Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

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Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:08 am

GodzillavsRayquaza
- Godzilla (GMK)
- Hedorah
- Titanosaurus
- Mothra (1964)
- Megalon
- Kumonga (Showa)
- The Big One
- Mothra ('03)
- Megaguirus
- Mechani-Kong
- Gigan (Showa)
- Destroyah

vs.

Giratina93
- Godzilla (2000)
- King Ghidorah (Heisei)
- King Kong (2005)
- Gigan (2004) V1
- Rodan ('64)
- Gipsy Danger
- Baragon (01)
- Fire Rodan
- Kiryu V2
- Grand King Ghidorah

Arena: Aoki Forest (RoMIII)

Destroyah can only reform 5 times.

Want your Gyaos deployed GvR? Voting may begin with your answer.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby GodzillavsRayquaza » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:14 am

Yeah i’ll deploy the Gyaos
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:44 am

GvR now has 3 Gyaos fighting for him, and the round may begin!
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:09 am

Well, now. What a match. This is… tough, actually.

Buckle up. I just spent way too much time breaking this down.


Functionally, thanks to Megaguirus’ high-frequency wave, we have:
- Godzilla (GMK)
- Hedorah
- Titanosaurus
- Mothra (1964)
- Megalon
- Kumonga (Showa)
- The Big One
- Mothra ('03)
- Megaguirus
- Mechani-Kong
- Gigan (Showa)
- Destroyah
-3 Gyaos

vs.

- Godzilla (2000)
- King Ghidorah (Heisei)
- King Kong (2005)
- Gigan (2004) V1 (impaired? Hard to say how the EMP would affect him, but he’d be at least partially crippled)
- Rodan ('64)
- Baragon (01)
- Fire Rodan
- Grand King Ghidorah

The numbers advantage is telling. BUT. If we read Grand King Ghidorah’s profile literally (I mean, I tend to- hence asserting MechaG 75’s shield- but I know y’all don’t, since you won’t let me resurrect someone when Mothra dies! ;) ), and Grand King Ghidorah can teleport smaller forms (not just children) into his dome, then not only are the Gyaos almost instantly gobbled up, there is an argument to be made that as soon as Destroyah breaks down, GKG can gobble up all the aggregates. Which would be devastating. On this hinge two questions- firstly, if the aggregates are within the size range that GKG can absorb, and secondly, whether Destroyah reforming inside would be sufficient to breach the dome and escape, or whether the corrosive effect would hold him at bay and destroy him if he tried to burst out.

Honestly, I have no idea, on either. Honestly, a lot depends on whether Destroyah breaks down into the Aggregate form (60 meters tall, the guy that fought with Junior), or Juvenile form (2-18 meters; the guys in the Aliens rip-off scene). Anyone know for sure? Like I said, I can’t parse the scaling in that final battle.

Let’s see what happens if we assume Destroyah only gets basically one life’s worth of play…

I do think that 2000 can defeat GMK, though not quickly. That’ll tie them up. Likewise, I think that 2005 Kong can (eventually) defeat Titanosaurus, but it won’t be quick. A crippled millennium Gigan (or even a healthy one) will be no match for Gigan and Megalon. Rodan is likely to take down the Mothras. The big Skullcrawler can definitely take Baragon.
That leaves the heavy-hitters, really; Destroyah vs. Grand King Ghidorah, and Hedorah vs. Heisei King Ghidorah. Fire Rodan is kind of a wild-card, able to assist in any of the other matches; so, on the other hands, are Kumonga, Mechani-Kong, and Megaguirus.
But before I count off the final results- those wild cards change things quite a bit.
Now, first off- if either Kumonga or Mechani-Kong get involved with the Kong/Titano fight, I think that’d turn it around; I’m going to postulate Kumonga. Megaguirus, based on her past behavior, is likely to drain 2000- and based on his slow fire-rate, she’s likely to succeed. I’m betting Fire Rodan’s going to annihilate Mechani-Kong on the way- and then engage Megaguirus, who’ll return fire with her stolen weaponry. This is a pretty good duel; she has the agility to evade his shots; he has the durability to endure her hits. This one could go either way.
But the ripple-effect from this is going to back-foot 2000, without his primary powers, and give GMK an advantage. Unfortunately, he’s going to be slow enough to chew through that GMK is not going to be freed up quickly- and 2000 will regain his powers, with Megaguirus too busy to come drain him again. But this might be enough to bring things to GMK’s eventual favor, or at least mutual annihilation.

Personally, I don’t see Ghidorah’s bolts as dehydrators; if you do, where things go from here may shift somewhat for you.

