Respect HeiseiGoji

Discuss and analyze various feats!
User avatar
Breakdown
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5453
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:42 pm
Location: The Hollow

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Breakdown » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:48 pm

^ Heisei Mechagodzilla's diamond armor was melted away beforehand. With that in mind, that's a good durability feat for Mechagodzilla given that it's primary defensive measure was gone and the alloy underneath was able to withstand the punishment.
Image
Boo-Hoo, I'm leaking lubricant!

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1438
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:24 pm

Breakdown wrote:^ Heisei Mechagodzilla's diamond armor was melted away beforehand. With that in mind, that's a good durability feat for Mechagodzilla given that it's primary defensive measure was gone and the alloy underneath was able to withstand the punishment.

That's incorrect. It was visibly evident where SMG's diamond armor was being melted off. And that wasn't everywhere. There were portions of his armor that appeared to be larger unaffected by the radioactive storm, namely his legs and parts of his chest. Which were, coincidently, areas struck by the spiral rays.
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
Breakdown
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5453
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:42 pm
Location: The Hollow

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Breakdown » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:45 pm

They clearly say "The armor plate; it's melting!!!", and "The armor's going, sir!" implying that the entire armor system was failing. It doesn't make any sense for something as widespread as a "radiation storm" to affect only bits and pieces of it. Regardless, I dunno why you're arguing this. It doesn't make the Spiral Ray look weaker.
Image
Boo-Hoo, I'm leaking lubricant!

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1438
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:31 pm

Breakdown wrote:They clearly say "The armor plate; it's melting!!!", and "The armor's going, sir!" implying that the entire armor system was failing.

This point is a subjective one and it doesn't definitively support your stance. Using those lines of dialogue, I could make the assertion that they were talking about specific areas of SMG's diamond armor which, unlike your analysis, is supported by visual evidence.

It doesn't make any sense for something as widespread as a "radiation storm" to affect only bits and pieces of it.

This is a fair point and really, it all depends on how the radioactive particles were dispersed. There could very well have been particles that traveled in a more concentrated fashion, "attacking" certain areas of SMG's body more aggressively compared to others.

Regardless, I dunno why you're arguing this. It doesn't make the Spiral Ray look weaker.

I'm not necessarily arguing in an effort to prevent the spiral rays from looking weaker. I'm debating this feat simply because that is one of the core purposes of the FM Analysis section; proving and disproving feats.
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
Breakdown
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5453
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:42 pm
Location: The Hollow

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Breakdown » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:38 pm

EmperorGhidorah wrote:This point is a subjective one and it doesn't definitively support your stance. Using those lines of dialogue, I could make the assertion that they were talking about specific areas of SMG's diamond armor which, unlike your analysis, is supported by visual evidence.


This is a fair point and really, it all depends on how the radioactive particles were dispersed. There could very well have been particles that traveled in a more concentrated fashion, "attacking" certain areas of SMG's body more aggressively compared to others.



It's not really subjective when they specifically used the general phrase "the armor" instead of "some of the armor", which one can conclude that they meant the system as a whole was failing. Even if we go by your idea that only small parts where affected somehow, the armor still wasn't functioning at 100% and thus isn't really a feat. It would be like a bullet going through an already damaged ballistic vest.
Image
Boo-Hoo, I'm leaking lubricant!

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1438
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:16 am

Breakdown wrote:It's not really subjective when they specifically used the general phrase "the armor" instead of "some of the armor", which one can conclude that they meant the system as a whole was failing.

...And one could also conclude only parts of the system were failing. People use general terms or phrases to described specific things, y'know. For instance, if someone said "My leg hurts" they could be, and often are, referring to only a specific area of their leg. And, to go darker, if someone uses the general phrase "I'm going to shoot you" they are almost certainly talking about shooting only a specific point(s) on your body. That same line of logic can be applied to the what you're saying here. Just because they used the phrase "the armor" doesn't automatically mean they were talking about the armor as a whole.

I'm not saying that they definitely, 100%, did not mean the entire armor was being melted away. But the dialogue that you specified above can be interpreted in different ways; it is subjective, open to interpretation. Especially since, again, there is visual evidence to support an analysis that is different from yours.

