Godzilla in the Criterion Collection?!

[Ethan]

That's awful. I thought with Criterion's restoration we would never see the Godzilla, Kind of the Monsters! video master again.

[Goji]

There's absolutely no doubt it sold like hotcakes, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it was Criterion's best seller or most highly pre-ordered movie.

It seems that CM has put "updated" versions of their imperfect US version presentations on Netflix. MONSTER ZERO has the opening titles properly stretched to Tohoscope (unfortunately, everything else wrong with the reconstruction is retained), GODZILLA, KING OF THE MONSTERS! has the Trans World logo added back (matted, though), and the prologue to TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA, already matted to 1.78:1 from a pan-n-scan fullscreen print, has been stretched to the main feature's monstrously wide aspect ratio of 2.57:1.

I'm surprised they fixed MONSTER ZERO's titles, but like you said, it still has all the same problems that plague the CM disk. Watching it via streaming will just make it look even worse too.

TERROR's prologue sounds gross looking. I'm already not a fan of it (because it's overlong), but that would just make it unwatchable for me.

What I would like more than anything is for all the Toho Classic Medias to revert back to Toho, to be sold/leased to another company like Criterion or Synapse, etc.

Seriously. I wonder when CM's contract expires...

[kpa]

What I would like more than anything is for all the Toho Classic Medias to revert back to Toho, to be sold/leased to another company like Criterion or Synapse, etc.

Seriously. I wonder when CM's contract expires...

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Toho considers Classic Media to be continuation of UPA's licensing of these titles which dates back to (at least) the 1980s. CM renewed license back in 2005-06 so the rights likely won't be up for renewal for another 8-10 years (and probably longer). And, as long as CM is willing to pay the periodic renewal fees, Toho will almost definitely let them keep the films. Toho prefers the guaranteed check over the hassle of reaquiring the films and having to sell them again, even though the CM titles would probably be an easier sell than a lot of other Toho movies.

One possible plus to this is that Classic Media, Toho and Criterion have already collaborated on the GODZILLA DVD/Blu-ray so they could do so again if Criterion wanted to release any of the other CM Toho titles. The negative is that Criterion so far isn't interested in any other Godzilla/Toho FX films. Some of the Criterion guys are fans of the Toho "Golden Age" movies like RODAN and THE MYSTERIANS, but the upper management was only interested in GODZILLA.

I'm curious, where did the news first break about GODZILLA being one of Critereon's best sellers? (I originally heard it had the most pre-orders ever for the compay, though Imagined it was some kind of exaggeration). I've never seen a source for any of this stuff.

I suspect that rumor was just a mistake. When it first surfaced I asked Criterion about it and they said they didn't know anything about it.

[Goji]

Rats..thanks for the info kpa. Very much appreciated!

[omgitsgodzilla]

Out of curiosity, beyond a softer picture and digitally reconstructed newspaper headlines, what are the problems with CM's Monster Zero reconstruction?

[Tamura]

There are a number of problems. I'll list all in chronological order:


1. The picture is interlaced.

2. The UPA logo and opening credits, sourced from the Monsters HD version, are left squeezed.

3. The title immediately after the opening credits ("A mysterious planet has been discovered beyond Jupiter...") is heavily cropped on all sides. It was taken from the cropped MHD and cropped further on the top and bottom. It may even be stretched/squeezed, but don't quote me.

4. Most of the picture is sourced from Toho's archaic transfer of the Japanese version, which, along with the very great majority of Toho's video presentations, is not up to the standards set by small companies like Synapse, Blue Underground, Something Weird, et al. or even the efforts made by Ben Solovey to restore "MANOS" THE HANDS OF FATE.

5. The "LAKE MYOJIN" and "WASHIGASAWA" titles are video generated and, in addition to exhibiting none of the characteristics found in optical text, simply don't look like the originals.

6. At one point during the battle on Planet X, the sound goes out of sync. This leads me to believe other parts may also be synced incorrectly.

