The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

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Goji
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Goji »

Now when it comes to the presentation of the U.S. versions, than yes, the Classic Media DVD's leave a lot to be desired. I'm not going to bother listing the problems here, because they're evident to (most of) those that care, and anyone else will likely just accuse me of "nitpicking".

A new scan of the UPA version of WOTG was eaaaasily the best of the bunch.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by JVM »

Two or three people have tried to insist the work is good for 2006, which is ridiculous, considering it's been covered before that Sony's releases were released earlier and had better video quality. The time of release is hardly an excuse for anything here.
If by "the same stuff" you mean "a few movies they hadn't previously released as well as a couple titles no American company had brought out on DVD," and by "the same shitty video quality" you mean "Toho's (admittedly lackluster) widescreen DVD transfers as opposed to aging American pan-and-scan VHS masters."
No company has brought The Return of Godzilla to DVD, either. I don't see anyone kissing Kraken Releasing's ass anymore - not that they should, but the point stands. We should also be thanking Media Blasters for Godzilla vs. Megalon, which they bungled hilariously. For all we know, had we waited longer for the previous films, Shout! Factory could've delivered superior versions, or something. Their reputation on this board seems to be sterling so I'll stick with that.
And I get the appeal of "They don't care about the fans at all and never did," but if they just wanted our money, or the casual buyer's money, they could have gotten it for a lot less time, effort and money than they spent on the releases. I think it's pretty obvious to anyone not dead set on completely dismissing any company that handles these movies that there were people working on these releases who cared a good deal about the fans and wanted to give them the best product they could with the resources they had.
What are you talking about? The reissued DVDs they put out are leagues better then their origins. You're just being ridiculous. If classic media didn't have at least some once of care for the film's they wouldn't have released arguably the best Godzilla DVDs in the state next to the criterion.
Sony's releases had superior video quality, as stated above, so that bumps Classic Media down to maybe third or fourth best company out of the more recent ones, which is right in the middle of the pack.

I don't credit Classic Media for the mostly excellent audio commentaries, as those were only great because of the work of Steve Ryfle, Ed Godziszewski, David Kalat, Stuart Galbraith, Richard Pusateri, Keith Aiken and Bob Johnson, not because of anything Classic Media did. I believe they also contributed a lot of the work that actually went into the image galleries and other special features. Classic Media's actual work on the discs was writing these guys some very well-deserved checks and continuing to neglect the video quality, as they had four years earlier, and probably still would today if they came back on the market.
Yeah, you need to slow your roll, JVM. The releases weren't that bad for 2006. Except for the two frankensteined Ghidorah films and TOMG, the U.S. versions were new transfers. The quality of these discs mostly suffered because they tried to cram too much on one disc.

*All* of their releases needed to be two discs, not just Gojira. Hell, WOTG/Rodan probably should have been on 4-discs (hell, the documentary could have just been squeezed onto the disc with the same, shitty video master of the U.S. version of Rodan that had been used since the '80s).
I don't disagree with any of this, actually. The documentary should've been it's own thing in any case. Extra disc in The Godzilla Collection box set, maybe, instead of being crammed with two less directly related films. I imagine the casual fans that probably bought it for War of the Gargantuas were squinting to find where Godzilla was in the movie.
Can we just give JVM the Special Snowflake Award for his achievement in realizing everything is shit?

And yes, the Classic Media DVD's don't look like they all came straight from Criterion's library, but they had more care put into them than many big studio catalog releases (even ones being released today). Plus, the last original disc they produced was eight years ago.

Although the blu-ray they released of G'54 was definitely total garbage. Agree with you on that one.
Here's the thing... I was defending Classic Media for nearly eight years on this board, and usually chewed out on the same account for things that most people are now telling me I'm being too harsh about today... including back when the things first came out, and were fresh on the market, when I was more excited to see Godzilla Raids Again and Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster available for purchase than anything else. I am absolutely not the first one to call Classic Media's releases "garbage", nor the first to call them "cheap", nor to suggest the fans didn't care when making them. These are all things I have seen other people say, especially back when I was the one being defensive about Classic Media's releases. I'm not breaking any new barriers, or staking any new claims, save maybe the consistently downbeat nature of my tone.

I've been on the other side of this before, for years, and I never encountered so much love for these discs back then. If I was ever a 'Special Snowflake' in this fandom, it was probably when I was actually working under the illusion that media companies gave a damn what the majority of the members of this board thought. That was usually the line of thinking that put me on the fringe here.

I'll get off here then. I've made all the points I needed to hit.
I used to be a lot more optimistic and outgoing, believe it or not. I used to actually be passionate about this stuff.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by heiseigodzilla425 »

I think what JVM might be doing is saying that Classic Media released the same thing as what Simitar did back in the day, which for a few movies is partially accurate. Classic Media's 2006 releases probably use the same film elements for GODZILLA KING OF THE MONSTERS, MONSTER ZERO, and GODZILLA'S REVENGE. They obviously used different elements for GODZILLA VS. THE THING and TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA in their 2006 releases.

I would agree that they used the same film elements, but the digital transfers were new. The 2006 transfers were anamorphic and had less digital compression to say the least.