I would see Hedorah vs. King Ghidorah and Fire Rodan vs. Megaguirus going on for a while (just like GMK vs. 2000), and while Destroyah would do some damage to Grand King Ghidorah, he would get broken down and vacuumed up… just about the time that victors from the prior matches start arriving.

This is the crisis point. This is what it all hinges on.

This would leave:
G2000 vs. GMK
Hedorah vs. King Ghidorah (Heisei)
2000-powered Megaguirus vs. Fire Rodan
Rodan to get double-teamed by the flying duo of Gigan and Megalon
Titanosaurs, Kumonga, and the Big Skullcrawler left to face Grand King Ghidorah. This is the worst possible thing to happen to Godzillavsrayquaza’s team- but they’re the only ones available.

Rodan’s toast. The Big Skullcrawler’s going to be the first to die, with Titanosaurus and Kumonga well on their way.
But what’s this? A twist? Whether it be just running out of luck from Fire Rodan’s spammy sharpshooting, or overextending herself as her drained powers wear out, I think Megaguirus will bite the dust, too- leaving not only a battered Fire Rodan, but also a Kiryu and Gypsy Danger to enter the fray!

By this time, I’d put Hedorah and KG both in bad shape (KG slightly worse). Grand King Ghidorah would be wounded, but not seriously, and partially webbed; Kumonga would be on the way out, with titano hurting badly.

Hedorah (mildly wounded) vs. King Ghidorah (Heisei) (badly wounded)
Titanosaurus (mildly wounded), Kumonga (badly wounded) vs Grand King Ghidorah (wounded).
Gigan and Megalon would swing around to take on yet another Rodan.
Gypsy Danger would move to reinforce GKG, annihilating the wounded combatants. Kiryu would move to reinforce King Ghidorah, and the two of them would take Hedorah down. Gigan and Meglaon would eliminate fire Rodan, but take wounds.

And so, the final battle…
Gigan and Megalon (both wounded) vs. Mortally-wounded King Ghidorah (Heisei), Kiryu v2, Gypsy Danger, and Grand King Ghidorah (wounded). And despite their valor and damage-sponge, I can see Gigan and Megalon, at best, taking down Heisei King Ghidorah and one of the mechs- maybe both- before expiring. They just don’t have what it takes. And even if GMK emerges victorious from his match about this time, he’ll be cut down as well. Grand King ghidorah is just too powerful for what GodzilavsRayquaza can afford to throw at him.

Of course, this is ONE possibility. Here’s the other; at the ‘crisis point’ pointed out above, Destroyah’s aggregates can reform (even if GKG picks off a number of them)/Destroyah breaks out of the dome and continues the fight against Grand King Ghidorah, while the melee trio (Titanosuarus, Kumonga, and the Big Skullcrawler) go to reinforce Hedorah and GMK. This double-teaming quickly allows GMK and Hedorah to triumph- and they, as well as the trio and Destroyah, take the Fight to Grand King Ghidorah (while the other side-battles rage as previously noted), eventually joined by Gigan and Megalon… and Grand King Ghidorah falls.

So, just as my last match with GvRQ hinged on a single question- would Megaguirus go for Heisei and get herself killed or not- this one hinges on a single question as well; which form does Destroyah break down into. (And secondarily, even if the smaller, could Destroyah break out of the dome without taking serious crippling damage).

Upon the answer to that question, my vote hinges.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby GodzillavsRayquaza » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:34 am

Zarm wrote:Which form does Destoroyah break down into?


Destoroyah does break down into the Aggregates, they’re much larger than 18 meters and they have the appendages which jut out of their backs. Even if GKG could teleport them into the dome, there’s nothing suggesting the acidity of the dome would be heavily damaging to final form Destoroyah, as the acid quite simply has no feats on the level of kaiju. It took at least a second to destroy a soccer ball if I remember correctly.

I’ll come back to this later to give my arguements, just wanted to get this out there.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:42 am

Yep. Just checked myself- one of them on top of Godzilla is about half his height. Okey-dokey, then. I'm voting for GodzillavsRayquaza, as without the ability to neutralize Destroyah early-on, Grand King Ghidorah is going to be overwhelmed.
Last edited by Giratina93 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Giratina93 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:15 am

.... uh, what?

I'm sorry, but GKG is perfectly capable of putting down Dessy. Hell, G2000 is more than capable of putting down Dessy. Do you want to know why? Dessy was getting torn open just from Heisei Godzilla slashing at him, something only Battra's adult form and Biollante share in frailty. GKG's gravity bolts are going to be more than enough to blow holes into the precambrian horror, but it's G2000's beam Destroyah's going to HAAAAATE more than anything else. Remember that Destroyah HATES extreme temperatures: Not just the extreme cold which spelled its demise, but the flames which repelled the agregates and the sheer heat and firepower Meltdown Godzilla had which caused Destroyah to run for the hills. G2000's beam has plenty of heat and explosive force, and is going to blow chunks out of Destroyah. Let's also not forget that Dessy is a crummy fighter who's laser horn is insanely dangerous... but instead prefers to just bump into enemies, drag them around a bit, and fire MO beams, which are just your standard heisei energy beam and lack the potency or ANYTHING of the OD itself.

