The Case Against MOGUERA: Complete

[Spuro]

Erm, KK... you do realize alot of these analysis run off stuff that wasn't the film maker's intent. Like Showa Godzilla taking a tank round to the eye, which I highly doubt was planned, but was kept in because why not.

Except Godzilla recoiled from the tank round to the eye and was broken off in mid roar. Sounds and looks pretty intentional to me. If it was a mistake to begin with, then they edited the scene to make it work. We get none of that with the corona beam or the plasma grenade's supposed "damage" to Godzilla, and in fact we get the opposite for the latter weapon. The camera angle chosen for the scene is angled away from the struck area, all too conveniently hiding any damage that might have happened to the suit.

If they wanted to show off the weapon's power, they would have made more of a point of it injuring him. Blood, a closeup, or both. They did it with Gigan, Hedorah, all versions of Mecha Godzilla, Biollante and Destoroyah. There's no reason to think they would suddenly try to be subtle and make the damage a blink-and-you-miss-it thing.

Or Showa Godzilal having regen, which definitely wasn't the intent of the film makers back then.

Well he doesn't have battle effective regen, so it's not very relevant in FMs anyway.

We judge what we see, not what the original intent was in the movie. Otherwise, every single Godzilla ever made would be the strongest one, since again, that was the intent of every single toho movie maker. The logic sorta falls flat on its face once you think about it.

And if we go around using effects errors as "evidence" in FMs, then why not use the scene where Godzilla's tail falls off as "proof" of Heisei Godzilla's terrible durability? Why not screen cap the moment Rodan's head fell off after ramming Ghidorah, as proof of his incredible regeneration? Why not talk about the organic wheels Mothra Larva has? Or Zilla's amazing, Jet Jaguar-stye size changing abilities?

[Demon Lord Gira]

Erm... this really isn't the place for effects errors and whatnot. I think we should get back on the issue of Moguera vs MG. Of course, in that regard, plasma grenade effect goofs CAN go under, so I'll accept that as being part of the discussion, but anything else should be avoided.

Though, no one's stopping anyone from making an "effect goofs or intentional" thread either here or in the General Toho section...

[EmperorGhidorah]

Except Godzilla recoiled from the tank round to the eye and was broken off in mid roar. Sounds and looks pretty intentional to me. If it was a mistake to begin with, then they edited the scene to make it work. We get none of that with the corona beam or the plasma grenade's supposed "damage" to Godzilla, and in fact we get the opposite for the latter weapon. The camera angle chosen for the scene is angled away from the struck area, all too conveniently hiding any damage that might have happened to the suit.

If they wanted to show off the weapon's power, they would have made more of a point of it injuring him. Blood, a closeup, or both. They did it with Gigan, Hedorah, all versions of Mecha Godzilla, Biollante and Destoroyah. There's no reason to think they would suddenly try to be subtle and make the damage a blink-and-you-miss-it thing.

Dude, we see damage appear RIGHT where SG's corona beam strikes Godzilla. We see it in both pictures that I provided. If you ignore the damage we clearly see SG's beam create and treat it as "FX errors", than you'll have to treat ever other instance of a kaiju being damaged as the same thing. Gigan, Hedorah, Mechagodzilla. All of the damaged they inflicted on Showa Godzilla is now FX errors. It's complelely unfair to treat the damage they inflicted as valid while simultaneously disregarding the damage we clearly see SG's corona beam inflict.

The reason we disregard things like Godzilla's tail falling off is because the were nothing BUT an FX error that would have caused his tail to fall off.

Oh and if you base actual damage on the presences of blood alone...well I guess Legion harming gamera is an FX error since most of her weapons didn't make Gamera bleed. They cauterized the wounds they inflicted (which is damn impressive btw (love how I can shoehorn how awesome Legion is into this ) ). I guess the Spiral Rays didn't damage MechaGodzilla or Moguera since there was no blood present.

Well he doesn't have battle effective regen, so it's not very relevant in FMs anyway.

Except he does. He healed almost instantly from the damage that Gigan and MechaGodzilla inflicted on him.

