Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby kamilleblu » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:04 am

Zarm wrote:It has its pluses and minuses. In certain cuts and edits, it is quicker-paced and a bit better, but of course other plotlines and a lot of the politics are dropped. I wouldn't call this a situation like Godzilla 2000, where the American version seems superior, or the original where the Japanese version trumps its American remake. Instead, with Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985, it really comes down to what you're looking for in the film. Each film bring something different to the table.

Is this like the second time we've agreed on this something? Still, it's a messy film regardless of which cut you go with. Return of Godzilla is one of the Godzilla films I'm extremely conflicted about. There's some elements I really enjoy and there's other elements that I find difficult to ignore.

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Zarm » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:33 am

kamilleblu wrote:
Zarm wrote:It has its pluses and minuses. In certain cuts and edits, it is quicker-paced and a bit better, but of course other plotlines and a lot of the politics are dropped. I wouldn't call this a situation like Godzilla 2000, where the American version seems superior, or the original where the Japanese version trumps its American remake. Instead, with Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985, it really comes down to what you're looking for in the film. Each film bring something different to the table.

Is this like the second time we've agreed on this something? Still, it's a messy film regardless of which cut you go with. Return of Godzilla is one of the Godzilla films I'm extremely conflicted about. There's some elements I really enjoy and there's other elements that I find difficult to ignore.


It is a rare occasion. We should savor it. :)
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Maritonic » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:35 am

Zarm wrote:
kamilleblu wrote:
Zarm wrote:It has its pluses and minuses. In certain cuts and edits, it is quicker-paced and a bit better, but of course other plotlines and a lot of the politics are dropped. I wouldn't call this a situation like Godzilla 2000, where the American version seems superior, or the original where the Japanese version trumps its American remake. Instead, with Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985, it really comes down to what you're looking for in the film. Each film bring something different to the table.

Is this like the second time we've agreed on this something? Still, it's a messy film regardless of which cut you go with. Return of Godzilla is one of the Godzilla films I'm extremely conflicted about. There's some elements I really enjoy and there's other elements that I find difficult to ignore.


It is a rare occasion. We should savor it. :)


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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Godzillian » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:38 am

The American cut of 1985 doesn't really add anything to the movie. The new scenes are literally just people watching Godzilla in a control room. The original KOTM was clever in weaving in the Burr footage so he was actually part of the events of the film while GTTHM and 2000 use editing to improve the flow of the film.
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Zarm » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:46 am

I may just be biased from watching previews of the Resurrection cut- but I do think Steve Martin's portents add a bit. Either way, though- the cuts help pick up the pacing, and Burr's end narration/the sound effect do make a positive impact.

Still, from everything I've seen, the Resurrection cut being released in two weeks will be the best of both worlds, and really help to pick up the pace with some slight re-editing to intercut things. I suspect it will blow both the Japanese and American cuts out of the water.
Last edited by Zarm on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby kamilleblu » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:55 am

Zarm wrote:Resurgence cut

What's this?

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Zarm » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:56 am

kamilleblu wrote:
Zarm wrote:Resurgence cut

What's this?


It's me, on 5 hours' sleep, using the wrong name for Godzilla: Resurrection! :)

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27517&p=1599099#p1599099
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby GojiDog » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:53 am

For a film that has a fairly dull cast of human characters, I actually quite like Keiju Kobayashi as the Prime Minister Seiki Mitamura.

I don't know what it is, but something about his facial expressions just conveys that he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders with each decision he makes. He's not as involved in the direct drama as the main cast, and probably isn't designed to be anything more memorable than a politician making decisions, but he really stuck with me for some reason.

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Zarm » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:18 am

GojiDog wrote:For a film that has a fairly dull cast of human characters, I actually quite like Keiju Kobayashi as the Prime Minister Seiki Mitamura.

I don't know what it is, but something about his facial expressions just conveys that he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders with each decision he makes. He's not as involved in the direct drama as the main cast, and probably isn't designed to be anything more memorable than a politician making decisions, but he really stuck with me for some reason.


I can definitely agree with that.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Godzillian » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:22 am

I wish the scientist in this film came back in later movies. He had a very interesting philosophy on Godzilla, though I doubt he would get the same screen time and depth in something like Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla as here
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Grievous » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:21 pm

Well...

This was the first Godzilla film I ever watched.

It was 1990 & my parents rented a copy of Godzilla 1985 on
VHS (in a glorious bright orange clam shell case) & I watched
it on Friday night with a thunderstorm brewing outside.

I still remember my reaction to Godzilla "raiding" the Ihama nuclear
power plant & "absorbing" energy from the reactor. Its still to this
day one of my all time favorite scenes from the entire franchise.

Of course...I'm not "blinded by nostalgia" and while this film is
special to me...these days I see it as the awkward restart of the
franchise that it truly is.

The film itself is fairly flat places but the acting is solid & most
of the characters likeable. I don't really care for the political
elements of the film...although in saying that I enjoyed the
political elements of Shin Gojira...so perhaps it depends on
the delivery & context.

The effects are uneven & this Godzilla suit/design just doesn't
work for me...but the score is creative & the Super X battle
is fun.

