MonsterVerse on 4K

For the discussion of Toho DVDs, Blu-Rays, CDs, streaming services, VHS, and other formats where Toho films and soundtracks can be found.
User avatar
G1985
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1809
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:10 am

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by G1985 »

If you haven't preordered those Godzilla (2014) 4K Blu-ray disks yet, here's a little incentive, courtesy of comicbook.com.

Original Blu-ray release:
Image

4K version release:
Image

User avatar
omgitsgodzilla
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Soviet Nuclear Missile Satellite

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

That's a publicity still. Those have always looked better than the Blu-ray.

For direct comparison, the image from that article/tweet:

Image

And a lower-resolution but otherwise identical image from an article published in 2014:

Image

I don't know that the UHD won't be an improvement, but I don't think that's a screencap from the disc.
Last edited by omgitsgodzilla on Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
RED MENACE
Projects YouTube Patreon

airforce111
Interpol Agent
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:11 pm

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by airforce111 »

omgitsgodzilla wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:19 am That's a publicity still. Those have always looked better than the Blu-ray.

I don't know that the UHD won't be an improvement, but I don't think that's a screencap from the disc.
I was just about to post about this, I stumbled upon a post on reddit talking about this, it would be kind of dumb if true: https://old.reddit.com/r/GODZILLA/comme ... osting_4k/

So basically they're using old promotional material that already looked good from 2014, and tagging #4k on twitter. Its easy to see how misleading this is and I'm not sure if godzilla twitter is just clueless or they purposely are misleading and know what they're doing.

User avatar
omgitsgodzilla
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Soviet Nuclear Missile Satellite

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

I don't think they're being purposely misleading, but they are at best accidentally being misleading, for reasons that should be obvious. I don't think it's malicious, just very poorly thought out considering the specific PQ issues with this film in particular. It's probably a pretty standard approach to this sort of thing, and for most films it would be fine.

Godzilla fans being Godzilla fans, though, I'm not surprised to see u/killerinstinctmm getting very indignant about it
RED MENACE
Projects YouTube Patreon

User avatar
Chrispy_G
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1830
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 11:02 pm

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by Chrispy_G »

The 4K of G14 being a "OMG total night and day difference" over the Blu Ray would be nice. That isn't necessary, I won't be disappointed if it isn't some revolutionary difference/improvement.

The 2014 BR is far from 'unwatchable' or 'unbearable'...I would describe it as 'a little too dark', and that is on my currently totally average 40 inch 4K TV...that I will be upgrading to basically the best 55 inch 4K TV that is out there soon. I'm sure that will help SOME.

I would just like the 4K to be AN improvement. It doesn't need to change the world. Between the 4K, and the HDR pass...give me something a bit better than the BR. Even "This is 5-10% better/more clear/more vibrant/brighter" than the BR would be a worthwhile improvement. I'll only be "let down" if it feels like I get the EXACT same final image.
Last edited by Chrispy_G on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm saying a prayer, George. A prayer for the whole world."

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by _JNavs_ »

Chrispy_G wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:01 pm The 4K of G14 being a "OMG total night and day difference" over the Blu Ray would be nice. That isn't necessary, I won't be disappointed if it isn't some revolutionary difference/improvement.

The 2014 BR is far from 'unwatchable' or 'unbearable'...I would describe it as 'a little too dark', and that is on my currently totally average 40 inch 4K TV...that I will be upgrading to basically the best 55 inch 4K TV that is out there soon. I'm sure that will help SOME.

I would just like the 4K to be AN improvement. It doesn't need to change the world. Between the 4K, and the HDR pass...give me something a bit better than the BR. Even "This is 5-10% better/more clear/more vibrant/brighter" than the BR would be a worthwhile improvement. I'll only be "let down" if it feels like I get the EXACT same final image.
As someone with a 55" 4K who just recently rewatched the Blu Ray HDR G14, it literally looks very similar to what the 4K is being advertised as.

