So who actually likes the Heisei series?

[Gojira1963]

Started with Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster actually

Good point, you're right.

[Goji]

I'm being "defensive" because what you're saying either doesn't really make any sense ("the better SPX of the Heisei" series), or simply isn't true (Godzilla was a "hero" In MONSTER ZERO? No).

Godzilla slowly began to be the Hero in Invasion of the Astro-Monster.

No, he didn't. He was under control throughout the entire film, up until the end. He (and Rodan) had beef with Ghidorah, which is why they clashed, even after becoming self aware. Where does 'defending Japan' come into play here? It doesn't.

In the Island films Godzilla is not depicted as a seriouis bad guy.

Okay, and? This suddenly means he's a "good guy", or a "hero"?

[Gojira1963]

I'm being "defensive" because what you're saying either doesn't really make any sense ("the better SPX of the Heisei" series), or simply isn't true (Godzilla was a "hero" In MONSTER ZERO? No).

Godzilla slowly began to be the Hero in Invasion of the Astro-Monster.

No, he didn't. He was under control throughout the entire film, up until the end. He (and Rodan) had beef with Ghidorah, which is why they clashed, even after becoming self aware. Where does 'defending Japan' come into play here? It doesn't.

In the Island films Godzilla is not depicted as a seriouis bad guy.

Okay, and? This suddenly means he's a "good guy", or a "hero"?

What I say doesn't have to make sense to anyone but myself. That is why these are personal opinions. I enjoy discussing things but in the spirit of fun and I do not mean to make anyone defensive.

By the start of Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster Godzilla was becoming a force for Good even if it was unwillingly. He was no longer the monster that was a force of nature that was attacking Japan.

He might not have been labeled a hero in these films but the slow progressing toward being the good guy began with those earlier Showa films.

[SaferEmerald]

I'm being "defensive" because what you're saying either doesn't really make any sense ("the better SPX of the Heisei" series), or simply isn't true (Godzilla was a "hero" In MONSTER ZERO? No).

Godzilla slowly began to be the Hero in Invasion of the Astro-Monster.

No, he didn't. He was under control throughout the entire film, up until the end. He (and Rodan) had beef with Ghidorah, which is why they clashed, even after becoming self aware. Where does 'defending Japan' come into play here? It doesn't.

In the Island films Godzilla is not depicted as a seriouis bad guy.

Okay, and? This suddenly means he's a "good guy", or a "hero"?

The last one is open to interpretation, but it was certainly the vibe he was giving off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nLIV9uQtLM

Making him more approachable to children

[Goji]

What I say doesn't have to make sense to anyone but myself.

Then why are you posting on an internet message board?

By the start of Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster Godzilla was becoming a force for Good even if it was unwillingly. He was no longer the monster that was a force of nature that was attacking Japan.

Except that, you know, Godzilla is introduced via him destroying an ocean liner, and then reaching land, and attacking Japan before King Ghidorah is even born.

He might not have been labeled a hero in these films but the slow progressing toward being the good guy began with those earlier Showa films.

Yes, this is true. You finally said something that makes sense! *corks wine*

[Gojira1963]

Then why are you posting on an internet message board?

To discuss topics and share differences of opinions. It would be very boring around here if we all thought the same.

Except that, you know, Godzilla is introduced via him destroying an ocean liner, and then reaching land, and attacking Japan before King Ghidorah is even born.

As I said this movie begins the process of Godzilla being used as a force for Good. In this movie he defends the earth even though he is reluctant at first.

Yes, this is true. You finally said something that makes sense! *corks wine*

Thank you.

[Goji]

To discuss topics and share differences of opinions. It would be very boring around here if we all thought the same.

You don't seem to understand what I'm getting at here.

This is the second time you've said "what I say only has to make sense to anyone but myself" as a defense for why you like what you like. This is not critical thinking. It's a cop out response.

What I'm suggesting is that you may as well not be posting on a message board if you can't illustrate why you like something, and are only going to reply with- "well it makes sense to me, sooo, there"-type of responses. You following me?

[Gojira1963]

To discuss topics and share differences of opinions. It would be very boring around here if we all thought the same.

You don't seem to understand what I'm getting at here.

This is the second time you've said "what I say only has to make sense to anyone but myself" as a defense for why you like what you like. This is not critical thinking. It's a cop out response.

What I'm suggesting is that you may as well not be posting on a message board if you can't illustrate why you like something, and are only going to reply with- "well it makes sense to me, sooo, there"-type of responses. You following me?

I understand what you're saying. I do see a distinction between a dicussion about facts verses a discussion about opinions. If I say I like The Heisei Series better that is my opinion. Sure, I can try to justify that opinion but as a mental health counselor I shy away from justification of opinions because they are not really necessary.

For example, I like the design of the Heisei suit better than the Showa suit because to me the Showa suit in the mid 60s and 70s was too muppet like and cartoony. If someone likes the Showa suit and disagrees with me does that make either of us wrong or do we just have a difference of opinion?


Facts can be debated because we can even interpret facts differently.

[Carthormerr]

By the start of Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster Godzilla was becoming a force for Good even if it was unwillingly. He was no longer the monster that was a force of nature that was attacking Japan.