Even if we go by your idea that only small parts where affected somehow, the armor still wasn't functioning at 100% and thus isn't really a feat. It would be like a bullet going through an already damaged ballistic vest.

Oh absolutely, the armor wasn't functioning at 100%...in the areas that were being affected. Doesn't necessarily mean areas that didn't appear to be melting away (i.e. SMG's legs) weren't functioning properly.

Using your analogy, if there was a ballistic vest that was damaged in the front, that wouldn't affect the stopping power of the back part of the vest. At all. That same principle can be perfectly applied here; one area of SMG's armor being melted away does not mean the entire diamond coating, and its ability to absorb and negate beams, had been compromised.
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
ZillaJr-KaijuKing
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby ZillaJr-KaijuKing » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:24 am

EmperorGhidorah wrote:Oh absolutely, the armor wasn't functioning at 100%...in the areas that were being affected. Doesn't necessarily mean areas that didn't appear to be melting away (i.e. SMG's legs) weren't functioning properly.

Using your analogy, if there was a ballistic vest that was damaged in the front, that wouldn't affect the stopping power of the back part of the vest. At all. That same principle can be perfectly applied here; one area of SMG's armor being melted away does not mean the entire diamond coating, and its ability to absorb and negate beams, had been compromised.

Here, you can see smoke coming from MechaGodzilla's head, chest, and legs. In the close-up, you can see smoke coming from its chest more clearly. At the least, all of the diamond coating on the front part of its body burned off. It's unreasonable to think that only some of it was burned off when the radiation was emitted in all directions and hit all of MechaGodzilla's front. There's nothing to suggest the radiation was distributed unevenly.

User avatar
three
Keizer
Posts: 9485
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:26 am
Location: Hueco Mundo

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby three » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:25 pm

actually the coating wasn't compromised. it could still absorb energy, but not enough to prevent the damage being done.

put simply: Godzilla was now emitting enough heat to negate the advantage of the diamond coating, which was shown when the armor beneath began to melt and steam from the proximity to Godzilla.
:pokeball: :cookie: :mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen

Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®

axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - skreeonk in space.

User avatar
toho_guy01
Interpol Agent
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby toho_guy01 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:03 pm

EmperorGhidorah wrote:Spiral Rays

- punched through Super Mechagodzilla's diamond-beam-absorbing armor

I think it just melted the armor, I might be wrong.
That fella that still exists for whatever reason.

User avatar
GodzillaLord
Interpol Agent
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:31 pm
Location: Court of Azathoth

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby GodzillaLord » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:07 am

ZillaJr-KaijuKing wrote:I know the VS Battles Wiki should generally be taken with a grain of salt, but Heisei Godzilla's stats in that Wiki and the explanations for them caught my attention.

According to the article, Heisei Godzilla (not Burning) is at least a planet buster in terms of power. Both Mothra and Battra together couldn't defeat him, and both of them were stated to be strong enough to destroy a meteor capable of destroying the Earth. This would require that the meteor be 3/5 the size of Earth.

The article also points out that, because SpaceGodzilla was born from Godzilla cells absorbing the energy of a supernova, SpaceGodzilla is theoretically Star level in terms of power. Heisei Godzilla defeating SpaceGodzilla puts him at Star level according to the article, maybe even Solar System level through his Burning form.

It seems to rely on a fair share of assumptions, though. Again, people tend to take these with a grain of salt, but I thought it was interesting.


Well after being a moron, who believed a crackdown was in progress, i have crawled out of my bunker. (I am dumb)

Vs. Battles shouldn't be taken with anything at all, the superior website when it comes to scaling Kaiju power is OBD: http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... 5-godzilla
"I learned whence Cthulhu first came, and why half the great temporary stars of history had flared forth."

GodzillaLord wrote:
Birdman wrote:Do you like what you see?.


No. Given that the majority of Godzilla kaiju aren't sentient and are essentially just large animals, that's a little bit messed up. "Shrug", i digress do what you like, but i don't need the information.

User avatar
Inferno Rodan
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3706
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: Remnant

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Inferno Rodan » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:58 am

three wrote:actually the coating wasn't compromised. it could still absorb energy, but not enough to prevent the damage being done.

put simply: Godzilla was now emitting enough heat to negate the advantage of the diamond coating, which was shown when the armor beneath began to melt and steam from the proximity to Godzilla.

