Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

[gvamp]

After thinking about it I'm pretty sure that Son of Godzilla and GvsMG74 should be the same print that Sony made back in the mid 2000s. Those seem to be the prints that Toho has adapted because remember when Kraken released Ebirah, Hedorah and Gigan on BD they used the same print as Sony's DVDs for those as that's what Toho provided them.

I still haven't decided yet if I'm going to get this on launch because I should be able to get it for less than $120 which is a steal for this set but at the same time I can't be frivolous with my money so this would make a nice Christmas gift.

[Terasawa]

gvamp, Janus has been using the Toho HiVision transfers of MG and SOG online and on television ever since 2017.

[gvamp]

I wonder why they let Kraken use the Sony masters for movies then.

[BlankAccount]

I wonder why they let Kraken use the Sony masters for movies then.

I feel like half the time Toho just doesn't even watch what other companies are doing with their films.

[johnboy3434]

One time, Toho took a hands-off approach and trusted another company to handle its property. That was 1998. Since then, Toho has split all its time between overcompensating for that mistake and having internal discussions about how it can further overcompensate for that mistake.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Man I wonder if the "Toho's masters are good they're just made for superior Nihongo TVs" meme will end anytime soon.

[Stump Feet]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance for I'm a dirty pleeb and wasn't paying attention to the discussion about the transfers weeks ago because I hadn't made my mind up on buying this set but after placing my order, I'm curious, anyone have some examples of what I can expect?

[canofhumdingers]

Well, we don’t really know for certain. We know that Criterion has said they are using the HD masters provided by Toho for most of the films, but they also said they were doing some “light restoration” or something to that effect. If you have (or have seen) the blu rays of Media Blasters Destroy All Monsters or GvsMegalon, Kraken’s Return of Godzilla, or Echo Bridges GvsBiollante then your probably have an idea what to expect because all of those use the Toho-made HD masters. They are soft and lack detail and generally look just a touch out of focus. On smaller screens these issues are less apparent and they look fine. On larger screens the problems become more apparent. In any case they are more than watchable and are often the best the films have ever looked on home video. It’s just frustrating because they can and SHOULD look even better.

[Tamura]

One time, Toho took a hands-off approach and trusted another company to handle its property. That was 1998. Since then, Toho has split all its time between overcompensating for that mistake and having internal discussions about how it can further overcompensate for that mistake.

They sure changed their tune by 1999 when they forced ADV to release a menuless, chapterless, completely barebones DVD of Destroy All Monsters.

[canofhumdingers]

If you want an idea of what the inferior Toho masters look like compared to how good these films *can* look on BD, I’d suggest doing a direct comparison of Media Blasters DAM vs Kraken’s GvsTheSeaMonster blu rays because Kraken’s disc uses the far superior Sony transfer and the two films are of similar vintage.

Also, if you care about having the best video quality, I’d strongly encourage you to pick up the Kraken Sea Monster, Smog Monster, and Gigan blu-rays while they are still available at reasonable prices. Based on the info we currently have it is VERY likely these discs will greatly surpass the upcoming criterion discs of those films in image quality.

[Godzilla21]

I really hope Criterion can do something good with their "light restoration". My hope is they are saying its "light" to handicap themselves and will give us more than what we expect.

If Red Menace can do the phenomenal work as a small operation I hope a powerhouse like Criterion can do more. We'll see

[Tamura]

Even Sony's HD transfers from the early 2000s aren't the best these films could look... they weren't the highest end, digital intermediate or archival quality transfers even for their time - they were just routine, major studio HD transfers. It was a different world... film transferring technology has come a long, long way since then. The Sony transfers still hold up reasonably well, but it's a shame that HD transfers from the early 2000s must remain the gold standard for such famous, beloved genre films. Would it kill Toho to at least properly scan everything in 2K? They're a massively profitable company.

Man I wonder if the "Toho's masters are good they're just made for superior Nihongo TVs" meme will end anytime soon.

They're the best 1997 grade HD transfers money can buy. Seriously, look up the Cintel C-Reality. This is ancient tech.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Even Sony's HD transfers from the early 2000s aren't the best these films could look... they weren't the highest end, archival quality transfers even for their time - they were just routine HD transfers. Film transferring technology has come a long, long way since then. It's a shame that HD transfers from the early 2000s must remain the gold standard for such famous, beloved genre films. Would it kill Toho to at least properly scan everything in 2K? They're a massively profitable company.

Watch the remaining materials somehow go up in flames out of sheer incompetence. Feels like we're forever doomed to mediocrity.

[omgitsgodzilla]

This is what happens when culture is private property. You have important, classic works in the hands of negligent landlords whose only concern for them lies in extracting as much profit from them at as little cost as they can manage. Not a moment's thought is given to any responsibility to the culture(s) these works impacted; they're only art to their owners if labeling them art can increase their value as a commodity.

[Tamura]

I don't think it's incompetence. They commissioned very competent restorations of Godzilla and King Kong vs. Godzilla. They're just outrageously cheap. Toho milks the same mediocre SD and HD transfers for years until you can't imagine the films possibly looking any better. It's less work for Toho if they can keep our standards as low as possible, you see?

[mikelcho]

To get off topic just for a little while, how about this for a future Criterion Blu-ray release:

Monsters, Aliens and Mutants: The Toho Showa-Era Films (1954-1970)
Contents:
*The Invisible Man (1954)
*Half Human (1955)
*The Mysterians (1957)
*The H-Man (1958)
*Battle in Outer Space (1959)
*The Secret of the Telegian (1960)
*The Human Vapor (1960)
*Gorath (1962)
*Matango (1963)
*Atragon (1963)
*Dogora (1964)
*Frankenstein vs. Baragon (1965)
*The War of the Gargantuas (1966)
*King Kong Escapes (1967)
*Latitude Zero (1969)
*Space Amoeba (1970)

[Tamura]

Half Human has about as much of a chance of being released on video as any Toho US cuts do (except for GKOTM and the Glen Glenn dub of Monster Zero because Toho's rules are arbitrary and inconsistent).

I'd love to see war, crime and spy-themed sets. Criterion could dedicate an entire set to Tatsuya Mihashi spy films and unveil probably half a dozen never before heard international dubs, but that's only after Toho puts all the dubs through bureaucratic approval and officially canonizes them.

[Stump Feet]

I'd be willing to bet good money that Half-Human will never ever see the light of day again.

[Stump Feet]

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is the International dub of Monster Zero? The UPA dub?

[Tamura]

Toho filled in all the missing scenes from the Glen Glenn (an audio post-production company that was based in Hollywood) dub of Invasion of Astro-Monster with an on-set recording of Nick during one scene and raw music and sound effects, and has been using this as their uncut "international dub" for years. Because they appear to have forgotten it was commissioned by Henry Saperstein in the US, they are not afraid of any potential litigation surrounding this dub in particular. The presence of identifiable US voice talent and Glen Glenn's unique sound mix is irrelevant within this dub only, because Toho considers it one of their international dubs that they've always owned. They also like GKOTM, so they are not afraid of any potential litigation surrounding that, either. Everything else is verboten. The rules only make sense if you pretend to forget the entire history of Toho films in America. To Toho, Astro-Monster was commissioned by themselves shortly after the film came out in Japan, and GKOTM is somehow impervious to litigation, or they just don't care. Maybe they think it was spontaneously created in a vacuum by nobody in particular.