He might not have been labeled a hero in these films but the slow progressing toward being the good guy began with those earlier Showa films.

You're right Gojira1963. It's not that he was a strict hero right then, but everyone knows that was when it all started, and he was regarded in a friendlier and friendlier light from then on (aside from being controlled by frickin aliens which is an exception). People really like to word dissect.

[eabaker]

To discuss topics and share differences of opinions. It would be very boring around here if we all thought the same.

You don't seem to understand what I'm getting at here.

This is the second time you've said "what I say only has to make sense to anyone but myself" as a defense for why you like what you like. This is not critical thinking. It's a cop out response.

What I'm suggesting is that you may as well not be posting on a message board if you can't illustrate why you like something, and are only going to reply with- "well it makes sense to me, sooo, there"-type of responses. You following me?

I understand what you're saying. I do see a distinction between a dicussion about facts verses a discussion about opinions. If I say I like The Heisei Series better that is my opinion. Sure, I can try to justify that opinion but as a mental health counselor I shy away from justification of opinions because they are not really necessary.

Well, none oft he covnersations on this board are necessary. It's nto about necessity, it's about building and maintaining a friendly environment in which to discuss our opinions.

The only issue here is this: when discussing our opinions of movies, we all use facts about those movies to explain our perspectives. The opinions cannot be questioned, but the facts can.

It seems like, when you are questioned about the facts that you cite, you tend to rush to, "It's just my opinion."

At the same time, so of the other posters here can be a little harsh when someone doesn't agree with them, so I'm certainly not trying to say that you're in the wrong here.

Just that we could all maybe be a little more constructive in the flow of our back-and-forth (and I count myself in that; I can be a real prick sometimes).

[Gojira1963]

^ I understand and in the future will offer more information on why I like the things that I do.

[Goji]

At the same time, so of the other posters here can be a little harsh when someone doesn't agree with them, so I'm certainly not trying to say that you're in the wrong here.

Just that we could all maybe be a little more constructive in the flow of our back-and-forth (and I count myself in that; I can be a real prick sometimes).

Yeah, that's all me. Sorry about that. I tend to get annoyed when I get childish responses from fellow "adult" fans. I just find it kind of obnoxious.

For the record, I haven't seen any instances of you being a prick, eabaker. You're a hell of a lot more civil than I am, and have a much more constructive (and polite) way of tearing down people's nonsense.

[eabaker]

At the same time, so of the other posters here can be a little harsh when someone doesn't agree with them, so I'm certainly not trying to say that you're in the wrong here.

Just that we could all maybe be a little more constructive in the flow of our back-and-forth (and I count myself in that; I can be a real prick sometimes).

Yeah, that's all me. Sorry about that. I tend to get annoyed when I get childish responses from fellow "adult" fans. I just find it kind of obnoxious.

For the record, I haven't seen any instances of you being a prick, eabaker. You're a hell of a lot more civil than I am, and have a much more constructive (and polite) way of tearing down people's nonsense.

I've lost my cool a few times in the Godzilla Final Wars thread, and I've made some fairly rash statements in various General Discussion topics (though most of those I've edited into oblivion - I go back and edit myself a fair amount).

Now, go back in time to 1997, and you'll find me being a total jackass all over the Godzilla.com boards.

[Captain Aktion]

^Pfft. We're Godzilla fans. It's almost mandatory that we put our proverbial feet in our mouths. Now, if you can acknowledge that you've done so; that's a different tale for a different time...

[eabaker]

^Pfft. We're Godzilla fans. It's almost mandatory that we put our proverbial feet in our mouths. Now, if you can acknowledge that you've done so; that's a different tale for a different time...

"The reckless ambitions of Man are often dwarfed by their dangerous consequences."

[SaferEmerald]

Those are hardly campy at all. Not to mention, which version of KKvsG did you watch?

US version.

And wut

You have the Pharmaceutical company guy in KKvG, Godzilla wagging his tail for KK to grab, Godzilla clapping after KK rolls his way into bonking his head, definitely the first kiddy fight in the series.
Vs. The Smog Monster, flying Godzilla, cartoons, etc.
As for Invasion of the Astro-Monster, please see the video I posted earlier.
Ghidorah has the whole silly princess and secret agent thing going on.

I take back DAM though, that movie was actually pretty brutal thinking about it now.

[Captain Aktion]

Can I just point out that anything that plays to a genre could be viewed as campy pretty much %100 of the time? And if it tries to not be "campy" or tries to play up that "campiness" purposefully, it's often viewed as boring or a failure from a fan standpoint. For purposes of this discussion, I point to Return of Godzilla and Final Wars as the obvious examples.

I think successful camp is pretty much kismet; an accidental conglomeration of content. Something you can't just set out to make or even consciously avoid. In some ways, the Bat-Nolan films are even MORE campy for how much they try to...sidestep the inherent camp, but few people would see it that way. It's a matter of perspective.

[Titanomajin]

I love the Versus series, Godzilla vs Biollante is my second favorite Godzilla film of all time!

[Goji]

I love how camp in tokusatsu apparently means it's "kiddy".

[Gojira1963]

I only see movies such as Megalon and Gigan as campy...oops and Godzilla's Revenge. A less serious tone is not synonymous with camp.