Gamera Arrow Limited Edition set

[G-MAN]

It was only off Amazon for a couple of days, but has been back on since. Its on my wish list. It is nice that if you pre-order, they will adjust the price to whatever it is on release day if it is lower. Right now it is only 10% lower than MSRP, but it may fall lower still before release date.

I think it's actually whatever the lowest price was between when you ordered and when it shipped, like if you preorder at $20, it dips to $10, and then on the release date it's $15, you get charged $10.

At least I remember reading somewhere that that's how it works, but that was a while ago. I don't know if all the specifics are still the same.

You are correct. With Amazon preorder you pay the lowest price before release date.

Still would like to know why diabolik has the list price at at much cheaper price than everywhere else though. Unless that was an error.

[Chrispy_G]

I think it's actually whatever the lowest price was between when you ordered and when it shipped, like if you preorder at $20, it dips to $10, and then on the release date it's $15, you get charged $10.

At least I remember reading somewhere that that's how it works, but that was a while ago. I don't know if all the specifics are still the same.

You are correct. With Amazon preorder you pay the lowest price before release date.

Still would like to know why diabolik has the list price at at much cheaper price than everywhere else though. Unless that was an error.

Unsure, but that is where I ordered from. We might see Amazon's price gradually tick down to that direction based on demand.

I don't know how distribution deals get structured and worked, but maybe it is just a matter of that. Arrow would have to set up to be distributed by both...you don't just randomly send your stuff to people to sell and expect your cut. The deal gets made and structured a certain way.

So with Diabolik being a much more niche and less known distrib....maybe somewhere in the process, a lower price was allowed because most of the sales probably aren't coming from them....Amazon will be responsible for most sales, so yeah, give the higher price so we can sell more units for more.

Also....diabolik required I use a credit card and charged me on the spot, and refunds are only in store credit. Amazon allows debit or credit, and you aren't charged until it ships. I'm sure certain benefits and guarantees help justify a higher price point.

Again, not an expert on how distribution deals work and how contracts and cuts of sales and etc are all sorted out....but it probably comes down to 'The Amazon price is what it is because XYZ' and the 'Diabolik price is what it is because XYZ'

[G-MAN]

You are correct. With Amazon preorder you pay the lowest price before release date.

Still would like to know why diabolik has the list price at at much cheaper price than everywhere else though. Unless that was an error.

Unsure, but that is where I ordered from. We might see Amazon's price gradually tick down to that direction based on demand.

I don't know how distribution deals get structured and worked, but maybe it is just a matter of that. Arrow would have to set up to be distributed by both...you don't just randomly send your stuff to people to sell and expect your cut. The deal gets made and structured a certain way.

So with Diabolik being a much more niche and less known distrib....maybe somewhere in the process, a lower price was allowed because most of the sales probably aren't coming from them....Amazon will be responsible for most sales, so yeah, give the higher price so we can sell more units for more.

Also....diabolik required I use a credit card and charged me on the spot, and refunds are only in store credit. Amazon allows debit or credit, and you aren't charged until it ships. I'm sure certain benefits and guarantees help justify a higher price point.

Again, not an expert on how distribution deals work and how contracts and cuts of sales and etc are all sorted out....but it probably comes down to 'The Amazon price is what it is because XYZ' and the 'Diabolik price is what it is because XYZ'

No there are distribution deals and stuff like that for sure with them. I mean they do Arrow sales kind of like how Barnes and noble does criterion sales. But I've never seen the msrp/listing price be so different across the board. As diabolik is literally the cheapest place to order. Regardless of the region and I buy from them often. But I never preorder due to it being the way it is and there not being any actual refunds. Cuz I'm not talking about the price it is being sold for

[Mr. Yellow]

Anyone have the UPC for this? Want to order from my local store.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Anyone have the UPC for this? Want to order from my local store.

DeepDiscount lists it as 760137365983.

[Malchik]

A little late to this this announcement And too lazy to back through the previous 12 pages, But does anyone know if this set will contain the Sandy Frank dubs?

