Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Stevo_1985 » Fri May 20, 2016 4:56 pm

So who currently owns the rights to g85 then?
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Chaotic-Strike » Fri May 20, 2016 5:13 pm

So how was Anchor Bay able to get a VHS release out back in 98 without being sued, if all these legal issues were present?

Then there's the fact it aired on the Monsters HD channel on cable unaltered with no problems back in 2006.

So why is it an issue now? Are we sure this isn't just Toho being Toho and being overly cautious for no reason or maybe it's because they don't have any materials to the 85 version, and Kraken is just being cheap?

It's just extremely disappointing that one of the last Japanese Godzilla films to be theatrically released here is being ignored and quite possibly never getting a legit release.

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Space Hunter M » Fri May 20, 2016 6:01 pm

Chaotic-Strike wrote:It's just extremely disappointing that one of the last Japanese Godzilla films to be theatrically released here is being ignored and quite possibly never getting a legit release.

And its legacy being shittalked by a tiny video firm in the process.

Also, inb4 Arbok refers to video quality as "print quality" in his review that will also refer to the English version as "Toho's horrible international dubbed track".
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby eabaker » Fri May 20, 2016 6:03 pm

Chaotic-Strike wrote:So how was Anchor Bay able to get a VHS release out back in 98 without being sued, if all these legal issues were present?

Then there's the fact it aired on the Monsters HD channel on cable unaltered with no problems back in 2006.


I don't know the specifics of the G'85 case, but I can tell you that distribution in new formats is not covered under pre-existing contracts. I would guess that both VHS and TV rights were acquired back when New World still held the rights, and that as of those dates, the rights were still being held by whoever had obtained them originally. Heck, it might even be possible for somebody to put out a VHS - or even Betamax - version now, but that wouldn't give them the rights to put them on disc.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Space Hunter M » Fri May 20, 2016 6:05 pm

Anyone else think Toho is going to have Kraken remove Godzilla's scream from the ending of the English track for some reason?
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SuperMonsterZero wrote:Mire Goji. That must be the Godzilla from the Italian Dogora poster.

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Gawdziller » Fri May 20, 2016 6:39 pm

Stevo_1985 wrote:So who currently owns the rights to g85 then?

I do.

And you'll never get it. Mwahahaha!
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby gigan72 » Fri May 20, 2016 6:53 pm

I'll probably pre-order from Best Buy, becuase their pre-orders often arrive a day or two earlier than release.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby LegendZilla » Fri May 20, 2016 7:10 pm

If anyone was to release Blu-Rays of the original Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla and Son of Godzilla, it would likely be Kraken as well.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Motorheadbanger » Fri May 20, 2016 8:16 pm

JVM wrote: I do believe I'd heard once, years ago, that Godzilla 1985 had better pacing than the international version, but I can't verify that.

...Godzilla 1985 has more value as a part of the franchise's history and cultural memory than it does for the quality of the film, unfortunately


Owning copies of both, I would say with certainty that G'85 definitely has better pacing. Ironically, though the American scenes are mostly awkward, and more than a bit inappropriate considering the serious tone of the film (other than Raymond Burr, the only man in the entire cast to actually take the film seriously, and apparently the key reason New World was convinced to not turn Return of Godzilla into a "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" style satire), the monster scenes are actually executed much better in the 1985 cut.

There's a problem that exists in a few films in the series (Godzilla 2000: Millennium comes to mind) where the directors/editors seem to not know when to jump cut to the next scene. The motto seems to be show every second instead of letting the audience assume, so we have an abundance of these lingering shots that don't really add to the film. This is particularly problematic in the Godzilla scenes, where there are multiple pauses in the action, killing the suspense. This is prevalent in the scenes of Godzilla squaring off with Super-X in the Japanese cut. To give the American editors credit, they really tightened up a lot of the action and rearranged the order of a few scenes making the film flow better and actually helping to correct a few lapses in logic i.e., cutting a few, less than stellar, effects shots (basically all the clips of the "life-size" foot prop and the canned screams, and a few moments from the shockers )