7. The newspaper headlines were taken from the cropped MHD and cropped further on the bottom and top.

8. The shots of Namikawa's note were taken from the MHD and stretched out to Tohoscope, so basically it's stretched and cropped.


All I can say is... this isn't how it's supposed to be done. It's abhorrent.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Damn. I never realized all this, but it's been a while since I watched it. Sounds almost as bad as the FCTW job... Reminds me a bit of the obviously video generated "The End" title placed below the Japanese end title card in Terror of Mechagodzilla. Makes me wonder what else they screwed up on their US versions.

[Tohosaurus]

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Toho considers Classic Media to be continuation of UPA's licensing of these titles which dates back to (at least) the 1980s. CM renewed license back in 2005-06 so the rights likely won't be up for renewal for another 8-10 years (and probably longer). And, as long as CM is willing to pay the periodic renewal fees, Toho will almost definitely let them keep the films. Toho prefers the guaranteed check over the hassle of reaquiring the films and having to sell them again, even though the CM titles would probably be an easier sell than a lot of other Toho movies.

One possible plus to this is that Classic Media, Toho and Criterion have already collaborated on the GODZILLA DVD/Blu-ray so they could do so again if Criterion wanted to release any of the other CM Toho titles. The negative is that Criterion so far isn't interested in any other Godzilla/Toho FX films. Some of the Criterion guys are fans of the Toho "Golden Age" movies like RODAN and THE MYSTERIANS, but the upper management was only interested in GODZILLA.

Thanks for that insight. You're seriously one of the very most valuable posters on this board.

As for the rights business, I just wish the movies would eventually fall under one company's hands, which would provide the opportunity for consistent aesthetics and sweet box sets. Oh, to dream ...

[kkawachi]

Realistically, the only other Godzilla movie I could see Criterion touching is King Kong vs Godzilla. Two distinct versions, lots of history, first color and stereo G film...

Now Toho sci-fi, I could see Rodan/Mothra and Mysterians/BIOS sets, as well as The Three Treasures all getting consideration.

Also Half Human, H-Man, Telegian and Vapor would make a killer set.

[Tamura]

I bet you HALF HUMAN will be made available at some point when we least expect it.

[Chris55]

I bet you HALF HUMAN will be made available at some point when we least expect it.

How about now, cuz I'm totally not expecting it

[Space Hunter M]

Well, I least expect a tree laden with apple pies will sprout outside of my house.
A cookie for anyone who gets the reference.

[Gojira-Fan]

There are a number of problems. I'll list all in chronological order:


1. The picture is interlaced.

2. The UPA logo and opening credits, sourced from the Monsters HD version, are left squeezed.

3. The title immediately after the opening credits ("A mysterious planet has been discovered beyond Jupiter...") is heavily cropped on all sides. It was taken from the cropped MHD and cropped further on the top and bottom. It may even be stretched/squeezed, but don't quote me.

4. Most of the picture is sourced from Toho's archaic transfer of the Japanese version, which, along with the very great majority of Toho's video presentations, is not up to the standards set by small companies like Synapse, Blue Underground, Something Weird, et al. or even the efforts made by Ben Solovey to restore "MANOS" THE HANDS OF FATE.

5. The "LAKE MYOJIN" and "WASHIGASAWA" titles are video generated and, in addition to exhibiting none of the characteristics found in optical text, simply don't look like the originals.

6. At one point during the battle on Planet X, the sound goes out of sync. This leads me to believe other parts may also be synced incorrectly.

7. The newspaper headlines were taken from the cropped MHD and cropped further on the bottom and top.

8. The shots of Namikawa's note were taken from the MHD and stretched out to Tohoscope, so basically it's stretched and cropped.


All I can say is... this isn't how it's supposed to be done. It's abhorrent.

EDIT:

I did a comparison of both discs at the scenes/shots you mentioned. I have to conclude that the CM DVD is better, especially considering the budget they had. My comparison is in the same number order as yours.

1. I'm not too sure of this, but I believe the Simitar disc doesn't have interlacing.

2. The Simitar disc doesn't have the opening UPA credits squeezed. The CM DVD also appears to be in a different aspect ratio for the opening credits.