No word on which dubs are being included. But they are including dubs for each film they said

That alone puts this set ahead of the Criterion set.

[mikelcho]

I know they're putting in Gammera the Invincible, but what about War of the Monsters? Is that going to be put in here, too? No one's mentioned anything about that version and it was missing from the Shout! Factory DVD release of Gamera vs. Barugon.

[Chrispy_G]

A little late to this this announcement And too lazy to back through the previous 12 pages, But does anyone know if this set will contain the Sandy Frank dubs?

No word on which dubs are being included. But they are including dubs for each film they said

That alone puts this set ahead of the Criterion set.

When you consider that, I think a few of the films pretty much are known to ONLY have Sandy Frank Dubs....that means that, in theory, they are getting access to both the AIP Dubs, as well as the Sandy Frank/Daiei International Dubs...which means some films will have 2 dub tracks.

In theory.

I know they're putting in Gammera the Invincible, but what about War of the Monsters? Is that going to be put in here, too? No one's mentioned anything about that version and it was missing from the Shout! Factory DVD release of Gamera vs. Barugon.

That is something I am concerned about. I don't necessarily need the specific US version with the unique US credits or titles, I don't need a "War of the Monsters" title card and for it to be a "War of the Monster" print.....you could, theoretically, very easily use branching or simple editing tools to give us "Gamera vs Barugon" edited to match the edits of the "War of the Monsters" cut of the film. Also, in theory...the Japanese and both English Audio tracks should be able to be tweaked/timed to be compatible with THAT edited down cut of the film as well.

After hearing that the shorter cut of that movie flows better, I would at least like to have it as an option.

Same thing with Gamera vs Viras. Apparently the original cut was 71-72 minutes, AIP wanted it beefed up and added a 14-15 minute stock footage flashback sequence...and the current 'compromise' cut that is universally used is 81 or 82 minutes.

I would very much like to have the original, shortest, version of this film as well....it can't be hard to revert the flashback/mind-reading sequence back down to its original form with branching or simple editing.

If some of these Gamera Showa films are harder to get through...the shortest versions are certainly versions I would like to have as an option.

BASICALLY....I am eagerly eagerly awaiting those "final specs" on the Box. What Dubs and how many we get, if "Gammera The Invincible" is the only US edit we are getting, which films are on which discs....specifics on the exact extras being included, etc etc.

Added in 12 days 8 hours 36 minutes 37 seconds:
Matt Frank shared another piece of artwork

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-FjPq0AkCn ... hare_sheet

[Rody]

^I appreciate the fandom's sense of humor in these trying times.
That's probably the best Viras has ever looked (admittedly I've never been a fan). I wonder if each film's villain is getting a one-sheet, then?

[daveblackeye15]

Yeah that's a pretty handsome Viras. It's just...kind of a boring design in general...I mean like there are designs that are simple but really good and I think with a few changes Viras could go that route. Kinda think Earthron from Ultraman Jack. Yeah's he a generic Godzilla-esque monster but that blade on his lead looks good!

[Chrispy_G]

I know we were having some speculation about how the films would be spread across multiple discs. So I decided to kill some time and work the math to see what would be most economical.

I am assuming that the Heisei Trilogy will each get a disc of their own, and that Gamera The Brave will either get a disc of its own or at WORST be the "Film+bonus features" disc. Or I am assuming that a decent amount of the bonus materials may be spread across the discs. Maybe each Heisei film, having a disc to itself, will also have individualized bonus materials and that the 'franchise supplements' will comfortable fit on the Gamera The Brave disc.

So either way....it feels like the Heisei Trilogy and Gamera The Brave will occupy the final 4 discs with commentaries and bonus materials spread across them.

That gives us 4 discs for the first 8 films. Although there will really be 9 films factoring in both versions of the original film.

So SOME disc will get 3 films....and so I did the math on all of the run-times of the films to see which would be the most economic way to crunch 3 films to a single disc.