I said it in the other thread but, there seems to be a set of pics that have gone around of someones TV brightness on the bare minimum while watching the film, and apparently everyone is taking it as an actual example of the output of the film itself lol. A lot of folks seem to not realize the default settings on their TVs are not made with BR in mind, that takes some finagling with the TVs visual settings.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
omgitsgodzilla
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Soviet Nuclear Missile Satellite

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

If it were a matter of TVs just not being set up for the way Blu-rays are mastered, people would have the same problem with other Blu-rays.
Spoiler:
Image

Image

Image
These are screenshots directly from the Blu-ray. That isn't "very similar to what the 4K is being advertised as" and it isn't how movies normally look on Blu-ray. There isn't just some set of pictures floating around with someone's brightness turned down; look at the reviews from Toho Kingdom, Blu-ray.com, and DoBlu -- their screenshots all look the same way. It's great that your 4K TV's HDR enhancement can produce a good-looking image from that, or whatever's going on there, but that isn't just how it is on the disc.

I will grant that the Blu-ray tends to look better on a TV than screenshots do on websites, because there's nothing surrounding the image that's making full use of the screen's dynamic range. Without a white or very light background, the image looks dark, but not as absurdly dark. It isn't wholly unwatchable, but it is objectively mastered much darker than any trailers or footage used in extras, and I don't buy that that's just how it's supposed to look.
Last edited by omgitsgodzilla on Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
RED MENACE
Projects YouTube Patreon

User avatar
G1985
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1809
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:10 am

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by G1985 »

omgitsgodzilla wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:52 am If it were a matter of TVs just not being set up for the way Blu-rays are mastered, people would have the same problem with other Blu-rays....It's great that your 4K TV's HDR enhancement can produce a good-looking image from that, or whatever's going on there, but that isn't just how it is on the disc....I don't buy that that's just how it's supposed to look.
That's a great point. If the issue were the HDTV's factory settings, then *all* Blu-rays would look bad out of the box. I don't doubt the image can be improved by tweaking the settings, but out of 300+ Blu-rays I own, only Godzilla 2014 and Aliens vs Predator: Requiem are unwatchable due to crushed black levels, if that's the right term for it. If it were just the TV and not the disk, then the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy would be equally unwatchable, but it's not.

FWIW, I have a Sony active-3D HDTV, and watching the 3D Blu-ray version of Godzilla 2014 produces a far superior image - one that matches what I saw in the movie theater - than what I see with the standard Blu-ray version on that same set. I can't explain it, but the dynamic range (lighting,, color and contrast) is noticeably better when watching the 3D version on an active-3D set with active-3D glasses.

User avatar
Major sssspielberg!
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:48 am

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

So for those of us without 4K capabilities, has there been any word on this new 4K '14 release including a regular blu of the film that wasn't pressed in the Shadow Realm?
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

User avatar
omgitsgodzilla
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Soviet Nuclear Missile Satellite

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

I don't expect we'll find out until it's actually out, and I'm not holding my breath.

What might be worthwhile is using the UHD version as source material for a custom SDR grade. You'd have a lot more bits to work with than trying to manipulate the original or 3D Blu
RED MENACE
Projects YouTube Patreon

User avatar
Major sssspielberg!
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:48 am

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Man as much as I'd love to try and do something like that, not everyone has the capability to. I don't even have a PC right now nor the means to acquire one. It chafes my rhubarb that even the big Hollywood Godzilla gets a substandard home media release.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

User avatar
omgitsgodzilla
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Soviet Nuclear Missile Satellite

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

Oh, sorry, I was speaking hypothetically, not about you specifically! My bad
RED MENACE
Projects YouTube Patreon

airforce111
Interpol Agent
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:11 pm

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by airforce111 »

the point omgitsgodzilla is trying to make is, you shouldnt need special hardware or have to adjust your settings everytime you put this specific bluray in. its liking have a playlist of songs, and theres a badly mixed song thats super quiet and you have to adjust your volume to 100 everytime. ok you may say teh solution is "just adjust your volume", well you shouldnt have to. This is why mixing and mastering is a thing. this is why mastering video is a thing. so you dont have to fiddle with stuff everytime

