Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

[Zarm]

I feel like a bit of a philistine to say it, but this is one of my least favorite kaiju films. I was very excited to finally catch the Japanese version a year or two ago, but now I tend to refer to it as 'the one whose entire second half is about people trying to escape a stairwell.'

[eabaker]

I feel like a bit of a philistine to say it, but this is one of my least favorite kaiju films. I was very excited to finally catch the Japanese version a year or two ago, but now I tend to refer to it as 'the one whose entire second half is about people trying to escape a stairwell.'

As much as I personally love the movie, I'd hardly say ranking it low casts you as a philistine. There are a lot of fans who find it interminably dull.

[Goji]

How many non-Toho produced kaiju films have you seen, Zarm? Because I could understand if it was one of your "least favorite Godzilla films" but least favorite kaiju films is pretty extreme.

[Zarm]

How many non-Toho produced kaiju films have you seen, Zarm? Because I could understand if it was one of your "least favorite Godzilla films" but least favorite kaiju films is pretty extreme.

Offhand, I know I haven't seen the Birth of Japan, the Daiyuzan trilogy - if I'm remembering the right name, the one about the giant statue - Legend of Dinosaurs and Monster Birds, The Abominable Snowman, or the Human Vapor. Other than that I think I've seen most of them.

And you're right - there are probably a score of others that were simply so forgettable I don't dress them up on the list. It would be more accurate to say possibly 'one ofmy least favorite franchise Kaiju films' - from Godzilla or Gamera - as I would really have to go and we catalog the rest to say for certain where this one ranks on the overall Kaiju film scale. But that's a whole other marathon...

[JVM]

(Deleted)

[Just Plain Dan]

I remember when I first saw it, the pacing really was an issue for me, and I wasn't too big on Godzilla's design. Other than that, and although I haven't seen Godzilla vs Biollante, it and Godzilla vs Destroyah are the Heisei films I enjoy the most.

[Rody]

I'm really happy to have finally seen the original Return of Godzilla (and own it, too, no less!). Having said that...

RoG is an interesting film, but not an exciting one. The film moves at a slow pace, although it feels deliberate - unlike the '85 cut, which, to me, felt rushed and lacking information. RoG takes its time to introduce the cast and set up the upcoming events, and so develops a certain restless, ominous atmosphere (though not as strong as I was hoping). Unfortunately, few of the characters are given much development, despite several hints and beginning threads. Goro's kind of a jerk, but we don't get to see much development from there. Hiroshi Okumura develops a hatred for Godzilla, but nothing at all comes out of this. His sister, Naoko, is simply "there". Hayashida is kind of interesting, with his perspective of Godzilla both objective and a little mythic, but on his own this doesn't get far. It would have great to see his wiser attitude contrast with Hiroshi's potential vengeance, or see Hayashida become a peace-keeper (or something) between Goro and the Okumuras. The one character that does seem handled well is the Prime Minister. This is occurring to me as I write it, but the Prime Minister's perspective contrasts with all the other main characters, in that while they've all been waiting for this moment (Hayashida), or at least got caught up in it and are now trying to make the most of it (Goro & Hiroshi), Godzilla's appearance is easily the last thing the poor Prime Minister wanted to deal with. In spite of this, the Prime Minister steps up to the task, and gives the utmost consideration to the ensuing events. I have to sympathize with him; he has to balance three superpowers at once (Godzilla, the USA, and the Soviet Union), and it's kind of a wonder he keeps things under control as much as he does - which makes it hard to watch when Godzilla arrives and the missile launches anyway.
Godzilla's arrival and march through Tokyo are, of course, the big draw for the film; but this is also where the film may stumble the most. Godzilla is fairly animalistic in this film: he is driven by a need to feed, rather than some intangible sense of wrath. His walk through the city is surreal more than it is frightening - which is interesting to watch, but far less enthralling than a bona fide rampage would have been. Make no mistake, the city sets are quite impressive, as are the military's assault at the bay and Teruyoshi Nakano's pyrotechnics in general; the suit is also one of my favorite designs, despite its occasionally hindered mobility and some jarring shots with the cybot. However, none of these effects are enough to really excite at any point, even when the Super X arrives to do battle with Godzilla (and, honestly, what purpose does the Super X actually serve to the narrative?). Watching Goro, Hayashida, and the Okumuras try to escape the building in the meantime gets tedious as well.

I think RoG feels kind of experimental, as if Toho was testing the waters for the character and his franchise. There's obviously political relevancy to the plot, and there's a lot of potential in the characters and the general atmosphere; but I feel like there's something lacking to give the film the "oomph" it needs (not unlike my thoughts towards G2K, curiously). Don't get me wrong, I did like the film; but I was kind of hoping I'd love it, and instead came away feeling it was just highly adequate. I'm delighted to have it in my film collection, nevertheless. Hopefully I'll warm up to it more on future viewings.

[eabaker]

I feel like there's something lacking to give the film the "oomph" it needs (not unlike my thoughts towards G2K, curiously).

That's an interesting comparison, and I think I see where you're coming from.

RoG is a very straight-forward, by-the-numbers version of a "serious" Godzilla story, and G2K is a very straight-forward, by-the-numbers version of a "fun" Godzilla story. Each gives itself some interesting characters, situations and ideas to play with, but neither takes them very far. I think they were both very solid ways to revive the dormant franchise, but would suffer a lot if they'd come mid-era.