Runtime Breakdown
1. Gamera the Giant Monster – 78 minutes
2. Gammera the Invincible – 86 minutes
3. Gamera vs Barugon – 100 minutes
4. Gamera vs Gyaos – 86 minutes
5. Gamera vs Viras – 81 minutes / 72 minutes (assuming that maybe the shorter original theatrical cut of Viras MIGHT be used)
6. Gamera vs Guiron – 82 minutes
7. Gamera vs Jiger – 83 minutes
8. Gamera vs Zigra – 87 minutes
9. Gamera Super Monster – 92 minutes

1-3 Runtime – 264 minutes
2-4 Runtime – 272
3-5 Runtime – 267
4-6 Runtime – 249 OR 240
5-7 Runtime – 246 OR 237
6-8 Runtime – 252
7-9 Runtime – 262

So going by this rationale.....if there is anything to the notion that 'black and white presentations would suffer less from the compression' then putting both versions of Gamera on the same disc as Barugon makes the most sense, as you would be putting the longest entry on a disc with 2 black and white entries that are on the shorter side.

So Disc 1 having 3 films would allow the next 3 discs to have 2 films each.

If you want to go PURELY by run-time, using the 81 or 72 minute version of Viras....then putting Viras, Guiron, and Jiger would be the shortest combined runtime of any 3 films.

So then you would probably get both versions of Gamera on Disc 1, Barugon and Gyaos on Disc 2, then Viras, Guiron, and Jiger on Disc 3, and Zigra and Super Monster on Disc 4.

I'm sure that no matter what we aren't exactly going to have the Showa films presented in the most stunning of ways, but hopefully we can get them all looking as good as possible. It will be interesting to see how they look compared to the Criterion Godzilla discs.

Anyways....it seems MOST likely that both versions of Gamera will be paired with Barugon OR Viras, Guiron, and Jiger will be tripled up.

I'm probably just wasting my time, the official announcement will come soon enough....but I couldn't help but give a go at crunching the numbers.

[Malchik]

It will be interesting to see how they look compared to the Criterion Godzilla discs.

I can already assuredly state "superior" because we already know the existing digital masters used on previous Gamera disks look better than Toho's Hi-Vision transfers.

[Tamura]

Eh, not much better. They're horrendously noisy... this is a fault of the transfers and not the film material.

[Chrispy_G]

We know Arrow is using the existing 4K restorations of the Heisei Trilogy, I wonder if the other films will just be the same thing....using whatever Kadokawa has, or if they are permitted/even interested in doing SOME type of new HD transfer of all of them.

Maybe we will see a Criterion scenario of them 'massaging' things like contrast and color to try and squeeze the best presentation out of what is available...

The Mill Creek Blu Ray Box Set put the 8 Showa Films on 2 discs, 4 films per disc. I don't own and have never viewed those discs....but I can't imagine that did ANY favors for the visual presentation of the films.

[Angilasman]

^ while there were certainly compression problems (and I believe Kadokawa just gave them 1080i transfers, not 1080p?), in some respects I found the Mill Creek picture quality on those old Gamera films more pleasing then the Godzilla films of the same era just because the colors and contrast were better.

[Chrispy_G]

^ while there were certainly compression problems (and I believe Kadokawa just gave them 1080i transfers, not 1080p?), in some respects I found the Mill Creek picture quality on those old Gamera films more pleasing then the Godzilla films of the same era just because the colors and contrast were better.

Wow. That is kind of crazy to hear. I am OKAY with the way the Godzilla films look in the Criterion set, so any indicator that the Gamera Showa films will look better works for me.

1080p vs 1080i, not stuffing 4 films onto a single disc, and any additional 'massaging' by Arrow should yield a pretty good improvement for those films.

Of course, it is nice that Gamera has basically half as many Showa films to worry about as Godzilla, far fewer films to stress and fuss about how good the preservation/restoration/transfer quality is....and on average the Gamera Showa films are years 'younger' than the Godzilla films.

[Tamura]

Maybe we will see a Criterion scenario of them 'massaging' things like contrast and color to try and squeeze the best presentation out of what is available...

