basically a rehash of the Showa Mothra films too.
All the visible strings are also a bother, but I can get over this, hey, at least it's not Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla's meteors, am I right :freak:
I also hated Godzilla awkwardly grappling the Mothra Larvas face, and throwing it in the most ridiculously bad looking way...

I DID, like I said, enjoy all the battle scenes *minus the strings and awkward Godzilla grappling (It looks horrible when he does the same thing with adult Battra's head)* and I liked when Godzilla struts outta Mt. Fuji too, not gonna lie, I think the fire explosians and lightning was THE poop, but everything else... no so much.

I usually just watch it for the monster scenes, kinda wish Battra's re-emergence wasn't SO abrupt, kinda seemed like it needed one of those classic Godzilla monster explosions, like King Caesar, Gigan, Anguirus (Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla), Mechagodzilla 1974, and Megalon's.
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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:33 am

Goji wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote: This is one of those movies that really needs a re-release with subtitles.


There was one. It came out over a year ago.

http://www.tohokingdom.com/blu-ray/godz ... ony14.html


Oh, right, I think I got it mixed up with the Spacegodzilla/Destoroyah release. I remember one of the two double features lacked subtitles.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Goji » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:23 am

kamilleblu wrote:Since Godzilla vs. Gigan, Godzilla films have used Hong Kong dubs for international releases. After the 1960s, American distributers stopped producing their own dubs. I think the only exceptions to this were G85 and Sony's dub for Godzilla 2000.


Titan's dub for Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster was the last U.S. produced dub for the Showa series.

Prior to Gigan, there were international dubs for Godzilla vs. Hedorah, Ebirah Horror of the Deep, Son of Godzilla, and Destroy All Monsters, but they didn't get released outside the U.S. until much later.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby KaijuDuke » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:53 am

Goji wrote:
kamilleblu wrote:Since Godzilla vs. Gigan, Godzilla films have used Hong Kong dubs for international releases. After the 1960s, American distributers stopped producing their own dubs. I think the only exceptions to this were G85 and Sony's dub for Godzilla 2000.


Titan's dub for Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster was the last U.S. produced dub for the Showa series.

Prior to Gigan, there were international dubs for Godzilla vs. Hedorah, Ebirah Horror of the Deep, Son of Godzilla, and Destroy All Monsters, but they didn't get released outside the U.S. until much later.



I always did think G85 had a better dub than many of the later films, along with Godzilla vs Biollante...Godzilla 2000 however pretty much had a dub on par with the the rest after that despite Sony having a hand in it....KATAGGGGIIIIIRRRRRIIIII!!!!! :shock: :g2k: .... It would be nice if Toho got better English dubs for future Godzilla films, especially since the 2016 film they're planning is supposed to be scary & serious.

Anyway, another issue I have with Godzilla vs Mothra was the whole "Man is ruining nature thing," not just because of how preachy it is, but because of how the cause of all the trouble in the film stemmed from a meteor that fell from space which humanity had NO CONTROL OVER. Godzilla, Battra, & Mothra were not awakened by the folly of man destroying the nature world, they were awakened by a space rock...So the message of the film about protecting the environment isn't even a very good one, its forced actually. I mean yes, the Marutomo Company is said to destroy whole forests, but we don't really see a lot of that & again, the monsters were disturbed by outside forces from space rather than a greedy corporation cutting down the rainforest or something equally awful. As for the company trying to profit off the egg initially & then kidnapping the Cosmos, that certainly showcases greed, but not really a threat to the environment (and I certainly don't see the Cosmos going Captain Planet on anyone, unless you count them summoning Mothra to rescue them, who, again, kills lots of people who had nothing to do with their kidnapping whatsoever, the company president doesn't even get stepped on by a monster in the end or anything, just has a breakdown in his office).

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Goji » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:26 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote: Oh, right, I think I got it mixed up with the Spacegodzilla/Destoroyah release. I remember one of the two double features lacked subtitles.


I mean, none of the Heisei Tristar DVDs from '98 had Japanese language tracks. They were all English only.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Mechagigan » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:00 pm

KaijuDuke wrote:I mean yes, the Marutomo Company is said to destroy whole forests, but we don't really see a lot of that & again, the monsters were disturbed by outside forces from space rather than a greedy corporation cutting down the rainforest or something equally awful. As for the company trying to profit off the egg initially & then kidnapping the Cosmos, that certainly showcases greed, but not really a threat to the environment (and I certainly don't see the Cosmos going Captain Planet on anyone, unless you count them summoning Mothra to rescue them, who, again, kills lots of people who had nothing to do with their kidnapping whatsoever, the company president doesn't even get stepped on by a monster in the end or anything, just has a breakdown in his office).

I felt like the 'bad guys' weren't very strong, too... last time I watched it, it felt like they were just doing their job. It's may not exactly be right to do what they were doing, but let's face it, it has to happen (especially with the way society grows). They aren't nearly as rude and mean-spirited as the businessmen in the original MvG, either, so it's harder to believe that these guys are real enemies.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:02 pm

If anything, this movie taught me that if you're ever having family issues, just help two bugs fight a radioactive zombie dinosaur, and everything will be OK.
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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Mechagigan » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:18 pm

Lain Of The Wired wrote:If anything, this movie taught me that if you're ever having family issues, just help two bugs fight a radioactive zombie dinosaur, and everything will be OK.

I learned that the easiest way to make money after being divorced is to become Indiana Jones.

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby edgaguirus » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:50 pm

Lain Of The Wired wrote:If anything, this movie taught me that if you're ever having family issues, just help two bugs fight a radioactive zombie dinosaur, and everything will be OK.


Just be sure causing untold death and destruction doesn't bother you.

A agree on the human villains. They seemed more petulant than evil, especially the guy in charge.
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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby M.o.g.u.e.r.a14 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:02 pm

So, was Battra a bad guy in the first place or did he turn him good when Mothra showed a sign of friendship above the water?
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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby KaijuDuke » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:41 pm

M.o.g.u.e.r.a14 wrote:So, was Battra a bad guy in the first place or did he turn him good when Mothra showed a sign of friendship above the water?



The story goes that Battra was created by the spirit of the earth, insert Captain Planet joke here, to defend against those who would harm & seek to control the earth, HOWEVER, Battra was so zealous at his job that he became a threat himself, or was going too far in his mission (its been a while since I suffered through this one lol). SO, earth spirit created Mothra to stop Battra & basically be a less kill crazy guardian of the environment...So yeah, Battra is basically a darker, edgier version of Mothra, but apparently being saved by her once was enough to put an end to their age long rivalry (that & the threat of impending death at the hands of a radioactive dinokaiju lol).

I think Battra's origin would have made more sense if he....

1) Had been a "fallen mothra" of sorts rather than a giant sized planeteer, one consumed by anger & hate towards humanity & transformed by it. Mothra is a goddess, Battra is a demon.

2) Been female instead of male, so that the whole dark counterpart to Mothra thing would have made more sense, & so that she could have an ongoing bloodline like Mothra (and cut out that earth spirit silliness). This also would have explained why Battra was shown as an adult in the cave painting but was a larva again when it resurfaced millions of years later "shrugs"

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Re: Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

Postby Mr. Xeno » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:05 pm

M.o.g.u.e.r.a14 wrote:So, was Battra a bad guy in the first place or did he turn him good when Mothra showed a sign of friendship above the water?

Neither, really. Battra is basically chaotic neutral. He doesn't give a skreeonk about killing a few thousand of those awful planet-destroying humans, but he still cares about the Earth as a whole, hence why it's directly said that Battra was originally going to be the one to stop the meteor in 1999.
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