Godzilla in the Criterion Collection?!

[Gojira-Fan]

I never noticed any cropping in the widescreen Simitar, and if there is any, it's nowhere near as bad as the cropping done by both Monsters HD and Classic Media.

Here are two comparison shots:

Simitar: http://www.tohokingdom.com/dvd/images/g ... gmz_s3.htm

Classic Media: http://www.tohokingdom.com/dvd/images/i ... /im_c3.htm

The cropping on the sides is fairly subtle in the Simitar version, but I think I prefer cropping during credits and titles and in one shot (CM), while otherwise retaining the original aspect ratio, rather than mild cropping throughout the entire film and the video quality looking like ass to boot (Simitar).

[Tamura]

The cropping seen on the Simitar is so subtle that it's immaterial. And it's not like they intentionally cropped it, like Classic Media. I'll take accuracy and consistency instead, thank you.

Couldn't CM have tried tracking down the scope print which provided the basis for Monsters HD's cropped version? They wouldn't have needed to scan the entire print, since the unique picture information in the US version amounts to about a minute or two. They could have scanned just those bits from the scope print, dropped them into Toho's transfer, conformed the editing to match the US and that would have been preferable.

[Goji]

Yeah..I mean, the point is (as it's been since the beginning of all this MONSTER ZERO talk), the presentation of the the Simitar disk more closely matches the original UPA version. End of story. Obviously it doesn't look outstanding. It's nearly 15 years old, from back when the DVD format was in it's infancy.

[Proofpoochie]

Also, the Classic Media discs are filled with digital anomalies like artifacting. This is REALLY noticable when shown on a Blu-ray player that upscales DVDs to 1080p. Even the Japanese versions have TONS of DNR, artifacts, etc.

[Ethan]

I'm also wondering why would Classic Media remove the MPAA logo from Godzilla's Revenge, it's as if they needed to modify the film in a way or another.

[Tamura]

Most of Classic Media's US versions begin with brand spanking new fade-ins for some reason. No idea what that's about. Could they have been imposed upon by Toho? It's especially awkward with respect to GODZILLA VS. THE THING because some of the music is missing.

[Gojira-Fan]

^ Classic Media never claimed it was trying to restore the films.

Honestly, the changes CM made to MONSTER ZERO where pretty miniscule. Just some titles and one shot stretched/cropped. Would I prefer that those titles and one shot weren't stretched/cropped? Hell yes. But the video quality is much more important to me than a few title credits and one shot being cropped and stretched; and I'm glad they didn't use the crappy print that Simitar used.

[Ethan]

I wish people would stop using the term print to refer transfers. A nice anamorphic transfer of the same print used by Simitar, would probably look better than what Toho gave us.

[Gojira-Fan]

I wish people would stop using the term print to refer transfers. A nice anamorphic transfer of the same print used by Simitar, would probably look better than what Toho gave us.

Have you seen the print Simitar used? It was dark, murky, colors were washed out and it was covered in scratches.

It wouldn't have looked better unless restored.

[Joseph Goodman]

The Simitar "Godzilla Vs. Mothra" is so badly encoded that you can see comression artifacting in the letterbox bars! The other real pisser about the Simitar discs is that the short clips in the trivia games are *much* better encoded than the actual features themselves... I swear that I'm not smoking crack on this.


Also, there's some very oddly specific differences in color between the Simitar widescreen "Godzilla Vs. The Thing" and every other transfer of that film, so specific that I think that it may be due to improper color grading, rather than fading. I don't have captures or times handy, but check out the scene where Takarada & Hoshi are getting "decontaminated"... on every other transfer of this film, the chambers are filled with purple gas. On the Simitar disc, the smoke is uncolored, and there's no purple color cast visible through the chamber windows, as if they aren't standing in colored light or gas at all. There's also a shot of the incubator for Mothra's egg, which is at sunset on every other transfer, but on the Simitar disc, it's graded as if it's a moonlit shot. Notice also that the last two reels of the film on the Simitar disc (which start when plans A-B-C are being described) have perfectly normal color.

The scenarios that could account for these rather specific differences could be either someone unfamiliar with the look of the film acting as telecine colorist, or they are the result of trying to compensate for some kind of fading. I suppose that if the Simitar transfer was sourced from a faded interpositive, some of these color differences might make sense. With normal color film, the yellow emulsion layer fades first, leaving the cyan as the next to go, and at the end, the magenta layer. On an interpositve, a faded yellow layer would leave the cyan and magenta layers, giving an overall purplish cast (as opposed to a fading yellow layer leaving a sickly yellow/greenish cast over a faded camera negative or internegative). Supposing this was the case with this element, whoever was doing the transfer may have tried to desaturate a purplish cast, causing the color shifts seen. The problem with this guess is that I have no idea how such a situation could explain the shots where Godzilla's breath is purple, or where the bright blue on the scale found at the beach becomes purple. "Who among us can tell?"