I wouldn't say the quality of the film is that bad. I find that the American cut actually (on the whole) holds up to be one of the stronger and more grounded entries in the series. It's certainly not the most bombastic or wacky (making it inherently less memorable than something like Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla or Destroy All Monsters). Sure there are moments that have to be looked over in both versions (the US Military farce in '85 and the laughably bad acting on behalf of the American Ambassador comes to mind in the Japanese version), but let's be honest, as fans of this franchise, every single movie has at least that one moment that you just have to lovingly cringe and sit through. I'd say that both cuts are solid films in the context of the series, giving the edge personally to Godzilla 1985 for better pacing, the added Christopher Young score, and for that ending monologue.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby miguelnuva » Fri May 20, 2016 8:22 pm

Some one needs to release G85 and the international dub of Godzilla 2000 on a blu ray.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby TheSecondComing » Fri May 20, 2016 10:00 pm

Raymond Burr had an immense amount of respect for Godzilla in real life. I can't remember where I read it, but IIRC he even tried to buy the rights to G1985 himself at one point.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Bigdog » Fri May 20, 2016 10:19 pm

Chaotic-Strike wrote:So how was Anchor Bay able to get a VHS release out back in 98 without being sued, if all these legal issues were present?

Then there's the fact it aired on the Monsters HD channel on cable unaltered with no problems back in 2006.

So why is it an issue now? Are we sure this isn't just Toho being Toho and being overly cautious for no reason or maybe it's because they don't have any materials to the 85 version, and Kraken is just being cheap?

It's just extremely disappointing that one of the last Japanese Godzilla films to be theatrically released here is being ignored and quite possibly never getting a legit release.


It's probably because Toho doesn't have anything just because they're incompetent at actually preserving their films they own. It basically took a private owner of King of the Monsters reel to make the Criterion release decent because Toho doesn't preserve their stuff well. You'd think that being their flagship franchise, they would at the very least try to preserve and have the best materials available.

I'll probably skip this release because I already have it via Region 3, and the dub quite honestly cringes. This is why I hope they either shape up , or someone buys everything Godzilla related from Toho like Legendary or some other company. I'm honestly done with their games and waiting for a movie that should've been out already.

TheSecondComing wrote:Raymond Burr had an immense amount of respect for Godzilla in real life. I can't remember where I read it, but IIRC he even tried to buy the rights to G1985 himself at one point.


I'm not sure if that is true, but he is the only reason why Godzilla 1985 didn't become a huge joke of a comedy. I honestly wished he did buy the rights to it or was the head of the American version in 1998, had he lived past 1993, because he sounds like the perfect man to be a producer for a Godzilla movie. I honestly wish 1985 was given a higher budget stateside so they could've sent Raymond Burr and other American actors to film scenes directly in Japan with the other cast members of Return so we could've had an experience where Steve Martin was actually in the drama, and not edited masterfully into it instead. Whoever edited and directed the American King of the Monsters deserved an Emmy for how they added him in there, seriously.

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby kpa » Fri May 20, 2016 10:53 pm

Stevo_1985 wrote:So who currently owns the rights to g85 then?


Toho. New World's rights expired years ago.

As Matt Greenfield explained, there are issues like music clearances (Toho does not own the DEF-CON 4 tracks that New World added to the American soundtrack) that muddy the issue... neither Toho nor Kraken want to leave themselves open to potential lawsuits by someone claiming their music. etc was used without consent.

Chaotic-Strike wrote:So how was Anchor Bay able to get a VHS release out back in 98 without being sued, if all these legal issues were present?


Anchor Bay acted as a packager/distributor, bringing together a handful of Godzilla films licensed to other companies. GODZILLA 1985 (and GIGAN and MECHAGODZILLA '74) came from Starmaker Home Video, a company that had sublicensed some of New World's titles in the 1990s. Look at the AB G85 VHS box here on TK, and you'll see the Starmaker logo on the back...

http://www.tohokingdom.com/articles/ima ... horbay.htm

The same situation applies to the other Anchor Bay Godzilla VHS titles. AB never owned GHIDRAH... the rights to that film were held by Golden Books (who were also using Starmaker to handle the home video release). Classic Media later bought Golden Book's film library and ended with GHIDRAH as part of the deal... that's how CM was able to release it on DVD.