I guess that for all it flaws I still love it...but that's only when
I occasionally wear my nostalgia goggles.
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:47 am

Sorry to everyone here, but this is my least favorite Heisei film. I barely consider it part of Heisei canon. It just feels like a crappy remake of 1954 with not that much new. Even in the Japanese cut, I just really don't enjoy it. It just feels so distant from the rest of the series. Yeah, I actually prefer Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla to Return. This movie just drags on for way too long, even in the American cut. Godzilla doesn't feel like he has anything to do except stand in the middle of the set and kinda stare awkwardly. Not to mention the occasional derpy eyes on the suit. The roar for him was amazing, and the soundtrack was decent, but everything else was just... eh.
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Rhedosaurus » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:09 pm

I remember seeing this movie as a kid, but I don't remember much of it. I mainly remember being confused as to why Godzilla was on a rampage in Tokyo when all the past movies I saw had him fighting monsters. It wasn't until years later did I know why. I wanted to see this movie again, but it wasn't until I saw Brandon Tenold's review did I buy it via Amazon. I got the Kraken Entertainment version. And while it's different then one I saw, particularly the fact that the Kraken version has no Raymond Burr, I winded up liking it quite a bit. It's a simple movie, but for what it's worth, it's a good one. The fact that it brings up the Cold War and deals with atomic weapons is a nice touch and one the movie deals with quite well.

I just wish we had more of Godzilla outright destroying Tokyo, because, and maybe it's just me. Far more of it was left standing this time.

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Goji » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:54 pm

Godzillian wrote:The American cut of 1985 doesn't really add anything to the movie.


The American cut IS Godzilla 1985.

Also, this is false. The improved pacing, "new" music, the return of Steve Martin, and the axing of FX shots that don't really work in the Japanese cut are all positives. Maybe those don't really count as 'adding something' to it in the way that you're describing, but you know what I mean.

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby DragonZord13 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:32 pm

Just got done watching Godzilla 1985 and is it just me or does Steve Martin (Burr's character) seem evil-ish? I get that he's witnessed the first Godzilla's attack and his cynicism is warranted but he flat out tells his US friends "Godzilla won't die. Just stop." Couple that with a scene of him massaging that Dragon idol thing and THEN Godzilla springs into action, almost comes off as Steve controlling Godzilla. In the end Martin was the most interesting character because he's so God damn mysterious and even foreboding.
I like shows where Japanese folks change into spandex clad heroes and fight rubber suits.

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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Zarm » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:35 pm

I hear he killed his wife, too. Jimmy Stewart was the only witness.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Maritonic » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:57 am

DragonZord13 wrote:Just got done watching Godzilla 1985 and is it just me or does Steve Martin (Burr's character) seem evil-ish? I get that he's witnessed the first Godzilla's attack and his cynicism is warranted but he flat out tells his US friends "Godzilla won't die. Just stop." Couple that with a scene of him massaging that Dragon idol thing and THEN Godzilla springs into action, almost comes off as Steve controlling Godzilla. In the end Martin was the most interesting character because he's so God damn mysterious and even foreboding.


Oddly enough, I just revisited this for the first time in almost 20 years or so. And I forgot how dark and mysterious they treat Martin. You're absolutely right about this; the dragon idol, his glares at the screen, his cynicism (which at least makes sense), and even the dark flute music that plays when he's on screen. He even "awakens" after Godzilla's first attack on the ship. It's all very interesting.
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Grievous » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:07 am

Maritonic wrote:
DragonZord13 wrote:Just got done watching Godzilla 1985 and is it just me or does Steve Martin (Burr's character) seem evil-ish? I get that he's witnessed the first Godzilla's attack and his cynicism is warranted but he flat out tells his US friends "Godzilla won't die. Just stop." Couple that with a scene of him massaging that Dragon idol thing and THEN Godzilla springs into action, almost comes off as Steve controlling Godzilla. In the end Martin was the most interesting character because he's so God damn mysterious and even foreboding.


Oddly enough, I just revisited this for the first time in almost 20 years or so. And I forgot how dark and mysterious they treat Martin. You're absolutely right about this; the dragon idol, his glares at the screen, his cynicism (which at least makes sense), and even the dark flute music that plays when he's on screen. He even "awakens" after Godzilla's first attack on the ship. It's all very interesting.

I think the mystery & "evilness" around his character comes
from the fact Raymond Burr is playing his role 100% serious &
it clashes with the tone of the other added American actors.

I'm a big fan of Burr & I think he's the second best thing about
the Godzilla 1985 version...second to Godzilla of course.



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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Maritonic » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:11 am

Grievous wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
DragonZord13 wrote:Just got done watching Godzilla 1985 and is it just me or does Steve Martin (Burr's character) seem evil-ish? I get that he's witnessed the first Godzilla's attack and his cynicism is warranted but he flat out tells his US friends "Godzilla won't die. Just stop." Couple that with a scene of him massaging that Dragon idol thing and THEN Godzilla springs into action, almost comes off as Steve controlling Godzilla. In the end Martin was the most interesting character because he's so God damn mysterious and even foreboding.


Oddly enough, I just revisited this for the first time in almost 20 years or so. And I forgot how dark and mysterious they treat Martin. You're absolutely right about this; the dragon idol, his glares at the screen, his cynicism (which at least makes sense), and even the dark flute music that plays when he's on screen. He even "awakens" after Godzilla's first attack on the ship. It's all very interesting.

I think the mystery & "evilness" around his character comes
from the fact Raymond Burr is playing his role 100% serious &
it clashes with the tone of the other added American actors.


:thumbsup:


True, but the music on him is deliberately dark. That's not the surrounding characters. I'll admit, though, the surrounding characters amplify the effects of the music and the dread it causes, as opposed to their goofy natures. But there is definitely something grim about him on his own.
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Re: Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Grievous » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:14 am

Maritonic wrote:True, but the music on him is deliberately dark. That's not the surrounding characters. I'll admit, though, the surrounding characters amplify the effects of the music and the dread it causes, as opposed to their goofy natures. But there is definitely something grim about him on his own.

Well...(in continuity) he did live though the first Godzilla attack...
& I'd say that would change anyone...most likely for the worse.
Last edited by Grievous on Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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