GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)

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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby Crazy Jim Films » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:55 am

Living Corpse wrote:
Another negative that ties with your biggest one in first place is the monster is really cool and had it been given it's own identity it could have become a decently known or even famous monster with it's own fanbase like Godzilla, King Kong, Cloverfiled. But they didn't give it it's own identity instead they slapped Godzilla's name on it. What could have been a well loved monster is instead a despised film creature with batcrazy fanboys.

I almost feel bad for GINO :( . Given it's own identity it probably would have been a hit but sadly he has shitty "parents" cause D&E wanted to do their own thing but still named their own "child" Godzilla instead of giving it it's own name.

What a shame.

I kind of doubt all that. It just plain isn't a good movie and had too much going against it to ever really be that big of a hit. The famous brand name got the asses in the seats. The dissapointment was justified, no matter what you call the flick.
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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby Varan 1958 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:34 pm

I also forgot to mention that when GINO was on the bridge, he was destroying the cables supporting the bridge easily, yet he somehow gets stuck in them? It doesn't really make sense AT ALL. Then again, he IS a crappy monster being beaten by an ORDINARY army.
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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby Cimmerian Dragon » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:53 pm

^Not to mention that the bridge should have dropped into the river with its support cables snapped and a goddamn giant monster slamming down on it.
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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby Living Corpse » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:23 pm

Varan 1958 wrote:I also forgot to mention that when GINO was on the bridge, he was destroying the cables supporting the bridge easily, yet he somehow gets stuck in them? It doesn't really make sense AT ALL. Then again, he IS a crappy monster being beaten by an ORDINARY army.


Cimmerian Dragon wrote:^Not to mention that the bridge should have dropped into the river with its support cables snapped and a goddamn giant monster slamming down on it.



That's like the final slap in the face this film did. Since when does Godzilla get stuck in bridges? The very first film shows that he doesn't get stuck in bridges, he skreeonk picks them up and throws them or flips them over. And the missiles? I don't even need to say whats wrong here.
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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby shinmattiathekaiju » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:00 am

Living Corpse wrote:
Varan 1958 wrote:I also forgot to mention that when GINO was on the bridge, he was destroying the cables supporting the bridge easily, yet he somehow gets stuck in them? It doesn't really make sense AT ALL. Then again, he IS a crappy monster being beaten by an ORDINARY army.


Cimmerian Dragon wrote:^Not to mention that the bridge should have dropped into the river with its support cables snapped and a goddamn giant monster slamming down on it.



That's like the final slap in the face this film did. Since when does Godzilla get stuck in bridges? The very first film shows that he doesn't get stuck in bridges, he skreeonk picks them up and throws them or flips them over. And the missiles? I don't even need to say whats wrong here.


This made me watch again your riffed version of GINO.

It didn't help that GINO appaers only in few scenes.
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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby DaddlerTheDalek » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:40 pm

I know G98 is far from Perfect. But I like it. Some nice Action & Special Effects Scenes. GINO/Zilla looks Cool & I like to watch this Movie. But I want The American Reboot to be much better & way more faithful to The Japanese Godzilla! :g2k:
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Re: The American Godzilla: Negatives

Postby HikizuruBeat » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:09 pm

I actually liked the American Godzilla design wise and movie.
I don't view it as a godzilla movie though I just see it as just an original American Kaiju.
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Zilla...

Postby Mincecraft » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:25 pm

Roland Emmerich is a name shunned everywhere in the Godzilla fandom, having raped the name with his 1998 remake of Godzilla after Toho went to the trouble of killing him just so the remake could be made.

Not being a fan, yet taking on the project, he took the key elements of the character and flushed them down the s****er. Even the general public was un-impressed with the interpretation.

Now, this needs no introduction, but I want to bring something up that you may not have thought about...

The first Big G movie I watched happened to be Zilla. Coincidentally, Godzilla 2000 came next. Now, the way I see it, Zilla introduced me to the name and series. Im not proposing that Zilla is amazing, but isn't he really the way Godzilla got the attention in the west from this generation of moviegoers? The American film is easy to find, so he could actually be the way many new fans were born!

Maybe you agree, maybe not. Maybe you hate me for speaking such blasphemy, so be it. Your opinion.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Rai'drik » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:48 pm

I'd agree with this fairly well in some cases. I myself was first introduced to Godzilla through a edited 'kid friendly' version of the Tristar film my dad made me on VHS (cut out baby zilla scenes and he cut it to make it look like the subs killed Zilla sr.), and I ended up watching G2k in theaters. I loved it so much I looked up the reason 'Godzilla' looked and acted so differently in the two movies, and that lead me to the '54 film. And the rest is history.

Now that I'm older, I can recite all the toho monsters by heart, own all the godzilla films and several other toho monster movies; I've given the series a more thorough overview. I don't like the Tristar movie as much as I did as a little kid, but for what it is; its a decent movie. I just call it a monster film, not a Godzilla film; and that helps.