[Spuro]

[quote="EmperorGhidorah"]
Dude, we see damage appear RIGHT where SG's corona beam strikes Godzilla.
[quote]

Because that's RIGHT where the pyrotechnics were set off. You can see where I'm going with this.

[Demon Lord Gira]

Folks, I think you're just going to have to agree to disagree. Neither of you are going to convince the other, I just know it.

[EmperorGhidorah]

Dude, we see damage appear RIGHT where SG's corona beam strikes Godzilla.

Because that's RIGHT where the pyrotechnics were set off. You can see where I'm going with this.

Yep and MechaGodzilla and Gigan struck Godzilla RIGHT where the blood-technics were placed and set to go off Guess its now FX errors.

[LamangoKaijura]

Dude, we see damage appear RIGHT where SG's corona beam strikes Godzilla.

Because that's RIGHT where the pyrotechnics were set off. You can see where I'm going with this.

And that's the dumbest shit I've read on this forum. And I was around when I was around. And I typed some pretty dumb shit.

Except Godzilla recoiled from the tank round to the eye and was broken off in mid roar. Sounds and looks pretty intentional to me.

News flash, KK, they go through a thing called editing and adding sound effects. Half the time Haru Nakajima recoiled from tank rounds, cause those little fireworks can blast their way through two 2x4s. He's covered in a foam rubber suit that's easily flamable.

The whole 'tech goof' 'shit cgi' thing is stupid. A tech goof is seeing someone's hand guide an empty monster suit into another prop, ALA Anguirus's head being forced into Gigan's buzzsaw in Godzilla vs Gigan, or one of the remote controlled tanks they use suddenly exploding when firing a round at a kaiju. Or it's gun barrel falling off. Or when a wire snaps. THOSE are goofs.

[three]

well whether or not they intended it to happen, it happened.

but with that said, it looks more like the wound either didn't heal, or it had healed and simply left a scar. chalk it up to Godzilla's regen if you'd like. the Corona beam's power is coming from intense heat generated at the tip and turned into a very fine point. it's not like a hot knife, but more like a precision laser. this is why it blows MOGUERA to pieces, and why MG2 would like be alright if it was fired at him.

[Spuro]

Yep and MechaGodzilla and Gigan struck Godzilla RIGHT where the blood-technics were placed and set to go off Guess its now FX errors.

*facepalm*

In the case of Gigan and Mechagodzilla the damage to the suit was intentional. The damage done by that pyrotechnic was not. The pyrotechnic was designed to cause flashy sparks to simulate beam strikes, just like the other countless times throughout the Heisei series. The explosion was either overestimated, or the suit wasn't well crafted (the tail did fall off in the same movie), and it was accidentally damaged. Unlike Gigan and Mechagodzilla, Spacegodzilla's beam was never supposed to do that.

It's a goof. How many times to I need to repeat myself to get this through your thick skull?

News flash, KK, they go through a thing called editing and adding sound effects. Half the time Haru Nakajima recoiled from tank rounds, cause those little fireworks can blast their way through two 2x4s. He's covered in a foam rubber suit that's easily flamable.

Well no shit, Sherlock. Why do you think I pointed out that he stopped in mid-roar? By using that sound cue they acknowledged what happened onscreen, be it intentional or not. By comparison, there's nothing about Godzilla's supposed "damage" from the corona beam that so much as hints that it was acknowledged. It's the tail falling off all over again.

[three]

Kaiju_King: he's approaching it in the wrong way, but the gist of what he's saying is that we can't write it off.

if you wanna call it an outlier, that's fine, but it does not discount that it happened.

[EmperorGhidorah]

*facepalm*

In the case of Gigan and Mechagodzilla the damage to the suit was intentional. The damage done by that pyrotechnic was not. The pyrotechnic was designed to cause flashy sparks to simulate beam strikes, just like the other countless times throughout the Heisei series. The explosion was either overestimated, or the suit wasn't well crafted (the tail did fall off in the same movie), and it was accidentally damaged. Unlike Gigan and Mechagodzilla, Spacegodzilla's beam was never supposed to do that.

It's a goof. How many times to I need to repeat myself to get this through your thick skull?

You...you have absolutely no evidence for that. Give me proof that the creators didn't want SG's corona beam to damage Godzilla, despite showing us the corona beam damaged Heisei Godzilla multiple times. MULTIPLE TIMES.

