GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Saansilt » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:10 am

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby KManX89 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:21 pm

Godzillian wrote:Never bought the argument "if this movie wasn't called Godzilla it would be great!!!" No, it would still be a terrible movie.


Same. I mean, calling it Giant Iguana Thing or whatever the skreeonk wouldn't fix the gazillion plot holes (he can outrun choppers, but can't outrun a taxi? And he can fit in a sewer at 200+ feet tall, yet can't fit through a tunnel? A human pregnancy test working on an iguana from a pharmacy that's still open after said giant iguana was just running through the city? The military constantly losing sight of said 200+ foot tall iguana? And countless others), annoying characters, horrid pacing and dialog, shitty CGI (they constantly keep GINO in the dark/rain to cover up how bad the CGI was) and not that great of action scenes (again, he just runs away from poop while the military keeps missing all 200+ feet of him because they're idiots; tell me again how that's entertaining?), though it would sting less.

RLM are not wrong when they said this movie doesn't get anything right.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Living Corpse » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:57 pm

You know what is sad is D&E literally had the easiest adaption on their hands. They already made a movie where big scary things blow up cities with blue death rays and are impossible to take down with our weapons including nukes, just replace them with a pissed off dinosaur. That computer virus that they used to take down the aliens force-fields? Change it to a biological man made virus that weakens Godzilla and forces him back into the ocean.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Jetty_Jags » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:57 am

As I’ve said in other threads upon a recent reviewing, I can’t find myself to hate this movie as much as I used to. Are the bad parts bad, yes. I can’t take Broderick seriously, and he is fairly miscast, the movie has no attempt in hiding the fact it wants to be Jurassic park (which is part of the reason it fails to be a Godzilla film, the score and tone want to create awe in the sense of wonder instead of terror), the dialogue and plot are beyond stupid at times, and the effects are quite dated. But somehow I just don’t hate this film. At most I’m mildly amused at it, and while it’s definitely misbranded as a Godzilla film, I do find some stupid enjoyment in it. And as far as quality goes it’s definitely no where near as good as some of the best legit Goji films, however it’s not much worse than some of the worst goji movies (in terms of quality of film). While I may enjoy final wars more just for its over the top ridiculousness, I can’t say this film is objectively worse as a movie, in fact it might be better (I think the first thirty minutes actually do a decent job to set up the film).
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:47 am

^ I dunno, man. I can think of maybe five movies that I hate more, and enjoy watching less, than Godzilla '98. I was too young to be part of the initial backlash when the movie came out, but I grew to hate it after having to explain to my friends and peers a thousand times that it's not a good representation of the Godzilla franchise. Do I hate it as much as I used to? No, I guess not, but I still hate it.

I do agree that Godzilla '98 isn't the worst movie in the Godzilla franchise by that much... but it's still the worst movie in the Godzilla franchise. It may only be marginally worse than Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla and the anime trilogy, but it's still worse.

I'm glad you brought up Final Wars, because there are plenty of comparisons to be drawn between the two. They're both overly long, both seem to derive more from American sci-fi films than the classic Godzilla films and both have convoluted plots and horrible acting. I don't know if I can really make an argument that GFW is an objectively better film; all I can say is that I loved Final Wars as a kid, so it holds nostalgia value for me, whereas I always hated Godzilla '98, even when I was six, so the movie holds no value for me whatsoever.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:48 am

KManX89 wrote:A human pregnancy test working on an iguana from a pharmacy that's still open after said giant iguana was just running through the city?


To be fair, that pharmacy was outside Manhattan's limits.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Jetty_Jags » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:16 pm

There's no denying that the '98 film is one of the worst Goji films. However I want to, for the sake of argument, distinguish being a good Goji film and being a good film. Now before I get ahead of myself, I don't think this is even a good film, even after stripping the expectations of a Goji film, but I also can't honestly say some of the worst heisei films are objectively better films. And in many instances they suffer in similar regards, goofy nonsensical plots, hammy dialogue, sub-par effects, etc.

