Giratina93 wrote:As for the metal stuff, it took several whacks from Gigan to make Godzilla's head bleed, and the buzzsaw cut through Angy's face, but didn't completely go through him. In contrast, just Armor Mothra flying by GKG lopped off his wing.
However, GKG's wing if a far-thinner structure; the fact that Gigan did not completely saw other kaiju in half doesn't mean that he did not penetrate to the thickness required to cut through the wing just as Armor Mothra did.
This is also incorrect; at 1:10:45, Gigan's first pass instantly bloodlets Godzilla with a deep shoulder wound. I happen to have a copy of vs. Gigan with me at work today. (His second-through-fourth passes are just tackles, ramming Godzilla head-first rather than making a pass with the buzz-saw active).
Giratina93 wrote:2. Gigan and Megalon have to fly up to fight GKG in melee to get past the barrier, which they can definitely do... but that still leaves either of them at the mercy of GKG,
They will have to get in from some angle- both being fliers, they have a lot of directional angles to work from. And if GKG is under combined assault, they are not exactly 'at his mercy.'
Giratina93 wrote:and we've seen how they deal with beams (Not very well), so the winged lightning and gravity bolts won't be in their favor... or if GKG just flies down and decides to come crashing down ontop of one of them.
When do we see them handling beams particularly poorly? Showa's ray is enough to knock Gigan down, sure; but I don't recall any disproportionate damage being done. I don't see why they'd be disproportionately affected. Likewise, if GKG comes crashing down... the weight disparity is not nearly as great (moreso for Gigan than Megalon), and since both have point-blank attacks that can slice into the King, that would not be to his advantage. In addition, Megalon's burrowing ability would both allow him to get out from under the guy... or to come up within the barrier without taking incoming fire.
Giratina93 wrote:3. the fact that GKG's barrier withstood said chest beam, which at the very least is a powerful kinetic attack, means Hedorah, Megalon, GMK or Dessy are not going to break through that barrier with their beams or ranged attacks. They have to get up close... and really, only hedorah can hold his own (and even then, the gravity bolts are damn hot in their own right.)
Yeah, they'd have to walk up to him before launching beam attacks. (Though Hedorah's sludge, being non-energy, may go through unaffected). Hedorah can do so fairly easily, or can fly in and transform. Megalon can burrow or fly in. I can't remember if Destroyah can go microscopic and then reform? But he could also just walk in.
Meanwhile- and guys, we really need to have this Hedorah conversation and get on the same page- but
A. Do we have any onscreen confirmation of the temperature of gravity bolts? and
B. So is Showa Godzilla's breath, but it did nothing. Simply being a hot ray is not, apparently, enough to dehydrate Hedorah. My own theory, with the electricity, is the ability to really get in deep and dehydrate the tissues, instead of just burning the outer layer? We know electricity has that effect. I'd be willing to bet a flamethrower does. But we've also seen that an atomic ray doesn't. So until we nail down what qualities make the difference, I find it hard to assert that any ray or beam attack automatically has that effect. (And I am further unconvinced that Ghidorah's *gravity* beams have either the heat or electrical properties necessary).
Giratina93 wrote:4. heisei's standard beam is average at best, if not slightly above what Showa Godzilla has.
No. It's at least five times as hot, and generally considered the most devastating of the bade Godzilla beams.
Giratina93 wrote:We don't know how good the metal used for MKG was, but it's certainly less durable than normal HKG. SMG wasn't damaged by a normal beam, but by overheating from having his own megabuster be used for ten seconds straight in the beam clash. Mogs was blown up by a spiral ray, and I do not recall it doing anything to SG.
Okay, so- to start, the claim was that Heisei Godzilla didn't damage anyone but weak or already-damaged kaiju. That's already been disproven by this list. Secondly, we don't know that the future-tech alloys are less durable than Heisei King Ghidorah; indeed, the fact that Heisei's ray blew off one of the heads but did not do so to SMG would seem to bely that. (And if the explanation offered is that the nuclear pulse damaged the neck first... then the fact that a broad, spherical shockwave can so weaken the structure of an opponent that was supposedly dominating up to that point that a sudden decapitation is possible doesn't speak well of the structural integrity or durability of Heisei King Ghidorah in the first place). I don't believe that SuperMechagodzilla's only damage was purely from overheating; it took damage in multiple instances. However, it's been a while since I've seen that one, so I'll assume otherwise.
Moguera was blown up by a spiral ray, but still took damage from Godzilla's hits when attacking him initially. SpaceGodzilla was damaged- and eventually killed off- by hits from Godzilla's ray. As part of a cumulative effort, sure; but the question was not whether other kaiju were killed solely by the ray, but whether it did damage. Which it did. Again, the underplaying of Heisei's ray is just not viable. And based on its feats, I am still skeptical of the claim that Rainbow Mothra's arsenal was more powerful.
I'll grant that the durability against melee/kinetic attacks has been demonstrated. I mean, all Mothras head-first tackle and tend to be okay, so I don't count that. But surviving GKG's tackle is a decent durability feat. That said, against rays- which is the benchmark we're looking at here, to determine the strength of GKG's attacks, 'being wrecked by the bolts but not killed' is not a benchmarkable feat. It gives us a comparitor to other attacks from Rainbow Mothra's enemies, sure; but in terms of Rainbow Mothra's durability, it doesn't give us anything to compare to; 'Rainbow Mothra is durable because he survived a beam which wrecked Rainbow Mothra' is essentially circular logic.
The best feat for power is is the buildings. Still not great, because explosion-size is used disproportionately (the explosions in the supposedly-weaker Gamera universe are just as big as the ones in the powerhouse-toho universe)- but close enough. I'm having trouble finding any video clips; I'm assuming, in this case, 'vaporized' is 'exploded bigly'? I mean, keep in mind that Jiger's heat-ray vaporized a city block, as did Mechagodzilla's rotating missiles, and Kiryu's missiles blew up large buildings entirely. So that may give us a benchmark range right there- depending on how the explosions themselves looked, and whether they took out more than one building at a time, and how accurately they hit.
EDIT: Lest I be misunderstood; I'm not trying to claim that Grand King Ghidorah isn't a tough hombre (or that his attack power is as low as Jiger's; that was just an example of how feats against buildings aren't always scalable, especially between alternate-universes). As I said, I suspect it would take multiple kaiju to defeat Grand King Ghidorah, and not just simple meleers like Titano and Kumonga. What I'm trying to address are the claims that he is so invulnerable as to be untouchable by anyone on the other team, or such a blitzkrieg of damage that he could hold at bay any attackers or mow down all the opposition rather than being focused on his own fight. He's tough- and I don't take him lightly (again, to the point that if Destroyah were out of the picture, not occupying him and allowing other kaiju to help their brethren enough to assemble a team of 5-7 to oppose GKG, I would be voting the other way). But I am debating that GKG is so OTT-powerful that nothing on GodzillavsRayquaza's team can touch him, or that everything facing him will fall. I don't think he's demonstrated either attack or defense power sufficient against objective, benchmarkable opposition, to support those claims.