GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

[LSD Jellyfish]

However, in Japan, critics love the special effects that people hate so much. And the special effects of toho are obsolete. Not to mention people who were not fans, love the movie.
It has the video as proof.
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23808666

To be honest, I don't think Japanese people liking big dumb American things is an indication of anything, or surprising. There's plenty of people here OBSESSED with WILD SPEED (the Fast and the Furious Franchise).

Also, Ryu, I'll respond to your pm within the day, I read it, got busy and forgot! Sorry!

[UltramanGoji]

And the special effects of toho are obsolete.

An equally asinine statement considering those so-called "obsolete" effects methods are still in use today in many Japanese media.

[Ryu]

No problem, LSD Jellyfish.
Because it's cheap, UltramanGoji.
I know, because the studios had hollywood money, they were using computer effects. But they don't have those capabilities.

[UltramanGoji]

Because it's cheap, UltramanGoji.

...And?

Who cares how much money it costs? Computer effects can be downloaded for free off the internet. Guess that makes them obsolete since they're available for free. What an idiotic statement.

I know, because the studios had hollywood money, they were using computer effects. But they don't have those capabilities.

And because they don't, they have way more interesting visual effects styles because they're not part of the dime-a-dozen other studios utilizing computer graphics.

I don't understand this stupid revisionist history surrounding the Toho films and quite frankly, it's becoming very irritating to see these films and the talent that went into making them be put down because some guy knows how to download Zbrush.

[Ryu]

First of all, UltramanGoji, I didn't insult you. And I ask you not to insult me.
And yes, people have the right to see and analyze and criticize toho's films. Of all its splendor and bankruptcy. Since the days of tsuburaya glory. Stock footage Jun Fukuda. And tragic flopp in the history of cinema, of the Terror of mechagodzilla, his reaction and goodbye to ishiro honda to the genre. Unless you are one of them, you don't want to know the Japanese history and culture of the time. And you start doing topics like Roland Raped Our Childhood.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I think it's worth noting that during the Jun Fukuda era of the Godzilla series, Toho produced some of the biggest and impressive disaster films like Submersion of Japan, which still by todays standards, and that films contemporary standards, are impressive. What happened with the Godzilla series is Toho saw films like Gamera vs. Viras make money off of stock footage, saw they could do the same, and shifted the large scale budgets for the Godzilla films towards the disaster flicks and other films (House 1977, which was a huge hit). Godzilla died down due to competition with Ultraman essentially.

Likewise, I think 1998 does have some impressive special affects stuff and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



I think the films issue is what they chose to do with it.

[Ryu]

Yes. I know the LSD Jellyfish story. It was thanks to the blunova youtuber. It was a crisis of Japanese cinema as well, for the last films to have little success.

[UltramanGoji]

Likewise, I think 1998 does have some impressive special affects stuff and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Oh, yeah. My initail post was supposed to be fairly neutral regarding the whole "has the CGI aged well" debate and I love the animatronics used in this film.

[Chrispy_G]

I always find myself thinking about how utterly and completely this movie going a different way could have altered the trajectory of the franchise and quite possibly a bit of a different course for where blockbuster cinema headed in the 00s.

Picture this, the Elliot & Rossio script gets made....more or less true to what it is. Assuming it gets all of the same ultra-hype and ultra-marketing and promotion and tie-ins and etc....and is actually a GREAT movie that pleases the fans and the casuals alike.

The Millennium series probably never happens because that movie probably spawns the trilogy/3 film deal that Sony/Toho agreed to. So we get 2 Godzilla sequels from 2000-2003. Maybe in 2000 and 20002.

The animated spin-off series is a spin-off of THAT movie...and so while animation and aesthetics would be similar, the Godzilla design would be more traditional and who knows....maybe being a spin-off of a much better movie leads to that show being a much bigger hit and continuing on for a lot longer.

Maybe then, Toho brings Japanese Godzilla BACK in 2004 for the 50th anniversary.

Perhaps the success would have led to a big Giant Monster Reboot boom. Mighty Joe Young already happened because of G98, maybe Universal pushes through with a version of Peter Jackson's King Kong...with or without him. Maybe the superhero boom spawned by X-Men and Spider-Man doesn't pan out the same way?

[JAGzilla]

^ It is interesting to contemplate. The Butterfly Effect is a powerful thing, and maybe it is a tragedy that this particular butterfly ran into a bug zapper. Who knows, though; there's always the possibility that something even worse could've happened. What if the '98 movie had merely been mediocre? Say it didn't make much of a profit, critics and audiences alike were left lukewarm, and it just made no real impact at all outside the hardcore fandom. There wouldn't have been enough incentive to make sequels, but Toho wouldn't have been horrified enough to rush into a course correction. Maybe the whole franchise would've just... fizzled out right there. Not likely, of course, but it's possible.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Great break down of it Chrispy but

The Millennium series probably never happens because that movie probably spawns the trilogy/3 film deal that Sony/Toho agreed to. So we get 2 Godzilla sequels from 2000-2003. Maybe in 2000 and 20002.