But that's wrong. The dust from Rodan's sacrifice corroded it away. There was no heat involved there. This is blatantly obvious by the fact that, y'know, nothing else is bursting into flame or melting in the scene.

GodzillaLord wrote:Vs. Battles shouldn't be taken with anything at all, the superior website when it comes to scaling Kaiju power is OBD: http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... 5-godzilla

That site isn't much better honestly.
"The rantings of an upjumped zealot make for tedious listening." - Grigori, Dragon's Dogma

User avatar
three
Keizer
Posts: 9485
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:26 am
Location: Hueco Mundo

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby three » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:20 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:But that's wrong. The dust from Rodan's sacrifice corroded it away. There was no heat involved there. This is blatantly obvious by the fact that, y'know, nothing else is bursting into flame or melting in the scene.


nah man. what is pretty obvious is that there is heat involved by the fact that it gets an in-film reference.

i believe the exact line is,
the armor plating; it's melting!


(or something like that). so yes, heat is involved. and of course nothing is burning everywhere else. they're standing in a field of rubble XD nothing there to burn, but there's plenty to melt standing in front of big G.

EDIT: corrected my quote to reflect what was said in the film. now it's exact.
:pokeball: :cookie: :mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen

Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®

axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - skreeonk in space.

User avatar
Inferno Rodan
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3706
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: Remnant

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Inferno Rodan » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:09 pm

three wrote:nah man. what is pretty obvious is that there is heat involved by the fact that it gets an in-film reference.

i believe the exact line is,
the armor plating; it's melting!


(or something like that). so yes, heat is involved.

I suppose you think acid damages things via heat too then, right? Because that's what people usually say acid does: melt things. Also, diamond (including artificial diamond) doesn't really melt. I meant, technically it can, but it requires other factors that simply weren't present in that scene (no air and/or extremely high pressure). Diamond catches fire and burns before it melts under normal atmospheric pressure.

and of course nothing is burning everywhere else. they're standing in a field of rubble XD nothing there to burn, but there's plenty to melt standing in front of big G.

There were obviously flammable things around, given how Godzilla's Spiral beam was sending plumes of fire skyward every time he raked it across the ground.
"The rantings of an upjumped zealot make for tedious listening." - Grigori, Dragon's Dogma

User avatar
three
Keizer
Posts: 9485
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:26 am
Location: Hueco Mundo

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby three » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:18 pm

yea, not feeling ya on that one. it's a leap to assume that Rodan's residual energy corroded just the armor off of MG2.

and i'm not talking about the diamond coating melting. i'm saying that the metal beneath it was melting (and i suppose that's what is being said in the film, also, since you're right about diamond not up and melting, i think).

EDIT: i forgot to mention the towers of flame: his breath can cause explosions. it's amplified in how powerful it is w/Rodan's addition. no surprise that even rubble was send flying in a cloud of flame.
:pokeball: :cookie: :mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen

Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®

axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - skreeonk in space.

User avatar
Inferno Rodan
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3706
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: Remnant

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Inferno Rodan » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:32 pm

three wrote:yea, not feeling ya on that one. it's a leap to assume that Rodan's residual energy corroded just the armor off of MG2.

and i'm not talking about the diamond coating melting. i'm saying that the metal beneath it was melting (and i suppose that's what is being said in the film, also, since you're right about diamond not up and melting, i think).

And you think it somehow makes more sense for his beam to have melted MG's armor without doing anything to the diamond coating? That's some really shitty metal MG is made of then, considering the ignition point of diamond is only 800 degrees.