So while I understand a lot of disgust for this film comes from the mis-branding, the flaws it has as a film alone, are not unique to this movie, and do permeate through the worst godzilla movies regardless. And from this point of view, removing any contempt for being a bad Goji film, I can find this film enjoyable as a caricature of 90s blockbusters, not that its a good film, but that it is so desperate in attempting to be a 90s blockbuster, it practically parodies itself.

On the other hand, I don't want to force anyone to not hate the movie, I more than understand the disgust for this movie's impact on the public perception of godzilla. And clearly the root of this problem stems from the filmmakers having no care or intent on understanding what the character represents. On an interesting note, when re watching the film, I truly saw how the desire to be a Jurassic park movie (or even just standard 90s american blockbuster) neuters this film.

When the film starts, I actually think it does a half decent job of at least imitating Japanese Kaiju films, especially regarding the build up of the monster. And while it could benefit from cutting down on the one liners, and recasting Broderick, it has a decent start. But where the movie really first misses the mark is the "that's a lot of fish scene", with the biggest offender being the score. Foreshadowing the entire second act, this scene cements the movie's desire to be Jurassic Park, starting with the music.

Unlike a majority of Godzilla's musical accompaniments the score is much less imposing, and much more whimsical, emulating the creation of awe in the likes of Jurassic Park. So instead of using the music to convey scale, destruction, and power, it asks the viewer to gaze in beauty much like the scene where the audience first witnesses the Brontosaurs in JP. It invites the audience to be amazed by the spectacle and gracefulness of the creature, which may work for other kaiju (Mothra fits this archetype quite well), it is the antithesis of what Godzilla represents. Thus long story short, while the movie gets off on a decent start, as soon as it shows its true colors in imitating Spielberg, it throws away any chance of doing the godzilla character justice, which can be seen all the way to the musical components of the film.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby scottzilla » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:58 am

It's on Netflix right now. I put it on for my 3 and 5 year old to watch. 5 year old says "it kind of looks like Godzilla". 3 year old says "yeah but it's not".

It's not a bad movie and I actually quite enjoy it, but that CGI has not aged well.

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby JAGzilla » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:16 am

The CGI is a common complaint levelled at this movie, but let's not be hypocrites, here. Much as we love them, it's not like a lot of Showa-era practical effects hold up to this day. Some do, certainly, but not all. But we give them a pass because they were made in a different time. So was GINO: twenty-two years(!) is a long time ago by CGI standards; the technology was still in its infancy, and not every film could be Jurassic Park.

And at least some of it was quite impressive for its time, as compared to what was possible with traditional practical effects. For example, I remember when we got home from the theater, my dad (a lifelong casual G-Fan) was on the phone with his mom, telling her about the movie, and while he had some comments about the monster not looking like Godzilla, he did point out some cool things they did with the CGI. Small details like Godzilla's tail dragging across buildings as he goes around corners, tearing individual bricks out of the walls. And some of those shots were and are cool, but we just don't acknowledge them because of the movie they're in.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:42 pm

JAGzilla wrote:The CGI is a common complaint levelled at this movie, but let's not be hypocrites, here. Much as we love them, it's not like a lot of Showa-era practical effects hold up to this day. Some do, certainly, but not all. But we give them a pass because they were made in a different time.


No, we give them a pass because they're trying two completely different things.

The Showa special effects were not attempts at portraying realistic monsters in a realistic world. Tsuburaya and co. were much more interested in providing a fantasy escapism for audiences more than anything. For example, when asked why Tsuburaya did not just use a rear-projection or composite effect for the infamous horse in Frankenstein Conquers the World, he said that using a model "was more fun". The puppets, suits, etc. are not the result of the effects team trying and failing to realistically portray the stories, they are just using the means they know best.

G98, on the other hand, is trying to make it seem as if Godzilla is actually there. Same for its practical effects. There's an air of "realism" applied to the techniques. They're replicating, not presenting.

Both are trying to be two different things and to compare them is asinine.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:28 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:The CGI is a common complaint levelled at this movie, but let's not be hypocrites, here. Much as we love them, it's not like a lot of Showa-era practical effects hold up to this day. Some do, certainly, but not all. But we give them a pass because they were made in a different time.