I will disagree in how they interacted with Godzilla fans. They paid for the commentaries, mini-documentaries, as well as the feature-length documentary to be produced. The initial packaging was great as well. They definitely listened to what the fans wanted. They used the Japanese transfers that Toho gave them, which were universally praised as the gold standard for Godzilla releases at the time. That being the case, I don't think many people were concerned with them color-correcting any of their American materials, or the Japanese materials that they purchased. Its only now, in the age of HD and 4K video, that we put more emphasis on the color quality of Toho's prints.

Its easy to look back at these decade-old DVDs on our HDTVs and point out their flaws, but the fact is that, at the time, Classic Media gave us exactly what we wanted, and it looked great on our CRT TVs, even if the print quality wasn't absolutely perfect.

I would argue that if Sony hadn't remade the International versions of their Showa movies, that we wouldn't complain about the Toho's HD transfer's color quality as much as we presently do.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by G1985 »

heiseigodzilla425 wrote:...I don't think many people were concerned with them color-correcting any of their American materials, or the Japanese materials that they purchased. Its only now, in the age of HD and 4K video, that we put more emphasis on the color quality of Toho's prints.

Its easy to look back at these decade-old DVDs on our HDTVs and point out their flaws, but the fact is that, at the time, Classic Media gave us exactly what we wanted, and it looked great on our CRT TVs, even if the print quality wasn't absolutely perfect.
Well said.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Goji »

heiseigodzilla425 wrote: Classic Media's 2006 releases probably use the same film elements for GODZILLA KING OF THE MONSTERS, MONSTER ZERO, and GODZILLA'S REVENGE. They obviously used different elements for GODZILLA VS. THE THING and TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA in their 2006 releases.
I know that Revenge wasn't the same transfer from the Simitar release, but I can't recall any confirmation about it being the same source. I know for a fact that Zero was frankensteined from the Japanese source (as was Ghidorah), and wasn't the scan of the UPA version used for Monsters HD, or the old Simtar release. There are a lot of things missing/wrong with the U.S. version on the CM disc, but it's too much to cover here; considering it's off topic, anyway.
Its easy to look back at these decade-old DVDs on our HDTVs and point out their flaws, but the fact is that, at the time, Classic Media gave us exactly what we wanted, and it looked great on our CRT TVs.
Yeah, I mean, as far as what they offered, I was initially pleased with them. I'm not going to pretend like I wasn't. I was really excited to see the Japanese versions of most of them for the first time, and I was really happy the U.S. versions were presented alongside them. That was a big deal to me at the time, and they looked "fine" on my CRT at the time..but that was literally ten years ago. Now, I can tell just how compressed they really were from the get go; a flaw I initially didn't notice. Unlike the Sony Showas, they definitely didn't age gracefully. Still, I liked the supplemental material on the CM releases, and certainly liked it more than nothing at all. It's just a shame that, at the end of the day, they were still technically budget releases, even if some of the people working on them actually cared.

Outside of Criterion, this series has never had any kind of budget behind it for video releases in the States, and I think that's really a damn shame. It's why we almost always get the bare minimum, and most certainly why other version of the film and/ or extras from the Japanese releases, go by the wayside. If it isn't Toho not "allowing" something, it's a cost issue.
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

JVM wrote:Two or three people have tried to insist the work is good for 2006, which is ridiculous, considering it's been covered before that Sony's releases were released earlier and had better video quality. The time of release is hardly an excuse for anything here.
If by "the same stuff" you mean "a few movies they hadn't previously released as well as a couple titles no American company had brought out on DVD," and by "the same shitty video quality" you mean "Toho's (admittedly lackluster) widescreen DVD transfers as opposed to aging American pan-and-scan VHS masters."
No company has brought The Return of Godzilla to DVD, either. I don't see anyone kissing Kraken Releasing's ass anymore - not that they should, but the point stands. We should also be thanking Media Blasters for Godzilla vs. Megalon, which they bungled hilariously. For all we know, had we waited longer for the previous films, Shout! Factory could've delivered superior versions, or something. Their reputation on this board seems to be sterling so I'll stick with that.
My issue isn't that you weren't kissing CM's ass, it's more that you were seriously misrepresenting what they did and how it compared to other efforts. And I don't think anyone's arguing that the video quality on Classic Media's discs was better than Sony's, just that they seemed to be willing to put more care and effort into the releases in terms of multiple versions and extras than anyone else did at the time. Granted, none of their later DVDs really held up to the original "Gojira" release in the extras department, but they made the effort to include some decent original content, which is more than you can say for Sony. Obviously various aspects of the discs don't hold up today, but they went the extra mile in some areas where other companies just couldn't be bothered.

