How would one calculate the energy of a volcanic eruption?

[Inferno Rodan]

Since we don't have much else to gauge the power of the kaiju of the series, this is pretty much the only concrete feat of destruction we have to gauge the power of that universe's kaiju. The only things effective against them aside from each other was an alien military force millions of years more advanced than humans with energy weapons of unspecified yield.

The yield of the Leviathan ships' weapons doesn't need to be specified. It's clear that they're vastly less powerful than what would be required to wipe a small island off the face of the earth. Same goes for all the rest of the monsters' attacks. Toonzilla and friends were regularly harmed by things nowhere near the level of that volcano explosion. That's all that matters in qualifying the scene as an outlier.

[ZillaJr-KaijuKing]

The yield of the Leviathan ships' weapons doesn't need to be specified. It's clear that they're vastly less powerful than what would be required to wipe a small island off the face of the earth. Same goes for all the rest of the monsters' attacks. Toonzilla and friends were regularly harmed by things nowhere near the level of that volcano explosion. That's all that matters in qualifying the scene as an outlier.

The same can be said for MechaGodzilla's weapons, but no one's doubting that Godzilla can tank city-busting nukes.

[Inferno Rodan]

The same can be said for MechaGodzilla's weapons, but no one's doubting that Godzilla can tank city-busting nukes.

...wat

No one with any idea what they're talking about thinks Godzilla can tank city-busting nukes.

[Spuro]

The same can be said for MechaGodzilla's weapons, but no one's doubting that Godzilla can tank city-busting nukes.

...wat

No one with any idea what they're talking about thinks Godzilla can tank city-busting nukes.

Maybe he's talking about LPG Godzilla?

[Inferno Rodan]

Maybe he's talking about LPG Godzilla?

The fact that he referenced Mechagodzilla in the comparison indicates otherwise.

[ZillaJr-KaijuKing]

...wat

No one with any idea what they're talking about thinks Godzilla can tank city-busting nukes.

I thought this was a trait shared among Godzillas: LP Godzilla tanking a 15 Mt nuke, Final Wars Godzilla taking a meteor to the face, Heisei Godzilla possibly surviving the destruction of Birth Island, Manda surviving a massive explosion that reached the surface of the ocean from miles below.

I also remember reading that in one of the old movies (don't remember which one), the maser guns' power output was stated, probably in Joules, and the heat was the equivalent of a nuke according to the analysis. I'll try to find it at some point.

[Gerdzerl]

I like think that based on his consistent canonical durability feats, Godzilla's stronger incarnations could possibly survive a small nuke (IE: Single digit to low double-digit Kilotons), but nothing in the triple-digit Kilotons or the Megaton range. Basically stuff like the Fat Man, Little Boy, and Trinity bombs.

....God, I wish Godzilla would just hurry up and tank a true city busting nuke on par with Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba on screen and survive it already and for it to not be an outlier. Can't fucking stand the idea of him dying to a stupid bomb, no matter how powerful it technically is. Humanity is not worthy of being better than it's superior. Godzilla needs to be able to tank nukes, otherwise he's not a real, credible threat to the entirety of human civilization, he's just a big dumb animal waiting to get shot down at any moment by a bunch of pathetically tiny, hairless apes.

[ZillaJr-KaijuKing]

....God, I wish Godzilla would just hurry up and tank a true city busting nuke on par with Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba on screen and survive it already and for it to not be an outlier. Can't skreeonking stand the idea of him dying to a stupid bomb, no matter how powerful it technically is. Humanity is not worthy of being better than it's superior. Godzilla needs to be able to tank nukes, otherwise he's not a real, credible threat to the entirety of human civilization, he's just a big dumb animal waiting to get shot down at any moment by a bunch of pathetically tiny, hairless apes.

Exactly. I was led to believe that Godzilla couldn't be killed by any human weapons aside from advanced sci-fi ones. Why would he be such a threat to humanity if he could be killed with a single bomb? Plus, there are at least two incarnations of Godzilla that explicitly survived city-busting explosions, potentially more through implicit means.