3. The Simitar version isn't cropped, while the CM version is.

4. While the video transfer used on CM's DVD is soft, has a yellow tint as is probably DNRed up the wazoo, it looks much better than the Simitar disc. The simitar disc is dark and murky, has much more print damage and is very heavily compressed. The video quality is comparable to watching MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE in 240p on Youtube. You can see much more detail in the CM disc, and it just looks better.

5. I don't know what gave you the idea that the titles were video-generated, but I did a side by side comparison of the Simitar DVD and the CM DVD and the titles look exactly the same. Even if they are video-generated on the CM DVD I wouldn't have noticed. I wish I had the capabilities to put up screenshots for comparison, but I don't.

6. Tamura, could you be more specific in regards to when the sound goes out of synch? I didn't notice that at all while watching the battle on Planet X.

7. The Simitar DVD has the Newspaper headlines not cropped, the CM does.

8. Same as above, the CM DVD has it stretched and cropped, the Simitar version doesn't.

Honestly, the only problems you mentioned that hold water is the some titles being cropped/squeezed/stretched and the video being interlaced. I can't say I mind either too much.

And maybe the video quality isn't as good as it could be, but I know Classic Media didn't have the resources to pull off a true restoration of an actual American MONSTER ZERO print. I'm glad they at least attempted to provide the best video quality they had (the Toho transfer) rather than just using a crappy US print (like what they did with GODZILLA VS. THE THING).

[Goji]

Well, I think you have your answer. The Simitar disk is an extremely old DVD, so the quality isn't great, but it is a much better representatn of the UPA version. The CM disk has all of the problems Tamura listed. It really comes down to what bothers you the least, on a personal level, since both aren't without their share of problems.

[Tamura]

The widescreen side of the Simitar DVD is automatically superior to the Classic Media because it maintains a consistent and accurate presentation from beginning to end and isn't cobbled together from sources of varying aspect ratios. As far as I can tell, it's the unaltered US theatrical version so, regardless of picture quality, the Simitar is a better presentation.

I never noticed any cropping in the widescreen Simitar, and if there is any, it's nowhere near as bad as the cropping done by both Monsters HD and Classic Media.

[Gojira-Fan]

I never noticed any cropping in the widescreen Simitar, and if there is any, it's nowhere near as bad as the cropping done by both Monsters HD and Classic Media.

Here are two comparison shots:

Simitar: http://www.tohokingdom.com/dvd/images/g ... gmz_s3.htm

Classic Media: http://www.tohokingdom.com/dvd/images/i ... /im_c3.htm

The cropping on the sides is fairly subtle in the Simitar version, but I think I prefer cropping during credits and titles and in one shot (CM), while otherwise retaining the original aspect ratio, rather than mild cropping throughout the entire film and the video quality looking like ass to boot (Simitar).

[Tamura]

The cropping seen on the Simitar is so subtle that it's immaterial. And it's not like they intentionally cropped it, like Classic Media. I'll take accuracy and consistency instead, thank you.

Couldn't CM have tried tracking down the scope print which provided the basis for Monsters HD's cropped version? They wouldn't have needed to scan the entire print, since the unique picture information in the US version amounts to about a minute or two. They could have scanned just those bits from the scope print, dropped them into Toho's transfer, conformed the editing to match the US and that would have been preferable.

[Goji]

Yeah..I mean, the point is (as it's been since the beginning of all this MONSTER ZERO talk), the presentation of the the Simitar disk more closely matches the original UPA version. End of story. Obviously it doesn't look outstanding. It's nearly 15 years old, from back when the DVD format was in it's infancy.

[Proofpoochie]

Also, the Classic Media discs are filled with digital anomalies like artifacting. This is REALLY noticable when shown on a Blu-ray player that upscales DVDs to 1080p. Even the Japanese versions have TONS of DNR, artifacts, etc.

[Ethan]

I'm also wondering why would Classic Media remove the MPAA logo from Godzilla's Revenge, it's as if they needed to modify the film in a way or another.