If you just removed the word 'Godzilla' and retitled it as 'The Beast from 20,000 fathom', hell; I'd love it for the pop corn entertainment it is and call it one of the best sci-fi remakes of the 80s-90s.

The name Godzilla seemed slapped on for marketing value. It was there for the name, and only the name. But, even though it pissed off G-fans and Toho associates everywhere; the ending was positive. Not only did you have a new generation get introduced to 'Godzilla' (one way or another), but you also had arguable retaliation from Toho in the form of 'Godzilla 2000'. The powerkeg had been lit, and now the timing and opportunity were perfect to introduce hundreds of children everywhere to the big guy.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby NSZ » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:01 pm

Rai'drik wrote:If you just removed the word 'Godzilla' and retitled it as 'The Beast from 20,000 fathom', hell; I'd love it for the pop corn entertainment it is and call it one of the best sci-fi remakes of the 80s-90s.


It would still be an incredible butcher job, having only the Beast's most basic premise in common (y'know, like Godzilla). And then there's GINO's design, as it is further removed from the Rhedosaurus than it was Godzilla. I know everyone's entitled to an opinion, and opinions can't be wrong due to... technicalities. But, I'm gonna have to call wrong on this one.

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Re: Zilla...

Postby Rai'drik » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:23 pm

NSZ wrote:
Rai'drik wrote:If you just removed the word 'Godzilla' and retitled it as 'The Beast from 20,000 fathom', hell; I'd love it for the pop corn entertainment it is and call it one of the best sci-fi remakes of the 80s-90s.


It would still be an incredible butcher job, having only the Beast's most basic premise in common (y'know, like Godzilla). And then there's GINO's design, as it is further removed from the Rhedosaurus than it was Godzilla. I know everyone's entitled to an opinion, and opinions can't be wrong due to... technicalities. But, I'm gonna have to call wrong on this one.

*Not shown: the biggest expletive filled tirade and rant this side of the Mississippi River*



Yes though I was meaning to argue that the story of BF20kF is much more 'pliable' then that of 'Gojira'. It has much fewer requirements to fill

1. Amphibious monster attacks New York in Broad day light
2. Monster first attacks oceanic structures prior to the New York attack
3. Monster can be harmed by military
4. Monster dies after getting caught up in a structure of some kind

So story wise, if you take the bare bones; 'Godzilla' does fit 'BF20kF' better then it does 'Gojira'. Now, design wise it is still a mess (both storyline/acting wise and in regards to GINO compared to Rheno); and in in value of the movies, I still say 'BF20kF' kicks the 1998 flick's saggy, scaly *** all the way to London.
I'm just saying I think that because there were fewer requirements to fill, 'Godzilla 1998' wouldn't have shook the hornet's nest nearly as much if it was a remake of 'BF20kF' then trying to be Godzilla
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Re: Zilla...

Postby XxComablack1937xX » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:31 am

If Zilla was actually a good movie (which is all a matter of opinion) i might not object with this so much. This movie to me was a disaster of course those are mostly the films Emmerich makes but even if it wasn't titled ''Godzilla'' an titled ''Beast from 20,000 fathoms'' it would still be a disappointment just not near as big.

Sure, promotion an the huge marketing was great for the Godzilla franchise, but once the film was released you see just how quickly that died. An unless you were/are young when you view this movie the chances of you enjoying it are extremely slim. So i guess i see your point... If your younger you'll enjoy it an as it's easy to find then yes it's an easy way to get people into Godzilla.

Personally i'd start with G-54, G-84, GMK, G-vs-B (1989), an Ghidorah the three headed monster long before G-98.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:59 am

GINO bombing is why we never got the 5th and final Godzilla book from the Random House series. People stopped buying Godzilla related products. GINO fanboys have argued with me that it helped bring the Heisei films over here on VHS but the thing was it didn't matter if it was GINO or a real Godzilla film cause they brought the Heisei films here on VHS to cash in on the film.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Mincecraft » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:39 am

Well, I have a bit of catching up to do. Thanks for the feedback.

That edited version musta been quite short Rai'drik (and probably cut the bull***t down a bit). I find it common that people watch Zilla and then find G2K, theatre or home video. The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms is a common comparison as well, and I like your list of similarities. But still, maybe the "Godzilla" content failing is what brought us more attention. The general audience said it was a rip-off of Jurassic Park (indeed). Still, for what it is, it's a good movie, popcorn entertainment.

NSZ, yes it was terrible either way. In no way could Zilla pass off as the beast (hmm, Fantasy Match idea).

Comablack, your right in the way of it numbing the pain if it was a Beast remake, but then we wouldn't have the Millenium series :angel: .

And Living Corpse, yes, I don't think they wouldnt bring the Heisei series if Zilla wasnt made. More money either way.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Tyler » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:47 am

Mincecraft wrote:Toho renamed the monster in outrage to Zilla


No, he's just called that in Final Wars. When it comes to GINO and the cartoon he's still copyrighted as Godzilla.