Btw, Gerdzerl, do you still think the calculation for the island destruction is possible? Or are there too many uncertainties?

[Demon Lord Gira]

....God, I wish Godzilla would just hurry up and tank a true city busting nuke on par with Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba on screen and survive it already and for it to not be an outlier. Can't skreeonking stand the idea of him dying to a stupid bomb, no matter how powerful it technically is. Humanity is not worthy of being better than it's superior. Godzilla needs to be able to tank nukes, otherwise he's not a real, credible threat to the entirety of human civilization, he's just a big dumb animal waiting to get shot down at any moment by a bunch of pathetically tiny, hairless apes.

Exactly. I was led to believe that Godzilla couldn't be killed by any human weapons aside from advanced sci-fi ones. Why would he be such a threat to humanity if he could be killed with a single bomb? Plus, there are at least two incarnations of Godzilla that explicitly survived city-busting explosions, potentially more through implicit means.

The problem with that notion comes when attacks that do manage to hurt any form of Godzilla are far weaker than any nuke. (Gigan causing Godzilla to bleed in GvG, Showa MG turning Goji into a bloody sprinkler, SMG's shock anchors piercing Godzilla's hide, SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam blowing apart Godzilla's shoulder, Megaguirus sinking her tail into Godzilla's stomach, the AZC misfire, GMk Ghidorah's spirit bomb, etc) If any form of Godzilla can survive, let alone laugh off something like Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba, then in all reality, almost every form of kaiju attack thrown at him would just bounce off unless measures are taken to justify and elaborate on how said kaiju attacks can harm something that can withstand a nuclear explosion at point-blank range. The sheer power of a nuclear explosion, even one as weak as Fat Boy, is so mind boggling and near impossible for the human mind to comprehend. The Tsar Bomba, the single most powerful nuclear weapon ever tested, had a yield of 50 megatons of TNT, over 1,500 times the power of the atomic bombs that ended WW2 COMBINED. You cannot logically wrap your mind around that kind of firepower. Even if we pretend that Godzilla would just absorb the radiation, that still leaves the actual ungodly force of the explosion itself, which would tear any Godzilla not named Marvel Godzilla into thin atomized particles. Nevermind the fact that the inside of a nuclear explosion is anywhere between 50 million and 150 million degrees F, much higher than the 15 million of the inside of the sun. So if you want Godzilla to survive a point blank nuke, he better be able to survive being thrown inside the sun 4 times over, at the very least. Once again, good luck trying to wrap your mind around just how freaking hot that is.

And then there's volcanic eruptions themselves. the Tsar Bomba had 1/4th the yield of Krakatoa's infamous eruption that turned the island into a smoldering crater made of mini islands. Now, the volcano that Toonzilla and Queen Bee were engulfed by wasn't as strong, but it gives you an idea of just how freakishly strong these forces can be, and how having kaiju be able to tank these just leaves you wondering how anything can harm them at all (Bar an actual black hole or psychokinetic powers that rupture blood vessels or something.)

But if you want a Godzilla that CAN do all of the above, look at Marvel's take on the character. He fought off the Hulk, Avengers, and the Fantastic Four with ease, and is borderline indestructible, above and beyond normal kaiju standards.

[Breakdown]

Comic book characters like Marvel Godzilla are harder to judge, because even godlike characters like Thanos where harmed by weaker things (like fucking Spiderman of all people) however contrary to what some people on this board think, I think any and all instances of a character like Thanos who has consistently shown to blow up planets or survive ridiculous things being harmed by something lesser should be considered outliers because there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more examples of him doing crazy stuff than not.

Personally I think LPG's ability to survive the castle bravo tests being an outlier is BS, but whatever.