Here's the AB GHIDRAH box with the Golden Books and Starmaker logos..

http://www.tohokingdom.com/articles/ima ... horbay.htm

Then there's the fact it aired on the Monsters HD channel on cable unaltered with no problems back in 2006.


New World's film library was sold in chunks, with Warner Bros. and Lakeshore acquiring TV rights to the 1984-1991 movies. Monsters HD got G85 from Warner Bros Television, but Warners only had the rights up to the dates specified in the original Toho/New World agreement. Warner's rights expired and reverted to Toho years ago.

So why is it an issue now?


One reason (and I'm sure there are others) is that G85 is no longer part of the New World film library so details like soundtracks from other New World movies are apparently now a problem.

Are we sure this isn't just Toho being Toho and being overly cautious for no reason or maybe it's because they don't have any materials to the 85 version, and Kraken is just being cheap?


Toho will never knowingly set themselves up for a potential lawsuit... that was a key reason they sat on the film for years.

As for Kraken... Toho finally started offering this movie about a year ago and Kraken just announced the license. That's a long stretch for a film that distributors have be asking about for years. In the SFJ interview, Matt explained that the delay was in large part due to their efforts to clear GODZILLA 1985. If they wanted to go cheap they could have picked up and released G-84 last year.

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby miguelnuva » Fri May 20, 2016 11:19 pm

Why can't the def con music be edited out G85 or a rights deal worked out?
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Fri May 20, 2016 11:24 pm

miguelnuva wrote:Why can't the def con music be edited out G85 or a rights deal worked out?

Because that music was awesome! Remove the Def Con music, you remove G85's soul :P
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Chaotic-Strike » Fri May 20, 2016 11:35 pm

kpa wrote:Snip


Welp, I guess that clears pretty much all of my questions up. Thanks for taking the time to look up all of that information.

It looks like I'll be stuck with my G85 VHS if I ever want to see that cut again. I'm still getting this release just a little annoyed 30 years hasn't been long enough to clear up the rights issue despite Toho owning the film.

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby JVM » Sat May 21, 2016 3:18 am

Motorheadbanger wrote:
JVM wrote: I do believe I'd heard once, years ago, that Godzilla 1985 had better pacing than the international version, but I can't verify that.

...Godzilla 1985 has more value as a part of the franchise's history and cultural memory than it does for the quality of the film, unfortunately


Owning copies of both, I would say with certainty that G'85 definitely has better pacing. Ironically, though the American scenes are mostly awkward, and more than a bit inappropriate considering the serious tone of the film (other than Raymond Burr, the only man in the entire cast to actually take the film seriously, and apparently the key reason New World was convinced to not turn Return of Godzilla into a "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" style satire), the monster scenes are actually executed much better in the 1985 cut.

There's a problem that exists in a few films in the series (Godzilla 2000: Millennium comes to mind) where the directors/editors seem to not know when to jump cut to the next scene. The motto seems to be show every second instead of letting the audience assume, so we have an abundance of these lingering shots that don't really add to the film. This is particularly problematic in the Godzilla scenes, where there are multiple pauses in the action, killing the suspense. This is prevalent in the scenes of Godzilla squaring off with Super-X in the Japanese cut. To give the American editors credit, they really tightened up a lot of the action and rearranged the order of a few scenes making the film flow better and actually helping to correct a few lapses in logic i.e., cutting a few, less than stellar, effects shots (basically all the clips of the "life-size" foot prop and the canned screams, and a few moments from the shockers )

I wouldn't say the quality of the film is that bad. I find that the American cut actually (on the whole) holds up to be one of the stronger and more grounded entries in the series. It's certainly not the most bombastic or wacky (making it inherently less memorable than something like Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla or Destroy All Monsters). Sure there are moments that have to be looked over in both versions (the US Military farce in '85 and the laughably bad acting on behalf of the American Ambassador comes to mind in the Japanese version), but let's be honest, as fans of this franchise, every single movie has at least that one moment that you just have to lovingly cringe and sit through. I'd say that both cuts are solid films in the context of the series, giving the edge personally to Godzilla 1985 for better pacing, the added Christopher Young score, and for that ending monologue.