You're not giving Toho enough credit. They'd totally jump on a chance to cross brand.

Our icons are examples of that

[Dv-218]

Yeah, Toho would have capitalized on the assumed success of the Tristar trilogy either way lol. Maybe later than 2000, but stuff like the Millenium series or maybe even anime films could have still occured in this timeline. They'll jump at any chance to further the brand's popularity after all.

[eabaker]

I don't think the Rossio & Elliot script, as directed by Jan de Bont, would ever have resulted in a "great" movie. It probably would have been passable late-90s Hollywood blockbuster entertainment, certainly tighter and more propulsive and dynamic than the film we got; but it still wouldn't have been anything especially distinctive within its era, or groundbreaking for the genre.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I don't think the Rossio & Elliot script, as directed by Jan de Bont, would ever have resulted in a "great" movie. It probably would have been passable late-90s Hollywood blockbuster entertainment, certainly tighter and more propulsive and dynamic than the film we got; but it still wouldn't have been anything especially distinctive within its era, or groundbreaking for the genre.

I agree with this. I think I would have felt about the de Bont film how I do about the 2014 film; cool to see a big-budget Hollywood Godzilla movie, decent effort, some cool moments, but nothing terribly special. A lot of fans lament that we could have had such an amazing movie instead of GINO, but it really only sounds amazing by comparison.

[UltramanGoji]

To be brutally honest, fans don't want the DeBont film because it would've been a better movie, they want it because the monster looks and acts more like the traditional Godzilla and it fights another kaiju.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

To be brutally honest, fans don't want the DeBont film because it would've been a better movie, they want it because the monster looks and acts more like the traditional Godzilla and it fights another kaiju.

It's true but you shouldn't say it.

[LSD Jellyfish]

...just rewatched this...

Uhhhhhh, it’s fine, generic, not a good Godzilla film, not a good film, but not the worst thing ever.

I will say the film does clearly have a lot of effort put into, and feels like an actual movie, especially compared to Roland Emmerich’s later films. The opening destruction scene the the boat is well done, the scene in Panama has this big vibe to it, all the stuff with the tunnels is really good. When Godzilla attacks the fish market early on, there’s this big boat that crashes down, and it’s cool when the truck gets bitten into and you see the teeth. Well the film uses CGI for the monster in some scenes, it’s nice that it feels like an actual movie in that most of the sets and physical objects in the movie are real.

The main problem is that similar to Independence Day, there’s wayyyy too many characters and side plots. You have Craven and Campbell(the two scientists), Colonel Hicks and Sergent Oniell, Caiman (the reporter guy), Animal and his wife, Jean Reno and his group, Ebert and Siskel, and Nick himself. Obviously you need a supporting cast, but most people here contribute little to the film (Ebery and Siskel) and eat up valuable time that also deflates the little tension the film has. And Audrey is completely hateable, and her actress is horrid. Caiman is sleezy and useless. Nick himself is just there to give plot info and keep things moving along. I noticed every line of dialogue is pretty much a character looking at the camera and explaining how exactly they feel with little subtly.

There’s way too much unneeded comic relief, and slapstick that makes the film way too hard to take seriously. Like when Animal almost gets stomped on, the statue of James Madison falls on nick. Some of the stuff with the French guys is funny, like “you call this French roast?” Or the “this is America, we can buy anything”. I think some of it could be toned down, but it didn’t feel offensive, and it would’ve been fine to have them be the single source of comic relief.

Godzilla himself isn’t threatening. I’m going to ignore that it’s a bad take on the monster. But as a movie monster, it spends most of the film running away, and is pretty small. I didn’t realize how small it is before. He barely destroys anything, and when you have a non threatening monster and combine it with too much comic relief, and some really horrible filler, you get a really dull monster film.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Godzilla himself isn’t threatening. I’m going to ignore that it’s a bad take on the monster. But as a movie monster, it spends most of the film running away, and is pretty small. I didn’t realize how small it is before. He barely destroys anything, and when you have a non threatening monster and combine it with too much comic relief, and some really horrible filler, you get a really dull monster film.

You. This right here is my biggest problem with this Godzilla. That and the wishy washyness of his role. One scene, he's a genuine threat that has to be put down, the next he's a wondrous creature that shouldn't have to die and theres NEVER any wiggle room.

It's sad films 40 years older then yours got that better.

[Jetty_Jags]

I think this problem comes from the film wanting to be Jurassic park. It wants the wonder of a Spielberg film but is also trying to be a monster flick, and these two identities have no Harmony.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I think the problem with this film is that Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich have no idea how to write a script and the latter has no idea how to direct a film, either. Their only halfway decent film is Independence Day, and I credit that films' entertainment value to the actors and the effects artists. By contrast, Godzilla '98 had terrible actors and terrible special effects, which makes the atrocity of the screenplay all the more painfully obvious.