Toho Kingdom

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:Real talk, I'm actually kinda glad Godzilla 1998 got made. Movie failed on nearly every level but it helped the franchise by giving a standard future films had to avoid and pushing Toho to start the Millenium era to try and fix the mistake. Kind of like how X Men Orgins blew but people wanting to do better gave us the Deadpool films.

The Debont version just might have set a new standard on its own, not to avoid, but the other way around.

Yet again, I seriously doubt that…

I honestly find it funny how reverse from each other the 94 script and G98 are: the G94 script had a rather strange origin story but got everything else about Godzilla's design and character right, while G98 actually kept the nuclear/atomic element (granted, he/she/it/ is an iguana instead of a prehistoric reptile/dinosaur but still) but completely missed the point and fucked up everything else, including Godzilla's character and design along with a terrible story

(Also, I read somewhere that before the Gryphon was created as an idea, the original plan Elliott and Rossio had was to use Ghidorah. How true is this?)

^The 94 script did maintain some nuclear elements did it not? I mean, it still stated that Godzilla himself is a living nuclear reactor and he did feed on radiation.

LegendZilla wrote:^The 94 script did maintain some nuclear elements did it not? I mean, it still stated that Godzilla himself is a living nuclear reactor and he did feed on radiation.

That's true, the script does mention explicitly that Godzilla does not breath fire and works like a living reactor. I was more referring to the origin (him being genetically creates by aliens), though I guess you could say the element is still there.

Imo the fact that G98 retains the nuclear origin element doesn't even matter, as it completely misses the point

Dv-218 wrote:

LegendZilla wrote:^The 94 script did maintain some nuclear elements did it not? I mean, it still stated that Godzilla himself is a living nuclear reactor and he did feed on radiation.

That's true, the script does mention explicitly that Godzilla does not breath fire and works like a living reactor. I was more referring to the origin (him being genetically creates by aliens), though I guess you could say it's similar to 2014 (the difference is that one naturally evolved by radiation, while the other was artificially created using radiation).

Imo the fact that G98 retains the nuclear origin element doesn't even matter, as it completely misses the point

Godzilla did not breath fire in the Debont script?!

No apperantly, it's stated to be an atomic blast/atomic ray in the script. Basically, the typical atomic breath.
De bont knew what's up lol.

Dv-218 wrote: (Also, I read somewhere that before the Gryphon was created as an idea, the original plan Elliott and Rossio had was to use Ghidorah. How true is this?)

It’s true, both Rossio and Elliot confirmed it

Terry Rossio confirmed that was indeed his and Elliott’s intent. “We originally wanted to have Godzilla fight King Ghidorah,” he said, but Toho’s popular three-headed space monster was off-limits.3

Ted Elliott provided additional details. “It turned out that our contract specifically stated that we could use any monsters from the Godzilla family of monsters except Rodan, Mothra, or King Ghidorah. I’m sure Toho believes they can license those individually, so they didn’t include them in the Godzilla license,” he revealed. “We were left coming up with our own guy. Let’s see how that works. I think thematically he works a little bit better than Ghidorah would have.”4

Dv-218 wrote:No apperantly, it's stated to be an atomic blast/atomic ray in the script. Basically, the typical atomic breath.
De bont knew what's up lol.

Sort of. It was described as “not really fire ... something so hot it ionizes the oxygen molecules in the air” and it was supposed to start a few feet away from Godzilla’s mouth. Other than that, it was basically the same as Godzilla’s breath - a distinct stream of “fire”, “almost white-hot” in color.

If the Debont film was made, would’ve the changes made to Godzilla been just as controversal?

LegendZilla wrote:If the Debont film was made, would’ve the changes made to Godzilla been just as controversal?

Probably to people who get buttmad about every little stray from the norm, but no, not as bad as GINO.

LegendZilla wrote:If the Debont film was made, would’ve the changes made to Godzilla been just as controversal?

You'd have a number of people complaining about the alien/precursor origin, and you'd definitely have a few complaining about the scenes where he skitters around on all fours (that is, if those scenes are kept; while the script and the Delgado design have him occasionally dropping to all fours, I have a hard time seeing the Winston/McCreery design doing the same thing), but you definitely wouldn't see the almost fandom-wide rejection of the film.