[Demon Lord Gira]

And herein lies the issue with judging half of these characters: the movie makers/ comic book writers don't care half the time about consistency in their characters, especially if there's multiple people rotating on a comic book team. They want a good or fun story first, and then you have to remember that most of these people don't exactly have degrees in physics and whatnot. Look at Superman, who depending on the writer either can do feats that are absolutely impossible like holding a book with infinite pages, or get schooled by a guy in a spider mecha.

This is especially applicable to the Godzilla movies, where even in the same series, Godzilla's durability fluctuates wildly depending on what the plot demands (So you can sit in lava for 5 years and come out perfectly fine, but Mecha King Ghidorah's gravity bolts cause you to howl in pain? Ooookay...) Simply put, most people just don't put much thought into realistic durability and feats when making a movie or a comic book, and it's why you see all sorts of outliers when you take a close look. Literally, the only constants at play for something like Showa Godzilla is the millitary can't do anything to him, and atomic ray. It's why you see his design change so drastically through the movies, and him gaining powers out the wazzo that never show up again, just like Superman in the latter case. It's stuff like this that makes trying to pinpoint solid constants for use in FM's so very hard. It's always whatever the producer of the month wants in terms of flavor and fun over trying to keep things constant aside from possible lipservice.

[Breakdown]

I think if a character consistently displays insane feats such as Superman, Thanos, Hulk, etc. (Which they usually do) then any instance of them being harmed by something weaker is an outlier. It's funny how nobody on this board ever seems to take outliers the other way. On here I remember in a Thanos vs Spacegodzilla thread someone argued that Thanos would get wrecked by Spacegodzilla and dismissed all his high-end feats as outliers because of a time where he was harmed by Spiderman. I think that's absolutely fucking asinine to dismiss all of those because of 4 or 5 one-off instances when you have a plethroa of comics showing otherwise.

I really think we need to solidly clarify/debate what should be considered an outlier. Perhaps in another thread?

[Gerdzerl]

....God, I wish Godzilla would just hurry up and tank a true city busting nuke on par with Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba on screen and survive it already and for it to not be an outlier. Can't skreeonking stand the idea of him dying to a stupid bomb, no matter how powerful it technically is. Humanity is not worthy of being better than it's superior. Godzilla needs to be able to tank nukes, otherwise he's not a real, credible threat to the entirety of human civilization, he's just a big dumb animal waiting to get shot down at any moment by a bunch of pathetically tiny, hairless apes.

Exactly. I was led to believe that Godzilla couldn't be killed by any human weapons aside from advanced sci-fi ones. Why would he be such a threat to humanity if he could be killed with a single bomb? Plus, there are at least two incarnations of Godzilla that explicitly survived city-busting explosions, potentially more through implicit means.

The problem with that notion comes when attacks that do manage to hurt any form of Godzilla are far weaker than any nuke. (Gigan causing Godzilla to bleed in GvG, Showa MG turning Goji into a bloody sprinkler, SMG's shock anchors piercing Godzilla's hide, SpaceGodzilla's Corona Beam blowing apart Godzilla's shoulder, Megaguirus sinking her tail into Godzilla's stomach, the AZC misfire, GMk Ghidorah's spirit bomb, etc) If any form of Godzilla can survive, let alone laugh off something like Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba, then in all reality, almost every form of kaiju attack thrown at him would just bounce off unless measures are taken to justify and elaborate on how said kaiju attacks can harm something that can withstand a nuclear explosion at point-blank range. The sheer power of a nuclear explosion, even one as weak as Fat Boy, is so mind boggling and near impossible for the human mind to comprehend. The Tsar Bomba, the single most powerful nuclear weapon ever tested, had a yield of 50 megatons of TNT, over 1,500 times the power of the atomic bombs that ended WW2 COMBINED. You cannot logically wrap your mind around that kind of firepower. Even if we pretend that Godzilla would just absorb the radiation, that still leaves the actual ungodly force of the explosion itself, which would tear any Godzilla not named Marvel Godzilla into thin atomized particles. Nevermind the fact that the inside of a nuclear explosion is anywhere between 50 million and 150 million degrees F, much higher than the 15 million of the inside of the sun. So if you want Godzilla to survive a point blank nuke, he better be able to survive being thrown inside the sun 4 times over, at the very least. Once again, good luck trying to wrap your mind around just how freaking hot that is.

