Supernatural Times RPG Redux discussion

[Vatarian]

I think the practical implications of a dragon should be considered here.

Has anyone ever seen a crocodile or an alligator go up against pretty much anything else? They almost never die, and for good reason-- the fuckers are armored. Short of being crushed to death by elephants, crocs don't give two shits. They also have incredible strength, despite those stubby little limbs.

Double that croc in size. Now double it again. Now give it much longer, more powerful limbs. Now give it intelligence equivelant to a corvid. Now cram a flamethrower in that sonofabitch's mouth. Now give it wings.

Dragons are conceptually terrifying as shit and practically unbeatable with anything short of high-level Magic or.... Like, artillery. Most fantasy either scales their power DOWN so the protag can look cool beating one, or puts them amongst other incredibly powerful beings.

In the setting I was sort of envisioning, a genuine dragon would fucking steamroll anything and everything. You'd need bloody fighter-jets.

Which is, I suppose, possible, as I was hoping to see the fall of proper civilization encompassed in the beginning.

[Godzilla The King]

As much as I want new stuff, we should bring back some of the old stuff. I kind of loved the village bit in the original, with humanoid characters trying to not reveal themselves from this religious whackjobs.

[MysticalDL]

I think the practical implications of a dragon should be considered here.

Has anyone ever seen a crocodile or an alligator go up against pretty much anything else? They almost never die, and for good reason-- the fuckers are armored. Short of being crushed to death by elephants, crocs don't give two shits. They also have incredible strength, despite those stubby little limbs.

Double that croc in size. Now double it again. Now give it much longer, more powerful limbs. Now give it intelligence equivelant to a corvid. Now cram a flamethrower in that sonofabitch's mouth. Now give it wings.

Dragons are conceptually terrifying as shit and practically unbeatable with anything short of high-level Magic or.... Like, artillery. Most fantasy either scales their power DOWN so the protag can look cool beating one, or puts them amongst other incredibly powerful beings.

In the setting I was sort of envisioning, a genuine dragon would fucking steamroll anything and everything. You'd need bloody fighter-jets.

Which is, I suppose, possible, as I was hoping to see the fall of proper civilization encompassed in the beginning.

Disagree in terms of elemental dragons, as they use their element almost strictly for offense, and anyone or anything that knows & can cast it's elemental weakness can defeat them. Many civilizations ancient lores have mentioned even regular knights & apprentice magicians killing them.

As for other types of dragons, most demons or skilled sorcerers can defeat them with a thought out plan before fighting them. High end demons are far harder to defeat when compared to most dragons, outside of godlike dragons which should be permanently banned from RP's.

[Demon Lord Gira]

Well, we don't HAVE to go off the old lore for such things as dragons and demons. Simply whatever we feel works well for the Roleplay at hand, and that we can all agree on for this setting, will suffice. And if you want to be technical, dragons in western mythology were a form of demon, a tool of Satan.

And as for Narisa dragon, well, like I said before, there's no guarantee that is what she is gunning for. I don't want a complete retread of the original, so some things changed around for spice of life is always good.

[Vatarian]

Some sources of lore also state that much of what you mentioned is basically propoganda to make people feel better about the whole matter of dragons. Lore in itself is highly subjective on merit of basically being fiction. For every Christian myth depicting a knight slaying a dragon, there is a tale of a dragon shitstomping an entire kingdom and using the charred corpses of its militia as a bed.

Consider this hypothetical situation-- You are in battle against a fire-dragon, in the ruined streets of a foggy Maine suburb. You cast an ice spell. The dragon, looking entirely unimpressed, simply slides out of the way, backhands a 400lb chunk of debris at you in retaliation, and closes the distance as you recover from the effort of frantically dodging.

As you prepare to try again, the Dragon casually breaks five of your ribs and crushes your left lung and kidney with a strike of its tail, then simply steps on your head.

It's all fine and good to show someone killing a dragon in a tale or say that they are theoretically killable, but in a more grounded, less plot-armored scenario, dragons are hard to beat.