As for the average moviegoer, the script and characters are far more engaging than G'98, and the effects scenes would have been a real spectacle, so I imagine it gets better word-of-mouth and better audience attendance, and as a result better financial performance.

G2000 wrote:

Dv-218 wrote: (Also, I read somewhere that before the Gryphon was created as an idea, the original plan Elliott and Rossio had was to use Ghidorah. How true is this?)

It’s true, both Rossio and Elliot confirmed it

Terry Rossio confirmed that was indeed his and Elliott’s intent. “We originally wanted to have Godzilla fight King Ghidorah,” he said, but Toho’s popular three-headed space monster was off-limits.3

Ted Elliott provided additional details. “It turned out that our contract specifically stated that we could use any monsters from the Godzilla family of monsters except Rodan, Mothra, or King Ghidorah. I’m sure Toho believes they can license those individually, so they didn’t include them in the Godzilla license,” he revealed. “We were left coming up with our own guy. Let’s see how that works. I think thematically he works a little bit better than Ghidorah would have.”4

Dv-218 wrote:No apperantly, it's stated to be an atomic blast/atomic ray in the script. Basically, the typical atomic breath.
De bont knew what's up lol.

Sort of. It was described as “not really fire ... something so hot it ionizes the oxygen molecules in the air” and it was supposed to start a few feet away from Godzilla’s mouth. Other than that, it was basically the same as Godzilla’s breath - a distinct stream of “fire”, “almost white-hot” in color.

Huh, interesting...I kinda had the suspicion it was the case due to the Gryphon's alien origin and the 3 headed snake tongue, but never actually saw a confirmation. Nice bit of info.

Imo I imagine the fanbase would have had problem with the alien origin thing, but not to the extent of 98 due to the titular creature looking and acting like Godzilla.
Personally, I don't mind a Godzilla with more movability, as long as the core traiths are intact.

I wish the alien origin would have been reworked a little, like maybe the aliens were in Japan around the 40’s when they begin trying to create their monster, only for it to not wake up when they attempted to activate him, only for the bomb being dropped to work as a catalyst.

Well there is no denying that the cartoon this movie spawned was a vast improvement, but had the Debont movie been made, chances are we could’ve gotten an even better animated spin-off.

My Uncle loves the 1998 film and LOVES to push my buttons by saying it's superior to the 2014 film. All fun and games, but I will give him this. Jean Reno is probably one of the good things about this film I can count on one hand. Other than the origin being 90% correct, the musical score and the practical effects (CGI is pretty bad, even for the time.)

Gojira18 wrote: Other than the origin being 90% correct, the musical score and the practical effects (CGI is pretty bad, even for the time.)

A French iguana being radiated by bomb tests is 90% correct with a prehistoric dinosaur being awoken and mutated by nuclear tests in Japanese waters?

I'd say they got the bomb part correct but I mean, that's about it haha.

Maritonic wrote:

Gojira18 wrote: Other than the origin being 90% correct, the musical score and the practical effects (CGI is pretty bad, even for the time.)

A French iguana being radiated by bomb tests is 90% correct with a prehistoric dinosaur being awoken and mutated by nuclear tests in Japanese waters?

I'd say they got the bomb part correct but I mean, that's about it haha.

I'm feeling generous today. He was the product of nuclear fallout and Man's folly, but yeah the iguana thing throws it off. At least it's a reptile, still.

I mean... outside of Heisei, we don't technically know that most Godzilla incarnations didn't start out as iguanas...

JAGzilla wrote:I mean... outside of Heisei, we don't technically know that most Godzilla incarnations didn't start out as iguanas...

Memory serves me correctly, they basically say Godzilla is a prehistoric dinosaur in Gojira/Raids Again. Again, if memory serves.

Maritonic wrote:

JAGzilla wrote:I mean... outside of Heisei, we don't technically know that most Godzilla incarnations didn't start out as iguanas...

Memory serves me correctly, they basically say Godzilla is a prehistoric dinosaur in Gojira/Raids Again. Again, if memory serves.

They didn't specifically say dinosaur. They said a prehistoric reptile that's a "link" to the land and the sea. Anguirus IS pointed out as a dinosaur.