And then there's volcanic eruptions themselves. the Tsar Bomba had 1/4th the yield of Krakatoa's infamous eruption that turned the island into a smoldering crater made of mini islands. Now, the volcano that Toonzilla and Queen Bee were engulfed by wasn't as strong, but it gives you an idea of just how freakishly strong these forces can be, and how having kaiju be able to tank these just leaves you wondering how anything can harm them at all (Bar an actual black hole or psychokinetic powers that rupture blood vessels or something.)

But if you want a Godzilla that CAN do all of the above, look at Marvel's take on the character. He fought off the Hulk, Avengers, and the Fantastic Four with ease, and is borderline indestructible, above and beyond normal kaiju standards.

That's all perfectly fine by me, I don't care in the slightest about how "incredibly hot" or how "ungodly powerful" a nuke is. It's ultimately a man-made weapon in the end, not something natural. It's one of the reasons why I personally can't stand G54's ending.

While I don't particularly care for it by any means, I can, for example, accept him dying to a super-volcanic eruption or an asteroid impact, not at all because of their sheer power, but because they're a legitimate part of nature, just like Godzilla and his fellow kaiju.

You can always justify kaiju being able to hurt each other and still tanking nukes by simply explaining that Attack Potency = / = Area of Effect. Countless other pieces of fiction go by this logic, so I don't see why Godzilla couldn't.

Godzilla dying to a nuke makes him way too personal and intimate to be a serious, credible threat to human civilization, because he could literally be killed in the blink of an eye at any moment.

[EmperorGhidorah]

....God, I wish Godzilla would just hurry up and tank a true city busting nuke on par with Castle Bravo or the Tsar Bomba on screen and survive it already and for it to not be an outlier. Can't skreeonking stand the idea of him dying to a stupid bomb, no matter how powerful it technically is. Humanity is not worthy of being better than it's superior. Godzilla needs to be able to tank nukes, otherwise he's not a real, credible threat to the entirety of human civilization, he's just a big dumb animal waiting to get shot down at any moment by a bunch of pathetically tiny, hairless apes.

Exactly. I was led to believe that Godzilla couldn't be killed by any human weapons aside from advanced sci-fi ones. Why would he be such a threat to humanity if he could be killed with a single bomb? Plus, there are at least two incarnations of Godzilla that explicitly survived city-busting explosions, potentially more through implicit means.

Well, technically speaking, most kaijus would be able to tank nukes and absurd natural forces simply because they'd have to be composed of uber strong materials and substances in order to function properly. But this is, of course, in a real world setting.

But it isn't all that inconceivable for some Godzillas to be able to tank nuke+ level attacks, i.e. Heisei Godzilla, even in a FM setting. First off, we have to look at what actually succeeded in damaging Heisei Godzilla, not what we necessarily think harmed him. The reason for this being the word harm is very subjective when trying to prove it. How do we know if someone was harmed but there is no visible damage? It's often times by the individual(s) reaction. But this line of reasoning is too subjective; things like reactions can be left up to interpretation much more so than actual, visible damage.

So the following attacks actually succeeded in damaging Godzilla (i.e. we saw them breach his hide or caused him to follow over in pain).

Biollante's vines
The Plasma Grenade
The Shock Anchors
Corona Beams
MOG's Plasma Weapons
Laser Horn

Of those attacks, most of them were only used on Heisei Godzilla or similar beings. In other words, we never see them strike the surrounding environment or objects we empirically know a nuke would damage or destroy, which would be an accurate way of judging their power when comparing them to nuclear level attacks. Only SG's Corona Beam actual struck anything but a kaiju which is why one could use this attack to contradict some of Heisei Goji's higher end showings.