Not calling for removal of dragons, just consideration of their power. They should be used sparingly, and with reverence,

[Demon Lord Gira]

Yeah... I don't think we're going to be starting off with the likes of Kalameet or Fatalis or Deathwing in the RPG. I remember these dragon debates from the first RPG, when Narisa got her dragon form and when Marcus got his out of thin air. And so long as we keep experienced, straight minds in action, and keep everything in line, we won't be having power issues out the wazzo, nor should we have dumb side plots like the lumberjack fight.

[Corzak The Mighty]

You guys also forget that in medieval mythos, dragons were like the size of a horse. Maybe. Like, at best. And that dragons used to be a form of demon, and knights could kill them because "god willed it", basically.


example of a medieval dragon. Not very impressive, is it?

[Demon Lord Gira]

That is pathetic. We need a REAL dragon in he-



Oh yeah. Fuckin Kalameet in here.

But back on topic, as I already said, so long as we can come to agreement on rules and boundaries that makes everyone happy, or atleast everyone can tolerate, we'll be okay.

[MysticalDL]

Some sources of lore also state that much of what you mentioned is basically propoganda to make people feel better about the whole matter of dragons. Lore in itself is highly subjective on merit of basically being fiction. For every Christian myth depicting a knight slaying a dragon, there is a tale of a dragon shitstomping an entire kingdom and using the charred corpses of its militia as a bed.

Consider this hypothetical situation-- You are in battle against a fire-dragon, in the ruined streets of a foggy Maine suburb. You cast an ice spell. The dragon, looking entirely unimpressed, simply slides out of the way, backhands a 400lb chunk of debris at you in retaliation, and closes the distance as you recover from the effort of frantically dodging.

As you prepare to try again, the Dragon casually breaks five of your ribs and crushes your left lung and kidney with a strike of its tail, then simply steps on your head.

It's all fine and good to show someone killing a dragon in a tale or say that they are theoretically killable, but in a more grounded, less plot-armored scenario, dragons are hard to beat.

Not calling for removal of dragons, just consideration of their power. They should be used sparingly, and with reverence,

I answered this in PM but will state here.

Simply make elemental dragons as glass cannons, with low elemental magic defense against even neutral elemental attacks. Most challenging dragon would be a earthen dragon, due to slightly naturally higher magical defense. Though they are slow, cumbersome and lack flight abilities.

In the fire dragon example, why cast ICE, when water based magic used against it. Would be a death sentence for fire dragon if the attacks hit?

[Vatarian]

I despise the sort of dragon that requires magic as a defense or is easily killable.

Defeats the entire point of having a dragon, for me.

Then again, I rooted for the dragon in fairy tales as a kid, so....

[Demon Lord Gira]

Well, it makes more sense from a logical, ecological standpoint. I mean, look at all manners of animals around today. Sure, you got the biggest and strongest of various species, like massive whales, crocodiles, Tyrannosaurs, ect, but you also have the smaller creatures that fill in a different niche. You don't just have the biggest and the baddest of the bunch, you also have smaller, weaker creatures of those various types. Not every dragon has to be a juggernaut. Having a vast array of different types of dragons can be highly interesting, from those who can tangle with the strongest demons, to those even a lowly werewolf can subdue if need be.

I dunno, I just feel it adds more variety that way. I get that it sorts goes against principal, that dragons are meant to be this unstoppable force, but well, so too are crocs and bears, and yet you see they have members of their kind that are quite manageable and relatively easy to deal with. The same goes for demons themselves, vampires, werewolves, zombies, the whole deal. Not every demon is some grand composer of chaos and despair. Sometimes, they're the little guy on your shoulder tempting you to do the wrong thing, so they can leech off that evil and get a little stronger themselves. It all depends on how you want to go with the character.

[Vatarian]

An idea occured to me-- perhaps Dragons become larger and stronger as they age? A very young dragon might fit well in this new series.

I will, however, raise objections about human characters shapeshifting into dragons. In hindsight, it was a poor idea, and I regret taking part in it.

[MysticalDL]

Well, it makes more sense from a logical, ecological standpoint. I mean, look at all manners of animals around today. Sure, you got the biggest and strongest of various species, like massive whales, crocodiles, Tyrannosaurs, ect, but you also have the smaller creatures that fill in a different niche. You don't just have the biggest and the baddest of the bunch, you also have smaller, weaker creatures of those various types. Not every dragon has to be a juggernaut. Having a vast array of different types of dragons can be highly interesting, from those who can tangle with the strongest demons, to those even a lowly werewolf can subdue if need be.

I dunno, I just feel it adds more variety that way. I get that it sorts goes against principal, that dragons are meant to be this unstoppable force, but well, so too are crocs and bears, and yet you see they have members of their kind that are quite manageable and relatively easy to deal with.

Agreed.

I don't see dragons as unstoppable forces or having a single type, but instead a vast array of different types. From elemental to even godlike beings. Each having counterable strengths & weaknesses. Crocs, Bear, Whales, & Elephants aren't unkillable.

Lions, Jaguars, Leopards, Tigers, & even wolf packs have been known to kill crocodiles, bears & occasional elephants(tigers mostly known for this).

Sharks & Orcas have been known to hunt & kill even dangerous sperm whales, and even attack blue whales. So nothing is unstoppable or unkillable truthfully.

[Demon Lord Gira]

Now we just need some sort of creature that preys on young , sick, or wounded dragons, and uses their bones for armor or something. A true lovecraftian horror lite in the making

[MysticalDL]

Now we just need some sort of creature that preys on young , sick, or wounded dragons, and uses their bones for armor or something. A true lovecraftian horror lite in the making

This made me laugh.

Although wouldn't demons be a better natural adversary for dragons? Maybe chimeras, hydras or griffins?

[Demon Lord Gira]

Well, I was thinking something more... natural, not quite demonic, per say, but a creature as natural as the dragons are. Something new, but at the same time, fair and balanced when the time comes for it to take stage. Just what exactly I have planned, is a bit of a spoiler for the Narisa arc, hint hint.

[MysticalDL]

Now I'm intrigued, as there are many mythological creatures that make for great natural adversaries to dragons in my opinion. So I'll be anxious to see what you have planned.

[Demon Lord Gira]

Trust me, you will like what I got in store. It's both mythological, yet new and refreshing at the same time. Something fitting for the first arc final boss of STRPG.

[MysticalDL]

I've started working on the concept of a late arc boss down the line. Don't really want to reveal alot about it, but it won't act like a typical villain. It'll also have a alternative reason behind it's targeting the group.

[Vatarian]

I'm thinking of having aliens play a role as well.

No, before you squint at me and make a face, I'm not quite thinking of traditional aliens. No lazily designed generic bad guys with tripods and a bureaucratic government. Simply beings from another planet. Entirely alien to us. Possessed of an utterly incompatible life philosophy, and an appearance we'd regard as nightmarish, while they regard us as nightmarish in turn. Less Stitch, more the aforementioned Lovecraft, though decidedly mortal and nearly as scared of us as we are of them.

I've also been thinking on the reason for the whole collapse serving as the catalyst for the roleplay.... What caused all this mythological stuff to go from being next to extinct to so prevelant that it's basically killing humanity and prying us off our seat at the top of the food-chain?

I look to a few sources as inspiration.... Lovecraft himself, Steven King, and... Destiny. Yes, Destiny.

It's still percolating in my head, but I'm forming the framework.... Humanity attracts a cutting force. A primeval darkness. It brushes over the earth like a toxic fugue and basically releases all our old worst fears and enemies from what's more or less Hell, causing overwhelming chaos.
Perhaps lycanthropy and vampirism already existed and were persisting at the fringe of things through modern times, but in the chaos, those supernatural diseases were bolstered and supercharged.

Both races basically resurge, going from nigh-extinct, to numerous enough to be a big threat. Let's also say that Angels and Demons are specific to Earth. Or, at the very least, there are seperate angelic and demonic realms on each planet. It helps explain the more reasonable power, why demons crop up on other worlds in fantasy so seldom, and leaves room for other big bads and goods in the cosmic scheme of things.

Let's also say that Earth is not the first world this has happened to, and the all the seperate worlds on which these incidents have occured are linked. Beings can pass to and fro. Has anyone ever read "From a Buick 8?"

Sorta what I'm going for here with them. They're strangers caught up in it, no super advanced tech, no utopia, no big solution..... Just a fierce desire to survive and a general attitude of "wtf" towards everything on earth.