And I wouldn't exactly call the Millennium series revenge. G2K was made while Sony figured out what they wanted to do. The Heisei series had made a lot of money so Godzilla's name still meant $$. I guess when Sony decided not to continue the series Toho went ahead and did two more movies, then when GMK was such a hit they continued until Godzilla's 50th.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Mincecraft » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:52 am

Tyler wrote:
Mincecraft wrote:Toho renamed the monster in outrage to Zilla


No, he's just called that in Final Wars. When it comes to GINO and the cartoon he's still copyrighted as Godzilla.

And I wouldn't exactly call the Millennium series revenge. G2K was made while Sony figured out what they wanted to do. The Heisei series had made a lot of money so Godzilla's name still meant $$. I guess when Sony decided not to continue the series Toho went ahead and did two more movies, then when GMK was such a hit they continued until Godzilla's 50th.


Thank you. This is all coming from what I heard.

Though Toho was no doubt pissed at what happened...
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Tohosaurus » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:24 pm

Yes, GINO did unquestionably introduce people to the Toho Godzilla franchise and all. The downer, though, is in considering how much more successful it would've been had GINO been an actual "good" movie and a "good" Godzilla movie. GINO wasn't a terrible film IMO, but it was a below par effort on two fronts. For one, the movie itself was not that compelling. Niko and Audrey had zero chemistry throughout the film, most of the humor fell flat (then again it did in G2K too), and there was nothing mentionable that would engage the viewer. In other words, there was no charm, much less outright quality. The second front was that it wasn't a good Godzilla monster. Broderick himself had that line in the movie, "He's just an animal." But obviously that completely misses the point of Godzilla. Godzilla is a character too, but he was not treated like one here. Much worse, the look and nature of the monster was completely different. So it was really just a giant monster movie (and on the occasions that I do watch it I watch it simply as a daikaiju flick, not a Godzilla movie). Emmerich and Devlin were not Godzilla fans and it didn't take long for Devlin to admit that. They -especially Emmerich- are known for their popcorn flicks. I suspect when they finally did accept the project they planned merely on using the Godzilla name to cash in on rather than make a Godzilla movie. But this has all been said before, so I'll leave it there.

Mincecraft wrote:Thank you. This is all coming from what I heard.

Though Toho was no doubt pissed at what happened...

Sure it did. If I recall correctly, Toho had not planned to make another Godzilla film for about 10 years once they completed Godzilla vs Destoroyah and had laid the Heisei series to rest. With the backlash of GINO Toho seemingly found many reasons to bring the Japanese Godzilla back, hence 1999's Godzilla 2000 (or 2000 for us). Sad thing is we received a string of lazy efforts on Toho's part, but at least we got GMK out of it. More interesting to me is the fact that Tri-Star was still planning on going ahead with a GINO sequel. It's not necessarily surprising, considering it still did rake in $380M. A decent sequel could've still brought in hundreds of milions and continued the flow of cash for a franchise name that Tri-Star probably paid good money to use. So the 2000 sequel to GINO would've meant we'd have had two Godzilla timelines at once. Supposedly Tri-Star attempted to secure the rights to Mothra and/or King Ghidorah; Toho, possibly out of a lack of faith after GINO and probably because they like green, wanted too much money and Tri-Star let it go. The whole GINO sequel project was scapped in due time too, and as we all know the rights expired in 2003. Now it's Legendary's turn.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:29 pm

Yeah. While it did get some to look at other G films like Tohosarus said it also turned others off from the rest of the series and not even give a chance. We could have had more fans.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Mincecraft » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:41 pm

Well, where to start...

Tohosaurus, nice to see you know the history. "Just an animal" my ass. I am always perplexed why Emmerich did this film, not being a fan. Did he want to just flat out humiliate us? He gave more reason to make fun of G fans. You have to have a passion to remake a film well.

Two outcomes are possible for Legendary's movie:

1. Its amazing, a commercial and critical success.
2.It sucks hard and Toho makes more (more likely?).

And Corpse, I think that fans would reassure the public that this is nowhere near the real G.
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Re: Zilla...

Postby Tohosaurus » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:03 pm

Mincecraft wrote:Well, where to start...

Tohosaurus, nice to see you know the history. "Just an animal" my ass. I am always perplexed why Emmerich did this film, not being a fan. Did he want to just flat out humiliate us? He gave more reason to make fun of G fans. You have to have a passion to remake a film well.

Two outcomes are possible for Legendary's movie:

1. Its amazing, a commercial and critical success.
2.It sucks hard and Toho makes more (more likely?).

And Corpse, I think that fans would reassure the public that this is nowhere near the real G.

I believe Emmerich actually turned down the Tri-Star Godzilla project at least once if not twice before finally taking it on. Should've been a clue to begin with, eh? The problem from the onset was that they were not fans nor did they try to pay tribute to the franchise at any point.

As for Legendary's movie, it could go many ways but most outcomes probably have Toho making some Godzilla movies in the future. The Millennium films didn't do all that well so Toho is unlikely to just jump into making some of them again, but they certainly might. At least that's my guess.
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