Now let's look at all of Heisei G's highest durability showings; ones that could be, and often are, considered outliers.

- Mantle swim
- Sitting and swimming in a volcano for 5 years
- Surviving Birth Island destruction
- DNA surviving vacuum of space, black holes, and supernovas

And out of all the attacks that have the potential to contradict those aforementioned feats of durability, only one is technically valid. So I suppose one could make the argument that Heisei G is ungodly durable.

On here I remember in a Thanos vs Spacegodzilla thread someone argued that Thanos would get wrecked by Spacegodzilla and dismissed all his high-end feats as outliers because of a time where he was harmed by Spiderman. I think that's absolutely skreeonking asinine to dismiss all of those because of 4 or 5 one-off instances when you have a plethroa of comics showing otherwise.

Nice subtle jab there.

While I don't particularly care for it by any means, I can, for example, accept him dying to a super-volcanic eruption or an asteroid impact, not at all because of their sheer power, but because they're a legitimate part of nature, just like Godzilla and his fellow kaiju.

Eh no. There NOT apart of nature. That's the point of a kaiju. They're beyond nature, beyond our understanding of the natural world. A transcendent being, if you will. The logic of it's ok if they die by a natural phenomena but not ok if they die by a man-made weapon simply doesn't make any sense. Godzilla and creatures like him are beyond both the world of man and the world of nature.

You can always justify kaiju being able to hurt each other and still tanking nukes by simply explaining that Attack Potency = / = Area of Effect. Countless other pieces of fiction go by this logic, so I don't see why Godzilla couldn't.

Its simply a difference in how different groups of people discuss and debate.

Godzilla dying to a nuke makes him way too personal and intimate to be a serious, credible threat to human civilization, because he could literally be killed in the blink of an eye at any moment.

You seem to think that dropping nuclear weapons is a simple thing. Well, it really isn't. Something like a nuclear bomb is DEVASTATING, not just in the sense of destructive power but the residual radioactive fallout can cause serious, lasting problems. There would be months, if not years, of planning and considering if we were actually going to nuke a kaiju. It isn't something that would be done just on a whim.

[Gerdzerl]

Godzilla dying to a nuke makes him way too personal and intimate to be a serious, credible threat to human civilization, because he could literally be killed in the blink of an eye at any moment.

You seem to think that dropping nuclear weapons is a simple thing. Well, it really isn't. Something like a nuclear bomb is DEVASTATING, not just in the sense of destructive power but the residual radioactive fallout can cause serious, lasting problems. There would be months, if not years, of planning and considering if we were actually going to nuke a kaiju. It isn't something that would be done just on a whim.

I don't think it's a simple thing, I know it isn't. I'm quite aware of the gravity of a nuclear weapon. I apologize for wording that badly.

But my point is, something like Godzilla should require all of human civilization's firepower being used against him to truly affect him, not just one nuke or an army or two. IE: It would take the world's combined nuclear arsenal plus the firepower of every single army from every country on earth concentrated at one spot to get rid of him.

Godzilla should basically be almost absolutely beyond our control. If humanity managed to somehow kill him, the consequences of doing so should be so horrifyingly devastating, that it should drive humanity, at the very least, into near extinction and almost permanently destroy civilization as we know it and basically regress us back into primitive cavemen. Killing Godzilla shouldn't ever be worth it. We would need to learn to live with his presence, just like how we have to just accept the effects of a hurricane, tornado, volcano, earthquake, or asteroid impact brings because we're simply just that helpless in face of their power.

Either learn to live with Godzilla, or die.

[Breakdown]

Nice subtle jab there.

Oh EG, you know I love you

[EmperorGhidorah]

Nice subtle jab there.

Oh EG, you know I love you

Well, I mean, it's hard not to.

But my point is, something like Godzilla should require all of human civilization's firepower being used against him to truly affect him, not just one nuke or an army or two. IE: It would take the world's combined nuclear arsenal plus the firepower of every single army from every country on earth concentrated at one spot to get rid of him.