But whatever. I know how you are, three. You've already told me via PM that no amount of evidence can convince you of anything you don't want to believe when it comes to FMs, so there's no point in discussing much of anything with you anyway.
"The rantings of an upjumped zealot make for tedious listening." - Grigori, Dragon's Dogma

User avatar
three
Keizer
Posts: 9485
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:26 am
Location: Hueco Mundo

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby three » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:37 pm

lol, c'mon man. don't be such a hardass about it. we're both stubborn, but there's no reason for us to be talking down to one another. you're smart; not always right, but definitely one of the single most intelligent commenters i've run into anywhere online, and yet you resort to these low jabs all the time. why is that?

and hey, if you don't wanna discuss it with me, that's fine. but i'll finish the discussion for us both, if you're going to leave me with the last word: yea, the metal MG2 is composed of is pretty crappy. that's why they decided to rip the diamond coating off of the (now dilapidated) metal head of MKG. ya gotta keep in mind that, at least that part of the design, wasn't their tech. it came from the futurians. it no longer could absorb enough of the heat to protect the metal beneath it, so MG began to fail.

you are welcome to your own theory on this, since i have been looking over the monster bios and such to find evidence to corroborate either of our sides and couldn't find anything. *shrug*
:pokeball: :cookie: :mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen

Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®

axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - skreeonk in space.

User avatar
Breakdown
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5453
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:42 pm
Location: The Hollow

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Breakdown » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:28 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:That site isn't much better honestly.

I'd actually like to see you debate some of the people there in regards to the stuff listed on the kaiju profiles. I'm genuinely interested in seeing both sides of the argument.
Image
Boo-Hoo, I'm leaking lubricant!

User avatar
GodzillaLord
Interpol Agent
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:31 pm
Location: Court of Azathoth

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby GodzillaLord » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:32 am

Inferno Rodan wrote:
three wrote:actually the coating wasn't compromised. it could still absorb energy, but not enough to prevent the damage being done.

put simply: Godzilla was now emitting enough heat to negate the advantage of the diamond coating, which was shown when the armor beneath began to melt and steam from the proximity to Godzilla.

But that's wrong. The dust from Rodan's sacrifice corroded it away. There was no heat involved there. This is blatantly obvious by the fact that, y'know, nothing else is bursting into flame or melting in the scene.

GodzillaLord wrote:Vs. Battles shouldn't be taken with anything at all, the superior website when it comes to scaling Kaiju power is OBD: http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... 5-godzilla

That site isn't much better honestly.


Well it's much better, but it's pretty inaccuarate. At least it dosen't have star busting M.O.G.U.E.R.A.
"I learned whence Cthulhu first came, and why half the great temporary stars of history had flared forth."

GodzillaLord wrote:
Birdman wrote:Do you like what you see?.


No. Given that the majority of Godzilla kaiju aren't sentient and are essentially just large animals, that's a little bit messed up. "Shrug", i digress do what you like, but i don't need the information.

User avatar
Gerdzerl
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3334
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:16 pm
Location: Inside an 80's neon space station in high orbit
Contact:

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Gerdzerl » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:01 pm

Any suggestions as to how I can improve this temporary placeholder calc I made? It's probably horribly inaccurate: http://sta.sh/0jlfbridb4e

It's mainly the distance between Godzilla and Mechagodzilla I'm having trouble getting to. They're both at weird, non-linear angles from each other and it's hard to calculate exactly how far away they are from each other, plus there's the fact that the Spiral Fire ray's explosions didn't cover the entire distance between Goji and MechaGoji, only just the majority of it, and I'm not sure how to calculate the size / angle / distance / whatever of that uncovered area in front of Godzilla's feet either.

User avatar
Inferno Rodan
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3706
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: Remnant

Re: Respect HeiseiGoji

Postby Inferno Rodan » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:55 pm

Gerdzerl wrote:Any suggestions as to how I can improve this temporary placeholder calc I made? It's probably horribly inaccurate: http://sta.sh/0jlfbridb4e

It's mainly the distance between Godzilla and Mechagodzilla I'm having trouble getting to. They're both at weird, non-linear angles from each other and it's hard to calculate exactly how far away they are from each other, plus there's the fact that the Spiral Fire ray's explosions didn't cover the entire distance between Goji and MechaGoji, only just the majority of it, and I'm not sure how to calculate the size / angle / distance / whatever of that uncovered area in front of Godzilla's feet either.

The main problem I have with this sort of thing is that fireball size is not necessarily indicative of explosion power. The calculation there works fine when specifically talking about nukes, since they scale a certain way. But when you have something like, say, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc7OLmDvDd8

It doesn't really work. There's also the whole SFX silliness deal, too.
"The rantings of an upjumped zealot make for tedious listening." - Grigori, Dragon's Dogma


Return to “FM Analysis”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest