Talkback Thread #16: The Return of Godzilla

[Goji]

Why is is on there of all places?! In any case, thanks BigAssLizard!

[UltramanGoji]

Huh, well that explains why I couldn't find it. Awesome to hear that it's actually an official song though.

[Grimlock#1]

What do you think ever happened to Bum? I like to believe he simply went unconscious and survived, then woke up after Godzilla left for Mt. Mihara, taking the briefcase he discovered off into the sunset to start his life anew.

[GigaBowserG]

What do you think ever happened to Bum? I like to believe he simply went unconscious and survived, then woke up after Godzilla left for Mt. Mihara, taking the briefcase he discovered off into the sunset to start his life anew.

lol, I always figured the poor dude got squashed.

[BlankAccount]

It's been mentioned before how tonally-strange the end credit song is. For such a grim, destructive Godzilla, it seems strange refer to him as an 'old friend' and wish him well. But what if that's not the Godzilla this song is referring to? What if this is Return of Godzilla, establishing a new continuity and will eventually become known as the Heisei series, giving a fond and affectionate farewell to the Showa Godzilla whose series is now definitively over? 'Goodbye,' the song is saying, 'And thanks for all the memories. Wherever you are now, Showa Godzilla, we wish you well.'

That's how I saw it, as a kinda meta reference to the "good ol days" of when Godzilla was a good guy. In fact I think the credits song and the prime minister crying are more of a nod to the audience who'd grown attached to hero Godzilla, and are the only ones with any reason to find his death bittersweet since in universe he's supposed to have always been a bad guy.

The Prime Minister and others are upset because they were, they believed at the time, sending an innocent animal to an incredibly cruel death. They know Godzilla is not a monster but an animal that had something monstrous befall on him because of humanity. He's only a monster because we made him that way. He's asked for his fate no more than the people who died by his breath and feet asked to be killed.

Added in 4 minutes 53 seconds:

My initial impression is that I can definitely see where the criticism comes from; it was kind of slow and plodding, and the whole movie sort of builds up to nothing, since Godzilla hardly does anything once entering Tokyo.

That's kind of how I feel about 2014. Outside of the fights with the Super-X or MUTOs, Godzilla doesn't do much in either film. I feel like I'm harsher on 2014 because ROG/G1985 showed enough that even just a downtown stroll can cause a lot of deaths and damages, where as 2014 seemed to cut away so GA don't linger on the fact Godzilla killed a lot of people because he's the hero. That and I feel ROG did a better job with keeping it's tone of dread. 2014 felt like it was trying and failed.

[Zarm]

The Prime Minister and others are upset because they were, they believed at the time, sending an innocent animal to an incredibly cruel death. They know Godzilla is not a monster but an animal that had something monstrous befall on him because of humanity. He's only a monster because we made him that way. He's asked for his fate no more than the people who died by his breath and feet asked to be killed.

That's the strange thing, though. While Godzilla's actual actions wandering downtown could certainly be construed as innocent, almost King Kong-like in curiosity, and his lack of aggression is tonally bizarre to the way that the film presents him as a terrible threat and menace, he also annihilates the shoreline with his Atomic breath, blasts the Super-X, and is generally presented as a world ending threat. To me, he is not presented as innocent until that final moment, which is more than a little incongruous with the Doomsday tone of the film.

Alternately, he's not menacing enough in his actions to sustain the tone of doom throughout the movie. Either he is innocent, and the ending makes sense but the preceding movie is way off balance and trying to throw up a sense of dread that the actions in the movie don't match with... or you buy into the sense of dread, and the sudden sympathy and innocence at the end becomes tonally jarring because the entire movie is about the characters trying to eliminate this deadly, doomsday threat, and suddenly the characters feel sorry for him on the turn of a dime.

Either way, the two halves of the movie don't mesh well. That is why Return of Godzilla is in my bottom 5 Godzilla movies- because it doesn't really successfully portray either tone, the doom or the sympathy, but has them overlap on each other in all the wrong places. When it should be doomfull, he looks innocent. When it should be sympathy for the innocent, it's had too much built-up of menace for that emotion to land. It tries to vacillate, and ends up not being enough of either to succeed at either.

At least to me.

[BlankAccount]

That's the strange thing, though. While Godzilla's actual actions wandering downtown could certainly be construed as innocent, almost King Kong-like in curiosity, and his lack of aggression is tonally bizarre to the way that the film presents him as a terrible threat and menace, he also annihilates the shoreline with his Atomic breath, blasts the Super-X, and is generally presented as a world ending threat. To me, he is not presented as innocent until that final moment, which is more than a little incongruous with the Doomsday tone of the film.

Probably cause they were attacking him. And he could be a world ending threat in 2 ways. 1. He almost caused WW3, and 2. We would not just let him walk through a city. I'm sorry but as a species are fucking stupid, every time we see him we'd tried shooting him to drive him away from a populated area despite knowing that every time we do all it does is egg him on.

Alternately, he's not menacing enough in his actions to sustain the tone of doom throughout the movie. Either he is innocent, and the ending makes sense but the preceding movie is way off balance and trying to throw up a sense of dread that the actions in the movie don't match with... or you buy into the sense of dread, and the sudden sympathy and innocence at the end becomes tonally jarring because the entire movie is about the characters trying to eliminate this deadly, doomsday threat, and suddenly the characters feel sorry for him on the turn of a dime.

Being isolated in a volcano for 5 years and remembering his last run in with humanity is probably gonna make him much more aggressive, it's like animal abuse.

[AbudJasemAlBaldawi]

The Prime Minister and others are upset because they were, they believed at the time, sending an innocent animal to an incredibly cruel death. They know Godzilla is not a monster but an animal that had something monstrous befall on him because of humanity. He's only a monster because we made him that way. He's asked for his fate no more than the people who died by his breath and feet asked to be killed.

Yeah but the song specifically say "my old friend" and "sayonara till we meet again" even tho Godzilla as far as this movie tells us is dead, pretty clear nod at the audience

[BlankAccount]

The Prime Minister and others are upset because they were, they believed at the time, sending an innocent animal to an incredibly cruel death. They know Godzilla is not a monster but an animal that had something monstrous befall on him because of humanity. He's only a monster because we made him that way. He's asked for his fate no more than the people who died by his breath and feet asked to be killed.

Yeah but the song specifically say "my old friend" and "sayonara till we meet again" even tho Godzilla as far as this movie tells us is dead, pretty clear nod at the audience

....What does that have to do with anything we were talking about? The song is a meta nod that the character is beloved over the world like Micky Mouse or Yoda. It's not to be taken literal in context of the movie. Maybe they just felt like having an uplifting song after a depressing movie, it's not like we don't do it, Nightcrawler ended with a mood whiplash of end credits music.

[Cybermat47]

Yeah but the song specifically say "my old friend" and "sayonara till we meet again" even tho Godzilla as far as this movie tells us is dead, pretty clear nod at the audience

Actually, as I remember it, the film makes it quite clear that Godzilla doesn’t die. While forming the plan to lure Godzilla to Mt. Mihara with the magnetic field device, Hayashida says that Godzilla will be trapped, but survive.

[AbudJasemAlBaldawi]

The Prime Minister and others are upset because they were, they believed at the time, sending an innocent animal to an incredibly cruel death. They know Godzilla is not a monster but an animal that had something monstrous befall on him because of humanity. He's only a monster because we made him that way. He's asked for his fate no more than the people who died by his breath and feet asked to be killed.

Yeah but the song specifically say "my old friend" and "sayonara till we meet again" even tho Godzilla as far as this movie tells us is dead, pretty clear nod at the audience

....What does that have to do with anything we were talking about? The song is a meta nod that the character is beloved over the world like Micky Mouse or Yoda. It's not to be taken literal in context of the movie. Maybe they just felt like having an uplifting song after a depressing movie, it's not like we don't do it, Nightcrawler ended with a mood whiplash of end credits music.

that's... exactly what I said my man
Y'all should try actually reading comments before responding to them

[shadowgigan]

I don't see it as an abrupt change of tone. Hayashida clearly possessed a complex view of Godzilla, which he exhibits in many of his conversations with Goro Maki. I thought that was one of the things that really worked in this film. Godzilla comes across as both a threat that clearly needs to be dealt with and a tragic and innocent creature.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

I really like the end credits pop song.

[LegendZilla]

Rest in peace Professor Hayashida...

[The One and Only]

In case anyone here was wondering what Mr. Martin's grandson was playing with when the scary Army guy showed up. I now introduce you the short-lived toyline called, ROBOSTRUX.

[Godzillian]

In case anyone here was wondering what Mr. Martin's grandson was playing with when the scary Army guy showed up. I now introduce you the short-lived toyline called, ROBOSTRUX.

Aka the Gojulas Zoid model

[Kenpachiro Hirata]

Rest in peace Professor Hayashida...

81 years... Good run.
Especially considering that G84 was his last film.

[G-Matt]

Rest in peace Professor Hayashida...

81 years... Good run.
Especially considering that G84 was his last film.

It was his last in the Godzilla series, but he still did some movies after that, like Monster X Strikes Back: Attack the G8 Summit.

[GigaGoji]

I have yet to see the American cut of this film, and I love the original Japanese version to death. How good is the American cut? What do you guys think?

[Zarm]

It has its pluses and minuses. In certain cuts and edits, it is quicker-paced and a bit better, but of course other plotlines and a lot of the politics are dropped. I wouldn't call this a situation like Godzilla 2000, where the American version seems superior, or the original where the Japanese version trumps its American remake. Instead, with Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985, it really comes down to what you're looking for in the film. Each film bring something different to the table.