[Rody]

It's kind of frustrating for me, because I feel like both films are just shy of being something really cool; but they don't - quite - get there!
Part of me also wonders: had these two films pushed harder, would the result have affected the following films as well? That is, had they been "great" rather than "good", would that new, higher standard have benefited the rest of the films in their respective series?

[DaruniaDancing]

Reading through the first page of this thread, I'm surprised by people's mixed reaction to the movie. In the initial 40-year history of Godzilla, this is my favorite entry aside from the original. I can't make a more definitive statement then that, because I haven't completed all of the others yet. But still, great flick! I guess I'm a sucker for the original recipe of a villainous Godzilla attacking at night. After getting through all the Showa-era cheesiness — which, as a millennial, I have no nostalgic attachment to — this felt like a breath of fresh air.

Edit: Honestly, I might even like this one more than the original. Is that sacrilege?

[Stevo_1985]

Reading through the first page of this thread, I'm surprised by people's mixed reaction to the movie. In the initial 40-year history of Godzilla, this is my favorite entry aside from the original. I can't make a more definitive statement then that, because I haven't completed all of the others yet. But still, great flick! I guess I'm a sucker for the original recipe of a villainous Godzilla attacking at night. After getting through all the Showa-era cheesiness — which, as a millennial, I have no nostalgic attachment to — this felt like a breath of fresh air.

Edit: Honestly, I might even like this one more than the original. Is that sacrilege?

No. I find this one to be one of my favorites if not THE favorite for me. Both versions but 85 edges RoG just a tad for me. Personally I find this incarnation to be the most terrifying out of the lot as well. The suit, soundtrack, and atmosphere play off each other well.

[DaruniaDancing]

Definitely!

[Chrispy_G]

I really enjoy it. It doesn't move at a terribly fast pace...but especially if you watch it back-to-back with the original film...it has this kinda 'True sequel' feeling to it. Godzilla Raids Again has its merits but in a lot of ways just feels like 'another one', and to be brutally honest, it being released like 6 months after the original is evidence of that in a lot of ways.

In historical context I also love the jump in technique and technology from the films of the 60s-70s to this one.

[Demon Lord Gira]

I'm honestly not sure if this is the place to ask this... but I'm a little desperate.

In the japanese trailer for RoG, the version of the main title theme heard there is different from what is in the final movie. It's more synthesized than the final orchestral version.



0:15-0:37, and 1:20-1:50. Anyone know where I can find this version of the theme?

[Space Hunter M]

I'm honestly not sure if this is the place to ask this... but I'm a little desperate.

In the japanese trailer for RoG, the version of the main title theme heard there is different from what is in the final movie. It's more synthesized than the final orchestral version.



0:15-0:37, and 1:20-1:50. Anyone know where I can find this version of the theme?

To my knowledge, it's never been released.

There are two similar sounding synth renditions, though.

One is Makoto Inoue's from The Godzilla Legend Chronology: https://youtu.be/YBu8UaiCbL0?t=1h2m53s

The other one is on the Perfect Collection OST for Godzilla vs. Mothra, but it's still not the trailer version.

[Demon Lord Gira]

That's disappointing to hear, but thank you.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

In that trailer at 1:52, is that footage of people running in the office building a deleted scene from RoG, or stock footage from another Toho film?

[shadowgigan]

Reading through the first page of this thread, I'm surprised by people's mixed reaction to the movie. In the initial 40-year history of Godzilla, this is my favorite entry aside from the original. I can't make a more definitive statement then that, because I haven't completed all of the others yet. But still, great flick! I guess I'm a sucker for the original recipe of a villainous Godzilla attacking at night. After getting through all the Showa-era cheesiness — which, as a millennial, I have no nostalgic attachment to — this felt like a breath of fresh air.

Edit: Honestly, I might even like this one more than the original. Is that sacrilege?

No. I find this one to be one of my favorites if not THE favorite for me. Both versions but 85 edges RoG just a tad for me. Personally I find this incarnation to be the most terrifying out of the lot as well. The suit, soundtrack, and atmosphere play off each other well.

One of the greatest and most unique scores of all time, IMO.

Agree with the night scenes thing, I kind of wish all of Shin Gojira's city destruction would have been at night

[Stevo_1985]

One of the greatest and most unique scores of all time, IMO.

Agree with the night scenes thing, I kind of wish all of Shin Gojira's city destruction would have been at night

I guess a monster attack in the night is a bit cliche but to me it just sets a more foreboding mood. That and the soundtrack is very unique. Personally I loved the added tracks from defcon 4 in the 85 cut. After watching RoG for the first time I felt the submarine scene was totally lacking without the Armageddon track.

[Missingno.]

After watching this movie again, something came to me as a bother that I never thought of before. The scene where the Soviet and American ambassadors visit the prime minister to work out an attack plan against Godzilla is where this occurs for me. On top of none of the Japanese cabinet mentioning the fact that atomic weapons created Godzilla and radiation powers him, something that has always bothered me, the recent flaw I noticed is that both of the foreign ambassadors insist that their leaders want to use nuclear weapons against Godzilla; though both the United States and Soviet Union respectively had Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev in power at the time; both being leaders that were against nuclear weapon production/possession, and actually sought policies that would actually reduce the stock of each nation's nuclear weapon count through agreements such as the START treaties. All of this was beginning to occur around the time the movie was made as well, so why a blind eye was turned to these facts, I don't know. I guess to have that threat of the possible use of nuclear weapons at any time? Beats me. Just a pet peeve of mine, though.