Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

[tymon]

^I'm pretty sure we'll get either both versions or neither, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

And yeah, it is annoying to get only one version, like King Kong vs. Godzilla...but what can ya do? Buy a bootleg, that's what!*

*Jesus Christ, have I become the new wataru?**

**By the way, whatever happened to that fat fuck?

[GFAN198423]

Considering this movie has never been on official R1, I'd imagine whatever company that finally gets the rights will want to go all out.

Classic Media and Criterion released Gojira and King of the Monsters together.

I could be wrong, but I thought Kong's release was controlled by the rights in America behind the deal to share the Kong character.

[Pkmatrix]

I could be wrong, but I thought Kong's release was controlled by the rights in America behind the deal to share the Kong character.

If I recall, it's because Universal owns the U.S. rights to KKvG in perpetuity and chooses to use their version of the film exclusively.

[Legion1979]

If this finally gets a US DVD/blu-ray release, I can easily see Toho saying "screw it" when it comes to the American version and just allowing a company to release their HD Japanese master, along with the International dub as a second audio track.

[GFAN198423]

I could be wrong, but I thought Kong's release was controlled by the rights in America behind the deal to share the Kong character.

If I recall, it's because Universal owns the U.S. rights to KKvG in perpetuity and chooses to use their version of the film exclusively.

It's something like that, bottom line it's more a choice of the distributor than Toho, but it seems like any sort of legal issues with '84/'85 are holding up any release, so once it's possible the rights should be available for both versions and there will be no self interest served releasing only '85.

[Giga Kaiju]

As long as the rights get worked with, I doubt that we will get only one version. They just need to be adressed, and I'm sure Toho isn't going to be mind and release both ROG/84 and 85.

[Legion1979]

Put nothing past Toho when it comes to what they will and won't allow on a home video release.

[g2vd]

I could be wrong, but I thought Kong's release was controlled by the rights in America behind the deal to share the Kong character.

If I recall, it's because Universal owns the U.S. rights to KKvG in perpetuity and chooses to use their version of the film exclusively.

Actually, it's because to release the Godzilla Vs. King Kong JP Version. they have to buy a print from Toho as they only have the print to the American Version, and Universal doesn't think it will make enough money to justify the money and time when they have the American version already.

King Kong Rights Explained By KPA, Spoiler Because it's a rather big post.

Spoiler:

I got a message from g2vd asking me to help clarify the rights to King Kong, which are split between multiple parties. I've posted this info on TK before so it will be old news for some of you, but hopefully it still be of some use here. This is based on information presented in the biography of Merian Cooper, creator and co-director ofthe original KING KONG, as well as conversations I've had over the years with contacts at Warner Bros, Universal, Toho, etc.

The 1933 KING KONG (and SON OF KONG and MIGHTY JOE YOUNG) was made by RKO Pictures. In 1971, RKO's film and television library was auctioned off, with the majority of their titles going to United Artists. In 1981, United Artists was sold and merged with MGM. In 1986, Ted Turner's Turner Broadcasting bought the MGM library, including all of the United Artists and RKO titles. In 1996, Turner Broadcasting merged with Time Warner, with the MGM/UA/RKO library going to Warner Bros. Pictures. As of 2015, Warner Bros. owns distribution and some merchandising rights to original KING KONG (plus SON and JOE). Based on the information I've seen, Warners does not have remake or sequel rights to Kong.

In the 1960s, RKO made the character of King Kong available for sequels and spinoffs. They gave producer John Beck permission to pitch a "King Kong vs" movie to other studios; Beck eventually took the project to Toho who paid a licensing fee to RKO to make KING KONG VS GODZILLA. The deal between Beck and Toho split the rights to that film, with Toho owning KKvsG in Asia while Beck got the rights for the US and several other countries in perpetuity. Beck later sold his share to Universal Pictures.

Rankin/Bass licensed Kong from RKO for their animated KING KONG show (1966) and a spinoff film. The film was the Toho co-production KING KONG ESCAPES, which Rankin/Bass sold to Universal.

Merian Cooper retained some rights, including control of the character and plot of the original film. The 1976 KING KONG remake from Paramount Pictures credits Cooper and his co-authors from the original story. KONG '76 is copyrighted to Paramount and Dino De Laurentiis Corp.

After Cooper's death, his estate sold the film, theme park and certain merchandising rights to the character and plot of KING KONG to Universal. This eventually led to Universal's 2005 remake by Peter Jackson.

In 2014, Legendary Pictures and Universal began a multi-year agreement to co-produce and co-finance films. SKULL ISLAND was being produced as part of the Universal/Legendary. Now that Legendary reportedly wants move SKULL ISLAND to Warner Bros., they would have to work out some agreement with Universal since 1) the project started there, and 2) Universal has the Kong film rights they bought from the Cooper estate. Whether that happens or not hasn't been decided, but by letting the film go to Warners, Universal could conceivably get a piece of SKULL ISLAND and a potential Godzilla crossover without spending their own production money on either one.