I'd agree that the flaws of these discs would be unacceptable if they were released today, but they weren't released today. They were released ten years ago. And while it's good that we have higher standards for these things today, completely dismissing DVDs that were great for ten years ago because they don't meet today's standards doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And I understand your frustration about having defended these releases for years and then coming around to a less idealistic perspective only to be told off again. This fandom loves to complain and argue more than it loves Godzilla. I'm not as enamored with the CMs as I was at first either, I just think they deserve at least some credit for the things they did well.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Chrispy_G »

That's fair, I don't meant to disrespect the opinion of any others. Just stating my own. I sort of come from a perspective where, we have 30, soon to be 31, Godzilla films. It is the longest running, most numerous film franchise of all time. It is an epic. To add on top of that the notion that a selection of the films have two very alternate versions...it only blows out the scope and size of the franchise even more.

Which is fine, I love the franchise. 31 films with X number having entirely different cuts can get a little extreme. But at the same time I've grown up being a junky for alternate and directors cuts and things like that, so I can certainly understand the hunger for them. I'm just not dying for them like some people are.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Rodan »

Chrispy_G wrote:It is the longest running, most numerous film franchise of all time.
Oh?

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Chrispy_G »

Correction, not the most numerous, but it has the Guinness World Record for being the longest running franchise.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/new ... ook-60021/
Longest continuously running film franchise: Its latest installment in 2014 extended the Godzilla franchise over a total span of 60 years, and counting.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Great Hierophant »

From 2012 to 2014, Godzilla and James Bond shared the title for the longest running film series of all time. In 2012, the Godzilla series had spanned from 1954 to 2004 and the Bond series had spanned from 1962 to 2012. 2014 came along and Godzilla regained his crown, but he can lose it if a Godzilla film is not made for ten years and a Bond film is made during that time.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Chrispy_G »

Great Hierophant wrote:2014 came along and Godzilla regained his crown, but he can lose it if a Godzilla film is not made for ten years and a Bond film is made during that time.
Which is not likely to happen for the foreseeable future.

The first Godzilla film was released 8 years prior to the first Bond film. So as long as Godzilla doesn't go on an extended hiatus it will have a leg up...and again, as soon as it comes out of said hiatus it will again have the title. It is going strong after more than 60 years...I hesitate to believe it will ever go away forever.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by GODZILLA2877 »

The Return of Godzilla is up for pre-order on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZ8I7R4/re ... GxbY74HMYH

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by GodzillaFan1996 »

GODZILLA2877 wrote:The Return of Godzilla is up for pre-order on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZ8I7R4/re ... GxbY74HMYH
It's released the day before my birthday!!!!
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by GODZILLA2877 »

GodzillaFan1996 wrote:
GODZILLA2877 wrote:The Return of Godzilla is up for pre-order on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZ8I7R4/re ... GxbY74HMYH
It's released the day before my birthday!!!!
Awesome! Are you getting the movie on DVD AND Blu-ray because I sure am.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Godzilla21 »

GODZILLA2877 wrote:
GodzillaFan1996 wrote:
GODZILLA2877 wrote:The Return of Godzilla is up for pre-order on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZ8I7R4/re ... GxbY74HMYH
It's released the day before my birthday!!!!
Awesome! Are you getting the movie on DVD AND Blu-ray because I sure am.
Why are you getting both?
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<=25% joke. >=75% topic. Even then - that's pushing it.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by GODZILLA2877 »

Godzilla21 wrote:
GODZILLA2877 wrote:
GodzillaFan1996 wrote:
It's released the day before my birthday!!!!
Awesome! Are you getting the movie on DVD AND Blu-ray because I sure am.
Why are you getting both?
Because I want every Heisei Godzilla movie on VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray and the only Heisei film I'm missing on DVD and Blu-ray is Godzilla (1984). I also have every Millennium film on DVD and Blu-ray except for Godzilla 2000, that's the only Millennium film I have on all formats. I don't have any of the Showa films on Blu-ray because it's my least favorite series although I'm thinking about getting the Godzilla (Criterion Collection) because it's the first movie. I'm also thinking about getting Godzilla (2014) on Blu-ray.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by g2vd »

GODZILLA2877 wrote: I'm thinking about getting the Godzilla (Criterion Collection) because it's the first movie.
Get it. the Blu-Ray is like seeing a whole new movie it's the best HM release for any Godzilla movie ever released plus the bonus features and Audio Commentaries for both Gojira and KOTM are excellent and it's like got sick pop-ups on the disc tray dude.

You should totally buy it as fast as you can.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Chrispy_G »

I'll just be buying the Blu Ray for The Return of Godzilla. I only buy official US releases for the films, and for each film, I won't the most recent/best format for each one. I don't have any of my Godzilla VHS tapes, in cases where they are only available on DVD....I have the best iterations of the DVDs that were released. When they are available on Blu Ray, that is what I go with.

It is nice that with Return of Godzilla, I believe we are at 22 of the 30 Godzilla films are available on Blu Ray in the US, with the other 8 on DVD.
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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by Goji »

Never thought I'd see the day when I was old enough to see two people in one day claim that Showa is "their least favorite series".
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.

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Re: The Return of Godzilla / Godzilla 1985 Speculation Thread

Post by GODZILLA2877 »

Goji wrote:Never thought I'd see the day when I was old enough to see two people in one day claim that Showa is "their least favorite series".
I just don't like movies from the 50s, 60s, or 70s that much. They can be kind of boring.

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