Also, minor point, but Gipsy's analogue. if Leatherback's EMP had no effect on her, then neither will megaguirus's EMP. She'll be fully functional.

Now, in regards to this fight... My team still has the aerial supremacy. Both Mothras are ill equipped to take down Showa Rodan, Fire Rodan, AND both Ghidorahs. They're going to quickly get blown apart and decimated. Gigan's useless, as is Baragon for the most part, but that's a small price to pay to have aerial supremacy that GvR's team will struggle to handle.

The other thing that gives my side the edge is the beams. G2000, Fire Rodan, Heisei Ghidorah, and GKG all have beams they are more than happy to use and unleash hell with. Contrast with the other side... where it's really just Hedorah and GMK and even then... Mechani-Kong is going to get blown up, Megs is going to get blown up (Since she makes really bad use of her speed and only survived as long as she did because GxM Goji MISSED HER WHILE SHE WAS COMPLETELY STILL), Kong can probably handle the Big One if need be, and Titanosaurus HATES beams, and when the average beam being thrown around by my side is as potent, if not moreso than Showa Goji's beam... Yeah, Titano can dominate almost anyone I have 1v1, but it won't be pretty for him. Also, Gipsy will carve him up if he gets too close. Showa Gigan and Megalon also didn't enjoy Showa Godzilla beam, and Gigan was sent running by maser lasers... He's going to have FUUUN with all the gravity bolts flying around.

"BUT WAIT, THERE'S HEDORAH AND GMK GOJI THEMSELVES!" one may say, and yes, Hedorah's a pain in the ass to handle... but again, all the beams flying around from my side should be able to put him down, especially if G2000's beam rips bloody chunks out of him. And GMK... yeah, he's pretty mediocre. He's going to get battered around and put down.

And lastly... Grand King Ghidorah TROUNCED Rainbow Mothra, who is on par, if not more powerful than the likes of Showa and Heisei Godzilla, with ease. It wasn't even a contest, just completely decimated him. Any one kaiju on GvR's team that tries to go up against GKK, is not going to have a happy time. Hedorah has the best chance... and even then, there's still the gravity bolts, the wing lightning...

Voting for Me, Giratina.

EDIT: Also, five reforms is... dumb, since we've only seen Dessy reform ONCE, and even then... it's not really going to help it that much, since the aggregates will still get decimated by beam city.
Last edited by Giratina93 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 am

Giratina93 wrote: but it's G2000's beam Destroyah's going to HAAAAATE more than anything else. Remember that Destroyah HATES extreme temperatures: Not just the extreme cold which spelled its demise, but the flames which repelled the aggregates and the sheer heat and firepower Meltdown Godzilla had which caused Destroyah to run for the hills.


Not 100% sure I agree on the flames, but the bigger issue to me is- how would G2000's beam get to Destroyah? are he and GKG going to be double-teaming, leaving GMK to wander around unopposed and massacre the rest of the team? :)


Giratina93 wrote:Also, minor point, but Gipsy's analogue. if Leatherback's EMP had no effect on her, then neither will megaguirus's EMP. She'll be fully functional.


Fair point.


Giratina93 wrote:"BUT WAIT, THERE'S HEDORAH AND GMK GOJI THEMSELVES!" one may say, and yes, Hedorah's a pain in the ass to handle... but again, all the beams flying around from my side should be able to put him down, especially if G2000's beam rips bloody chunks out of him.


But again, this requires 2000 to be in three places at once- fighting Hedorah, Destroyah, and GMK- or else leaving 2 of them to be smashing around at will. A powerful fighter is still limited by availability for deployment.



Giratina93 wrote:"Rainbow Mothra, who is on par, if not more powerful than the likes of Showa and Heisei Godzilla,


At the moment, we must disagree on that point. Unless you just mean offensively (in which case I'd agree with the former but not the latter); but being trounced is really more a matter of durability. GKG seemed to have the durability to shrug off most things (which is why I, for one, didn't posit him going down lightly)... but I don't think his dealing out significant hurt to a Mothra- even a Mothra tricked out with a significant arsenal- is indication of overpowering damage potential.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby GodzillavsRayquaza » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:45 am

Grand King Ghidorah only trounced Rainbow Mothra because his force-field neutralized Leo’s ability to hurt him, because Rainbow Mothra is only beams. That’s all he has, so if you neutralize beams, you neutralize him. “But what about when Leo rammed Desghidorah out of the sky?” That was with a specific ability, which Rainbow Mothra never used on GKG because reasons.