[Ethan]

It's been awhile since I've seen that disc (it's probably in my basement). However I don't recall the print looking any dirtier than Toho's "restored" product. As far as the colors and contrast are concerned, it's because of the compression. I have no doubt of that.

[Tamura]

For the record, Toho's HD version of MONSTER ZERO is sometimes fairly dirty itself.

[Goji]

Okay, all of this back and fourth is really getting pretty silly. I'm just really not sure where GojiraFan is going with all of this..The whole point all along was that the Simitar disc is a great representation of the UPA version, regardless of quality.

Bottom line: The Simitar release isn't very good, but it is the UPA version. The CM release also isn't that great, and is mearly 'watchable', but the praise really ends there. It still uses a transfer of Toho's version which is anything but impressive, and also has its fair share of compression issues. It's nothing to write home about.

My point is, none of the home video releases of MONSTER ZERO are really satisfactory. Both have issues.

[Gojira-Fan]

^ I admit I'm sort of derailing the thread. However, the point I was trying to make is that the Classic Media DVD is superior to the Simitar disc, and I actually find the video quality on the disc satisfactory and that the stretched credits don't have enough of an effect on me as a viewer to really care about them.

Maybe I should be more picky about the video quality, but I think it looks good enough. Would I like it to look better? Yes. Would I like Criterion to pick up MONSTER ZERO and release it on DVD/Blu-Ray? Hell Yes!

...but the likelihood of that happening is slim (I think kpa even said that upper-management had no interest in the rest of the series). And despite the picture being DNRed, soft and having a yellow-tint, I think it still looks nice (especially for a film of its age).

[Tamura]

I'd kill to see all the US and international versions presented the same way Toho does their transfers of the Japanese versions, as much as I dislike those. We would get sloppy color timing and soft picture, but the editing and original aspect ratios would be retained, the presentation would be consistent (no bits sourced from videotape or cropped transfers), and everything would be accurate and just like what was seen originally... just not the best looking.

Anywayyyyy, about that Criterion GODZILLA. Isn't it awesome? I wish they could do the rest of the UPAs.

[JVM]

Why would anyone buy the Classic Media discs to begin with?

[Gojira-Fan]

Why would anyone buy the Classic Media discs to begin with?

Because it's the best legal option in terms of video quality (other than for GODZILLA).

And the commentaries are pretty awesome also.

[Goji]

Why would anyone buy the Classic Media discs to begin with?

You're telling me you own none of them by this point?

They're far, far from perfect, but still your only option of really watching the films outside of prints, and torrents of Toho's mediocre-as-hell "HD" transfers.

The things that are wrong with them aren't going to bother a majority of people. I would still recommend them people who aren't 'videophiles', and are just interested in seeing the films. People like me, Tamura, and a handful of others just want to see these films eventually presented in the same way the Critereon's GODZILLA release was, especially the English versions, which are in dire need of preservation.

[JVM]

I'm not saying I don't own them. I'm just questioning why people would still want them now, years later.

They were fine at their original release, but they're pretty dated in comparison to the vast majority of other Godzilla releases, especially since these came out. The only real draw was the dual Japanese and American versions, and that hurt the releases more than helped in the long run, as nice a feature as it was initially.

[Tohosaurus]

I'm not saying I don't own them. I'm just questioning why people would still want them now, years later.

They were fine at their original release, but they're pretty dated in comparison to the vast majority of other Godzilla releases, especially since these came out. The only real draw was the dual Japanese and American versions, and that hurt the releases more than helped in the long run, as nice a feature as it was initially.

Because there still are no better options or new options at all unless you want to A) Mess with your DVD player unlocking codes, etc, or buy a region free/specific DVD player OR B) Buy a region A BRD from YesAsia or wherever for some of the movies available ... which don't have English subs IIRC. Oh, and the BRDs there tend to exceed $70 a movie.

The Classic Media discs are not perfect and hardcore fans will whine about something in every release anyway. But the CM releases do have a lot of great things about them and as an entire package would a vast improvement over the prior CM releases (I have that box too) and anything prior. Now am I saying I don't care for a full HD update with BRD choices as well? Course not.