Thanks for the clarification.

I recall a member a few years ago tried to make a version cutting together The Return of Godzilla and G85's scenes, a massive edit, but I didn't download it at the time (it was on a certain file-sharing site that no longer exists) and it's no longer available, and the member hasn't posted in ages.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Pkmatrix » Sat May 21, 2016 3:35 am

Maverick Centigrade wrote:So, Godzilla 1985 used music from another movie? Does anyone know which scenes used said music?


The scene that stuck out the most for me was the Helicopter rescue sequence. In The Return of Godzilla that scene has no music at all, it's just the dialogue and sound effects. I personally prefer Godzilla 1985's version of the scene, which adds music to heighten the tension and excitement.

RoG has a lot of scenes play out that way, so New World was pretty liberal with its use of the Def-Con 4 music. If the score is one of the issues with the film, it might very well be an absolute deal-breaker: if you cut out those tracks, you'd basically have to rescore the movie. And, I assume, to clear it you probably need to strike a deal not just with Mr. Young but also with whoever owns the rights to Def-Con 4 now (Anchor Bay, probably?).

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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby Julia Bristow » Sat May 21, 2016 5:33 am

While it does suck not to have New World's Godzilla 1985 cut included with Return of Godzilla, just having the Japanese cut come out on DVD/Blu Ray in North America after all this time at all is better than having nothing.
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Re: Return of Godzilla to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD on Sept 13th

Postby goji1986 » Sat May 21, 2016 6:44 am

Bigdog wrote:
Chaotic-Strike wrote:So how was Anchor Bay able to get a VHS release out back in 98 without being sued, if all these legal issues were present?

Then there's the fact it aired on the Monsters HD channel on cable unaltered with no problems back in 2006.

So why is it an issue now? Are we sure this isn't just Toho being Toho and being overly cautious for no reason or maybe it's because they don't have any materials to the 85 version, and Kraken is just being cheap?

It's just extremely disappointing that one of the last Japanese Godzilla films to be theatrically released here is being ignored and quite possibly never getting a legit release.


It's probably because Toho doesn't have anything just because they're incompetent at actually preserving their films they own. It basically took a private owner of King of the Monsters reel to make the Criterion release decent because Toho doesn't preserve their stuff well. You'd think that being their flagship franchise, they would at the very least try to preserve and have the best materials available.

I'll probably skip this release because I already have it via Region 3, and the dub quite honestly cringes. This is why I hope they either shape up , or someone buys everything Godzilla related from Toho like Legendary or some other company. I'm honestly done with their games and waiting for a movie that should've been out already.

TheSecondComing wrote:Raymond Burr had an immense amount of respect for Godzilla in real life. I can't remember where I read it, but IIRC he even tried to buy the rights to G1985 himself at one point.


I'm not sure if that is true, but he is the only reason why Godzilla 1985 didn't become a huge joke of a comedy. I honestly wished he did buy the rights to it or was the head of the American version in 1998, had he lived past 1993, because he sounds like the perfect man to be a producer for a Godzilla movie. I honestly wish 1985 was given a higher budget stateside so they could've sent Raymond Burr and other American actors to film scenes directly in Japan with the other cast members of Return so we could've had an experience where Steve Martin was actually in the drama, and not edited masterfully into it instead. Whoever edited and directed the American King of the Monsters deserved an Emmy for how they added him in there, seriously.


Raymond Burr says he wants to try and buy the rights in the last 20 seconds of this clip and also says he likes Godzilla (warning: pre-Internet rumor of KKvG alternate endings mentioned):
http://youtu.be/SuL03iluTdA
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