No, we give them a pass because they're trying two completely different things.

The Showa special effects were not attempts at portraying realistic monsters in a realistic world. Tsuburaya and co. were much more interested in providing a fantasy escapism for audiences more than anything. For example, when asked why Tsuburaya did not just use a rear-projection or composite effect for the infamous horse in Frankenstein Conquers the World, he said that using a model "was more fun". The puppets, suits, etc. are not the result of the effects team trying and failing to realistically portray the stories, they are just using the means they know best.

G98, on the other hand, is trying to make it seem as if Godzilla is actually there. Same for its practical effects. There's an air of "realism" applied to the techniques. They're replicating, not presenting.

Both are trying to be two different things and to compare them is asinine.


skreeonking thank you. I hate this argument so much and you broke down why it's bullshit perfectly.

Also, if I may add my $0.02, even by the standards of IT'S time, 1998 has underwhelming effects.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Ryu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:56 pm

However, in Japan, critics love the special effects that people hate so much. And the special effects of toho are obsolete. Not to mention people who were not fans, love the movie.
It has the video as proof.
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23808666
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 pm

Ryu wrote:However, in Japan, critics love the special effects that people hate so much. And the special effects of toho are obsolete. Not to mention people who were not fans, love the movie.
It has the video as proof.
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23808666

To be honest, I don't think Japanese people liking big dumb American things is an indication of anything, or surprising. There's plenty of people here OBSESSED with WILD SPEED (the Fast and the Furious Franchise).

Also, Ryu, I'll respond to your pm within the day, I read it, got busy and forgot! Sorry!
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:07 pm

Ryu wrote:And the special effects of toho are obsolete.


An equally asinine statement considering those so-called "obsolete" effects methods are still in use today in many Japanese media.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Ryu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:14 pm

No problem, LSD Jellyfish.
Because it's cheap, UltramanGoji.
I know, because the studios had hollywood money, they were using computer effects. But they don't have those capabilities.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:16 pm

Ryu wrote:Because it's cheap, UltramanGoji.


...And?

Who cares how much money it costs? Computer effects can be downloaded for free off the internet. Guess that makes them obsolete since they're available for free. What an idiotic statement.

Ryu wrote:I know, because the studios had hollywood money, they were using computer effects. But they don't have those capabilities.


And because they don't, they have way more interesting visual effects styles because they're not part of the dime-a-dozen other studios utilizing computer graphics.

I don't understand this stupid revisionist history surrounding the Toho films and quite frankly, it's becoming very irritating to see these films and the talent that went into making them be put down because some guy knows how to download Zbrush.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Ryu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:33 pm

First of all, UltramanGoji, I didn't insult you. And I ask you not to insult me.
And yes, people have the right to see and analyze and criticize toho's films. Of all its splendor and bankruptcy. Since the days of tsuburaya glory. Stock footage Jun Fukuda. And tragic flopp in the history of cinema, of the Terror of mechagodzilla, his reaction and goodbye to ishiro honda to the genre. Unless you are one of them, you don't want to know the Japanese history and culture of the time. And you start doing topics like Roland Raped Our Childhood.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:59 pm

I think it's worth noting that during the Jun Fukuda era of the Godzilla series, Toho produced some of the biggest and impressive disaster films like Submersion of Japan, which still by todays standards, and that films contemporary standards, are impressive. What happened with the Godzilla series is Toho saw films like Gamera vs. Viras make money off of stock footage, saw they could do the same, and shifted the large scale budgets for the Godzilla films towards the disaster flicks and other films (House 1977, which was a huge hit). Godzilla died down due to competition with Ultraman essentially.

Likewise, I think 1998 does have some impressive special affects stuff and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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I think the films issue is what they chose to do with it.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby Ryu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:05 pm

Yes. I know the LSD Jellyfish story. It was thanks to the blunova youtuber. It was a crisis of Japanese cinema as well, for the last films to have little success.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:53 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Likewise, I think 1998 does have some impressive special affects stuff and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.


Oh, yeah. My initail post was supposed to be fairly neutral regarding the whole "has the CGI aged well" debate and I love the animatronics used in this film.
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