But Godzilla 1998 did not under perform?

Budget $130 million
Box office $379 million

Nothing spectacular, but it made back it's money and then some. What killed it was the backlash and the merchandise sat on store shelves.

I don't want to talk about G98 that much, but yes, it actually did quite well. That's why SONY did a animated series. The merchandise etc. did good too.

According to one of the producers, the budget for GODZILLA '98 was closer to $150 million with another $50 mil spent on advertising. The projections were the film would have to pass $240 million in the US to be a hit. Sony expected it to cross that mark easily and break the opening weekend record with $100 million. Instead the movie opened at $55 mil, dropped like a stone at the box office, and finished with $136 domestically, about half want Sony thought it would make. International box office made the film mildly profitable, but Sony wanted a franchise starting smash... that's what killed sequel plans.

There was a few exceptions, but for the most part the merchandising also underperformed.

GODZILLA: THE SERIES was presold to Fox and well into production before the movie was released. The cartoon was going to happen regardless of how the movie did at the box office.

So, I have a question. Does Toho specifically own the look/design of King Kong from their two films? And if they do, I'm guessing that's not enough for them to be able to use the character in any of their films?

Toho licensed King Kong from RKO for one film (KKE was done separately through Rankin/Bass' licensing deal with RKO) so they can't use Kong again in their own movies. They've always been very cautious about using King Kong's likeness from KKvsG and KKE and in recent years they've pretty much stopped using Kong or Mechanikong in merchandising outside of things like home video releases, poster reprints and "history of Godzilla" books. Bandai did a figure of the KKvsG King Kong in 1993, and it had a copryright for Turner Entertainment.

[Giga Kaiju]

Yikes. In that case, at least, ROG isn't in a limbo-like situation like with the japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla.

[Godzilla Lover101]

So I watched the 1976 version of King Kong yesterday. It was decent, but what stuck out to me was the train sequence. It just screamed "Godzilla." You think Return of Godzilla got it's own train sequence inspired for this? I think so.

[Stevo_1985]

So I watched the 1976 version of King Kong yesterday. It was decent, but what stuck out to me was the train sequence. It just screamed "Godzilla." You think Return of Godzilla got it's own train sequence inspired for this? I think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrgAHKLSTM

Was this train sequence inspired by the 54 Godzilla?

[UltramanGoji]

Uh, I think it was inspired by the train scene in the movie it was a remake of.

You know, the original King Kong.

[Stevo_1985]

Uh, I think it was inspired by the train scene in the movie it was a remake of.

You know, the original King Kong.

Ahh. Didnt even think of that.

[GFAN198423]

Yeah, if anything the train scene in Gojira may have been a nod to Kong, maybe even a way to show his size to Kong. Either way, the scene in ROG comes off as a nod to Gojira.

[Giga Kaiju]

More than a nod, I think those are coincidental moments in the movies that are often referenced when someone talks about those movies.

[g2vd]

I was wondering could anybody please PM to a link to a place where I could download The Return Of Godzilla with English Subtitles?

[Kaltes-Herzeleid]

Personally, after a recent re-watch, I can safely say it's my favorite of the series. This movie (along with its sequel) had a layer of depth to it not really seen since the original, the story was dark and compelling and I found that political drama added a great deal of drama rarely seen in the series. Plus the cinematography/visuals were top notch, the amount of effort they put into everything was evident, and all the kaiju scenes were fantastic.

Pity Godzilla Vs. King Ghidorah came along and ruined everything.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

Does anyone know where I could get a copy of the international cut of the film. I'd like to experience the film in its original cut, without all of New World Pictures tampering.
-Thanks!

[Goji]

The Carlton PAL VHS, or a rip of said VHS is your really your viable option. Even then, it's not exactly easy to find.

[Bigdog]

Does anyone know where I could get a copy of the international cut of the film. I'd like to experience the film in its original cut, without all of New World Pictures tampering.
-Thanks!

Actually, that would be far better. The International dub is pathetically terrible and since it's professionals dubbing it here, it's likely to be far better in its cut form. The only things 1985 has that is different is the cutting of the worst effects, changing some of the terrible score choices, and of course, the godawful "Goodbye Godzilla" is replaced with a theme that is leagues better.

I always wondered how a 1985 cut that removed all the American scenes would be. If someone could find the Monsters HD cut, spliced in the older scenes and whatever was lost, it would prove to be a superior dub to that.

If you want the Japanese cut, I'd suggest the Universe Laser DVD, if you can find it. But honestly, you might as well just go searching for unofficial sources.