User avatar
Major sssspielberg!
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:48 am

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

omgitsgodzilla wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:56 am Oh, sorry, I was speaking hypothetically, not about you specifically! My bad
No, I'm sorry. I wasn't meaning to come off salty towards what you said.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by _JNavs_ »

airforce111 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:16 pm the point omgitsgodzilla is trying to make is, you shouldnt need special hardware or have to adjust your settings everytime you put this specific bluray in. its liking have a playlist of songs, and theres a badly mixed song thats super quiet and you have to adjust your volume to 100 everytime. ok you may say teh solution is "just adjust your volume", well you shouldnt have to. This is why mixing and mastering is a thing. this is why mastering video is a thing. so you dont have to fiddle with stuff everytime
Except every TV is made with a completely different default set of settings. There is no way to maximize the visuals of your Blu Ray if you're not willing to adjust your TV settings to their max output. Blu Rays cannot just release a default output that looks fantastic on every modern TV model of numerous different brands.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

airforce111
Interpol Agent
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:11 pm

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by airforce111 »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:27 pm
airforce111 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:16 pm the point omgitsgodzilla is trying to make is, you shouldnt need special hardware or have to adjust your settings everytime you put this specific bluray in. its liking have a playlist of songs, and theres a badly mixed song thats super quiet and you have to adjust your volume to 100 everytime. ok you may say teh solution is "just adjust your volume", well you shouldnt have to. This is why mixing and mastering is a thing. this is why mastering video is a thing. so you dont have to fiddle with stuff everytime
Except every TV is made with a completely different default set of settings. There is no way to maximize the visuals of your Blu Ray if you're not willing to adjust your TV settings to their max output. Blu Rays cannot just release a default output that looks fantastic on every modern TV model of numerous different brands.
sure but theres a standard youre not willing to really understand. People master music to sound generally well on ALL types of devices (cars, shitty computer speakers, etc). In a general sense, it should sound good enough on all types of devices. Same with video mastering, in a standard general sense, you master so it will generally look well on all types of screens at default in mind. I agree, adjust your tv settings to teh best maximum output, but you are clearly missing the point that Godzilla 2014 Bluray takes it TO AN EXTREME.

Seriously, look at any night time shot of the direct digital file on the disc vs ANY OTHER bluray mastered disc. I'm saying, you shouldn't have to go the extra step for Godzilla, there is CLEARLY a brightness issue when you compare to other mastered blurays of that time (2014). You are entirely missing the point. I never said you dont adjust to maximize quality, my argument is you have to go way extra with Godzilla (2014) and thats what's being discussed here. You should'nt have to do that. But also, I think you should be able to generally see the picture of a bluray even without "maximizing" your settings because that's what mastering is all about. Most already look serviceable and well on any tv at default, Godzilla 2014 is not one of them. There's a reason people bring up the brightness issues, because its real. Yes we get it, the "adjust your brightness!" crowd always comes through, but that's clearly not the point and I don't think we will ever get through.

These video mastering people aren't going "meh, ill leave the rest to steve from the salami joint down the street to adjust and MAXIMIZE his tv settings and know about all this stuff so when I master I don't have to touch much. Joe the retiree will definitely love to tweak his brightness to max settings for this movie!". I get it, we like to fiddle with our settings and I do too, but the reality is MOST casuals aren't gonna mess that much with their settings, so these professionals will GENERALLY get it to look good on multiple references and monitors and test on general appliances.
Last edited by airforce111 on Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9647
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by _JNavs_ »