Can we all stop treating this Toho-approved slight black level boost like real color correction? It's not. They were not allowed to deviate more than a centimeter from the work-in-progress versions of the 2008 HD transfers they were given. And yes, the reason some of the films in the Criterion-released Toho box differ from the Japanese BRs more than others (like Mothra vs Godzilla) is because the WIP versions of those transfers differed from the Japanese BR versions more than the others. Criterion was not allowed to release a product that could be in any way reverse imported because Toho is a fundamentally greedy company. They could not and therefore did not try and squeeze the best presentation out of the contractually obligated WIP versions of the 2008 HD transfers. What Toho gave Criterion and what Toho permitted Criterion to do is a spit in the face of fans wanting something more than copies of the films. Let's move on.

And even if they could and did try and squeeze the best presentation out of what was available, we can all agree that's like putting lipstick on a pig.

[Space Hunter M]

Arrow's been able to do some stunning HD transfers of Toei's catalog before.

Here's hoping Kadokawa is as cooperative as apparently Toei sometimes is, and the 4Ks are their only in-house contribution.

Still, if not, the Gamera HDs still beat the ever loving shit out of Toho's HI-VISIONS, at least color and consistency-wise.

[Tamura]

The Female Prisoner Scorpion films look good, and a significant amount of restoration was performed on them at considerable expense, but they would have looked much better if Arrow had access to the original negatives... Arrow had to work with low-cons, probably struck decades ago for video.

The Kadokawa HD transfers, while better in color than the LoVision transfers, are IMO profoundly unappealing compared to modern 2K and 4K transfers of OCNs of the same vintage... underneath all of that sensor noise is vast dynamic range and small details that we've been missing for years. These are late 90s anamorphic DVD grade transfers, at best. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I highly, highly doubt Arrow has the time or budget to give the entire Showa series FPS-grade transfers. Film scanning isn't cheap, and restoration is both expensive and labor intensive. It sucks, but Kadokawa - like Toho - should have had something better to supply all these years than very old HD transfers of elements probably later than the original negatives.

I wonder if we'll ever see scans of the original negatives of ANYTHING in the canon besides KKvsG.

[Chrispy_G]

Maybe we will see a Criterion scenario of them 'massaging' things like contrast and color to try and squeeze the best presentation out of what is available...

Can we all stop treating this Toho-approved slight black level boost like real color correction? It's not. They were not allowed to deviate more than a centimeter from the work-in-progress versions of the 2008 HD transfers they were given. And yes, the reason some of the films in the Criterion-released Toho box differ from the Japanese BRs more than others (like Mothra vs Godzilla) is because the WIP versions of those transfers differed from the Japanese BR versions more than the others. Criterion was not allowed to release a product that could be in any way reverse imported because Toho is a fundamentally greedy company. They could not and therefore did not try and squeeze the best presentation out of the contractually obligated WIP versions of the 2008 HD transfers. What Toho gave Criterion and what Toho permitted Criterion to do is a spit in the face of fans wanting something more than copies of the films. Let's move on.

And even if they could and did try and squeeze the best presentation out of what was available, we can all agree that's like putting lipstick on a pig.

Jeesh, I wasn't trying to start a big hoopla...and I wasn't trying to come off as if I was somehow giving high praise for what Criterion did. Just from what I read and what I heard from others....there were numerous examples of the Criterion versions of the films having things like better contrast and better colors compared to the Toho Blu Rays. Again, I don't have both to compare....but I was just going off of what some said, and what some image comparisons I saw seemed to showcase.

Wasn't trying to make it seem like Criterion turned lemons into lemonade or anything, only that they seemed to do SOME 'tweaks' of certain levels.

I'm just hoping that whatever Kadokawa provides to Arrow/permits Arrow to do, that Arrow is able to do as much as possible to give us as much improvement as possible over previous releases of the Showa Gamera films in the US.

I'm mostly just trying to have some hope/positive vibes that the Gamera Showa films will end up coming out with a bit of better treatment than the Godzilla Showa films did on the Criterion set.