And my thick skull? Nice. But it's interesting how everyone here keeps telling you that you're wrong and you continue to ignore what they are saying. So I'm sorry, who has the thick skull again?

[Demon Lord Gira]

Okay. KK, EG, Lamango, I've already stated twice now to drop it and move on. if I have to say it AGAIN, there are going to be warnings handed out for going off topic and flame baiting.

TLDR: KNOCK IT OFF AND GET BACK ON TOPIC. OR ELSE.

[Beef Bigshot]

Hey fun fact. The moguera that was damaged in space was actually lost in space. The one that appears later is actually one they built right after.

Say its ridiculous all you want. The info is actually official, even though its insane

[three]

Hey fun fact. The moguera that was damaged in space was actually lost in space. The one that appears later is actually one they built right after.

Say its ridiculous all you want. The info is actually official, even though its insane

who's this according to?

[Demon Lord Gira]

Hey fun fact. The moguera that was damaged in space was actually lost in space. The one that appears later is actually one they built right after.

Say its ridiculous all you want. The info is actually official, even though its insane

who's this according to?

Yes. I am most interested in hearing where this news came from, since both the MA and TK bio for Mogs says otherwise.

[Spuro]

Hey fun fact. The moguera that was damaged in space was actually lost in space. The one that appears later is actually one they built right after.

Say its ridiculous all you want. The info is actually official, even though its insane

Source? First time I've heard of that.

[Tomzilla]

I've watched the original Japanese version of Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla on numerous occasions. This idea that MOGUERA was abandoned in space only to be subsequently replaced by a new one later in the film is fictious. Not only is this never stated, it's never shown.

Fun fact: After its defeat in space, MOGUERA received repairs and upgrades, presumably to counteract SpaceGodzilla's electromagnetic frequencies from interfering with its instruments.

[three]

Fun fact: After its defeat in space, MOGUERA received repairs and upgrades, presumably to counteract SpaceGodzilla's electromagnetic frequencies from interfering with its instruments.

aye, ergo it would not be a large assumption that MOGUERA is less sensitive to EMP bursts. nice catch; it's a neat little ability (though it wouldn't alter the thread's conclusion).

[g2vd]

This is interesting.
http://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/moguera_heisei.htm

PLASMA LASER CANNONS

The Plasma Laser Cannons are located in the eyes of the giant machine. The cannons were designed with rapid fire in mind. This weapon was the primary one used by Moguera in it's space dogfight with SpaceGodzilla. It was also the first weapon to be disabled by the space monster's electromagnetic rings.

The beams are said to be three times as powerful as the beam discharge of Mechagodzilla.

Also Beef was 100% RIGHT!

Before Moguera could use it's weapons further, the enemy countered with a corona beam and electromagnetic energy rings. The attack knocked out the Plasma Laser Cannon, and furthered degraded the mech's internal systems. The three crew members aboard struggled to turn the mech around, combating barely responsive controls. With the Plasma Laser Cannon out, the crew resorted to using the auto-tracking laser cannons. Lifting it's arms, Moguera tracked onto the space creature, lacing the beast with laser beams. Angering the monster, the space creature let loose with another electromagnetic energy ring. The attack disabled the last of the mech's weapon systems, while Moguera's controls went haywire. The crystal formed monster then landed the killing blow, slamming into the machine with it's gigantic crystal body. The strike severed one of Moguera's legs, and the craft was sent spinning out of control. Both the machine and the crew were lost, while it's alien opponent continued, victoriously, toward Earth.

With the first Moguera destroyed, the UNGCC (United Nations Godzilla Countermeasures Center) began to focus on a second to combat the new space monster. Although identical in most respects to the first, the second was equipped with a jamming system named MECM. This interferes with electromagnetic waves, a direct response to what allowed the space monster to easily defeat the first Moguera. With this improvement, the craft was christened with a new name as Mogeura II - SRF.

[ZillaJr-KaijuKing]

So MOGUERA's top speed in space is Mach 44. I vaguely remember people saying MOGUERA was faster than light in space for reaching the asteroid belt in minutes, but I knew that had to be exaggerated.