airforce111 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:55 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:27 pm
airforce111 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:16 pm the point omgitsgodzilla is trying to make is, you shouldnt need special hardware or have to adjust your settings everytime you put this specific bluray in. its liking have a playlist of songs, and theres a badly mixed song thats super quiet and you have to adjust your volume to 100 everytime. ok you may say teh solution is "just adjust your volume", well you shouldnt have to. This is why mixing and mastering is a thing. this is why mastering video is a thing. so you dont have to fiddle with stuff everytime
Except every TV is made with a completely different default set of settings. There is no way to maximize the visuals of your Blu Ray if you're not willing to adjust your TV settings to their max output. Blu Rays cannot just release a default output that looks fantastic on every modern TV model of numerous different brands.
sure but theres a standard youre not willing to really understand. People master music to sound generally well on ALL types of devices (cars, shitty computer speakers, etc). In a general sense, it should sound good enough on all types of devices. Same with video mastering, in a standard general sense, you master so it will generally look well on all types of screens at default in mind. I agree, adjust your tv settings to teh best maximum output, but you are clearly missing the point that Godzilla 2014 Bluray takes it TO AN EXTREME.

Seriously, look at any night time shot of the direct digital file on the disc vs ANY OTHER bluray mastered disc. I'm saying, you shouldn't have to go the extra step for Godzilla, there is CLEARLY a brightness issue when you compare to other mastered blurays of that time (2014). You are entirely missing the point. I never said you dont adjust to maximize quality, my argument is you have to go way extra with Godzilla (2014) and thats what's being discussed here. You should'nt have to do that. But also, I think you should be able to generally see the picture of a bluray even without "maximizing" your settings because that's what mastering is all about. Most already look serviceable and well on any tv at default, Godzilla 2014 is not one of them. There's a reason people bring up the brightness issues, because its real. Yes we get it, the "adjust your brightness!" crowd always comes through, but that's clearly not the point and I don't think we will ever get through.

These video mastering people aren't going "meh, ill leave the rest to steve from the salami joint down the street to adjust and MAXIMIZE his tv settings and know about all this stuff so when I master I don't have to touch much. Joe the retiree will definitely love to tweak his brightness to max settings for this movie!". I get it, we like to fiddle with our settings and I do too, but the reality is MOST casuals aren't gonna mess that much with their settings, so these professionals will GENERALLY get it to look good on multiple references and monitors and test on general appliances.
While there are points here I agree with, I just took these pictures of my TV with the default Theater filter/settings.

I just can't agree with the "it's way too dark even on base settings to the average Joe", this looks fine to me.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

airforce111
Interpol Agent
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:11 pm

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by airforce111 »

right I understand that, but it doesn't de-legitimize the many claims including myself that the master was just way too dark for us. We wouldn't be having so many people be hyped about a 4k restoration hoping to "fix" things because how dark the 1st release was, hoping it has some proper brightness. That's all. There are clearly big differences in the actual digital file itself vs promotional images of the same screenshots.

User avatar
Chrispy_G
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1830
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 11:02 pm

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by Chrispy_G »

We're only a short time away from either reading expert reviews on the 4K disc relative to the BR, or from getting screen grabs from both being compared in a consistent and unbiased way....OR worst possible scenario, we are only a little bit away from some(all? Many?) of us getting this disc for ourselves and truly checking it out with out own eyes.

So I don't know if we need to get too heated in discussion about just how good/not good the BR was and how much/little the 4K disc needs to improve upon it.
"I'm saying a prayer, George. A prayer for the whole world."

User avatar
omgitsgodzilla
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Soviet Nuclear Missile Satellite

Re: Godzilla Films getting 4K Restoration (Toho)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:27 pmExcept every TV is made with a completely different default set of settings. There is no way to maximize the visuals of your Blu Ray if you're not willing to adjust your TV settings to their max output. Blu Rays cannot just release a default output that looks fantastic on every modern TV model of numerous different brands.
Who's talking about maximizing anything? We're talking about being able to see what's going on, even, say, with the lights on in the room. That's the bare minimum.
Last edited by omgitsgodzilla on Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
RED MENACE
Projects YouTube Patreon

Post Reply