Godzilla should basically be almost absolutely beyond our control. If humanity managed to somehow kill him, the consequences of doing so should be so horrifyingly devastating, that it should drive humanity, at the very least, into near extinction and almost permanently destroy civilization as we know it and basically regress us back into primitive cavemen. Killing Godzilla shouldn't ever be worth it. We would need to learn to live with his presence, just like how we to just accept the effects of a hurricane, tornado, volcano, earthquake, or asteroid impact because we're just that helpless in face of their power.

Either learn to live with Godzilla, or die.

This is all a bit...convoluted. But I do sort of understand where you're coming from with this and I recognize the fact that this is a somewhat opinionated discussion that we're currently having, so I won't verbally abuse you to the brink of damnation for having an opinion .

Also, I noticed you said you couldn't stand G54's ending and, based on your feelings on man-made weapons and their affect on Godzilla, I'm presuming it was because of the oxygen destroyer. So are you against things like Mechagodzillas, Mecha Mothras and or Mecha King Ghidorahs? Do you view those kinds of weapons as too "man-made" or do they lie within the realm of kaijus enough for you to accept the possibility of one of these mechs actually succeeding in killing Godzilla? I'd like to know.

[Gerdzerl]

Nice subtle jab there.

Oh EG, you know I love you

Well, I mean, it's hard not to.

But my point is, something like Godzilla should require all of human civilization's firepower being used against him to truly affect him, not just one nuke or an army or two. IE: It would take the world's combined nuclear arsenal plus the firepower of every single army from every country on earth concentrated at one spot to get rid of him.

Godzilla should basically be almost absolutely beyond our control. If humanity managed to somehow kill him, the consequences of doing so should be so horrifyingly devastating, that it should drive humanity, at the very least, into near extinction and almost permanently destroy civilization as we know it and basically regress us back into primitive cavemen. Killing Godzilla shouldn't ever be worth it. We would need to learn to live with his presence, just like how we to just accept the effects of a hurricane, tornado, volcano, earthquake, or asteroid impact because we're just that helpless in face of their power.

Either learn to live with Godzilla, or die.

This is all a bit...convoluted. But I do sort of understand where you're coming from with this and I recognize the fact that this is a somewhat opinionated discussion that we're currently having, so I won't verbally abuse you to the brink of damnation for having an opinion .

Also, I noticed you said you couldn't stand G54's ending and, based on your feelings on man-made weapons and their affect on Godzilla, I'm presuming it was because of the oxygen destroyer. So are you against things like Mechagodzillas, Mecha Mothras and or Mecha King Ghidorahs? Do you view those kinds of weapons as too "man-made" or do they lie within the realm of kaijus enough for you to accept the possibility of one of these mechs actually succeeding in killing Godzilla? I'd like to know.

I can accept those since they're pretty much just metallic kaiju and not outright "machine" machines.

[ZillaJr-KaijuKing]

I just want to know if there's a way to prove this island destruction is Island Level, outlier or no outlier.

[Demon Lord Gira]

Alas, we don't know enough to make a definitive statement on how strong the eruption is. To accurately measure how strong a volcanic eruption is, you need to know what type of eruption occurs, and what the magma involved is made of. The magma seen in the episode doesn't seem very viscous, so the eruption strength probably isn't all that impressive as far as volcanoes go. The more viscous the lava, the greater the explosion, and the more power and force behind the eruption. The closest example to what is shown would probably be a hawaiian eruption, which is for all intents very tame. However, the eruption shown doesn't quite match any one example, so accurately gauging it is hard when almost no other volcano currently active acts like a mix of Hawaiian and Strombolian, both which are again, very mild by volcano standards.

As for the destruction of the island, it seems more like once the eruption was underway, the island sort of caved in on itself rather than completely be blasted apart, which further makes trying to identify how strong it is a near impossibility.