And Destoroyah wasn’t torn open by Burning Godzilla slashing him, he was torn open when Burning Godzilla shot him in the chest three times in a row. And then Burning Godzilla slashed at the gaping wound, which is what made Destoroyah break down.
Last edited by GodzillavsRayquaza on Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Giratina93 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:01 am

Zarm wrote:
Giratina93 wrote: but it's G2000's beam Destroyah's going to HAAAAATE more than anything else. Remember that Destroyah HATES extreme temperatures: Not just the extreme cold which spelled its demise, but the flames which repelled the aggregates and the sheer heat and firepower Meltdown Godzilla had which caused Destroyah to run for the hills.


Not 100% sure I agree on the flames, but the bigger issue to me is- how would G2000's beam get to Destroyah? are he and GKG going to be double-teaming, leaving GMK to wander around unopposed and massacre the rest of the team? :)


*Looks at my team, then at GMK Goji, then back to my team, then back to GMK Goji*

Uhhh... the only people GMK can massacre are Kiryu (because EMP'd), and Baragon, and even then, it took GMK a while to put Baragon down. Everyone else is more than capable of fighting at least on even terms with him. Showa Rodan can distract and annoy him with ease, Fire Rodan would straight up dominate him, as would Heisei Ghidorah, Gipsy would carve GMK Godzilla up (and woe betide GMK if he gets stabbed through the beam passage, then blows himself up) and Kong 05 has more than enough fighting skill to bludgeon GMK into submission. And no, GKG and G2000 don't have to double team Dessy. Either one alone can easily handle Destroyah. And regarding the flames, the aggregates were sent packing from flamethrowers, and when Meltdown Godzilla was unleashing plumes of fires and heat with each nuclear pulse and beam, Destroyah was SCREAMING IN AGONY, even before a beam hit him in the face and blew a part of it off.


Also, I know G2000 can't be everywhere at once... I'm just saying, he can easily handle any one of those three if he fights them. Either GKG or G200 can ahndle either Dessy or Hedorah by themselves, and GMK, as I explained above, gets bodied by almost anyone on my team. And when most of your team has shown to really not like beams, that just makes things easier for my side, who has plenty of beams to deploy (only helped once Megs gets taken down so Kiryu comes back online)

Also, in regards to GKG... he got a wing lopped off from Armor Mothra (who's a literal flying indestructible knife), and kept on flying and fighting back to the bitter end. the explosions from his beams are ENORMOUS by Showa scale standards (Remember that RoM kaiju are on the 50 meter scale), and were vaporizing Heisei scale buildings. And you want to know how durable Rainbow Mothra is? His weight is 5,900 tons. GKG is 50,000 tons, almost ten times his weight. and Rainbow Mothra wasn't crushed into bug paste when GKG smashed down onto him. THAT is a pretty good indicator as to how durable Rainbow Mothra is.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:15 am

Giratina93 wrote:Uhhh... the only people GMK can massacre are Kiryu (because EMP'd), and Baragon, and even then, it took GMK a while to put Baragon down. Everyone else is more than capable of fighting at least on even terms with him.


I'd respectfully disagree. His nuclear breath was extremely powerful; it generated a literal mushroom-cloud. It would absolutely annihilate Gypsy in a single shot, wreck (but not insta-kill) either Rodan, put the hurt on Ghigorah, and Kong would be a roman candle. Heck, if they were standing close enough, I'd say Kong and Gypsy could be killed by grazes from the same single shot; neither has anything like the necessary durability against a Godzilla's heat ray. I will agree that GMK is a bit deficient in melee... but he's far more powerful than he's getting credit for.


Giratina93 wrote:And no, GKG and G2000 don't have to double team Dessy. Either one alone can easily handle Destroyah.

I only ask because you seemed to be positing his demise from multiple factors working in concert. if those were meant to be either/or, my mistake.


Giratina93 wrote:And regarding the flames, the aggregates were sent packing from flamethrowers, and when Meltdown Godzilla was unleashing plumes of fires and heat with each nuclear pulse and beam, Destroyah was SCREAMING IN AGONY, even before a beam hit him in the face and blew a part of it off.


GvD is not my most frequent watch, so it could be mistaken- but I thought I recalled Destroyah reforming out of flames. Possibly twice. In practice, flames didn't seem to be that harmful- even if being shot in the face with Burning Godzilla's ultra-ray was. :) I mean, I'm not going to claim Destroyah is completely invulnerable, especially in aggregate form... I just don't recall any special vulnerability to flame. Indeed, as per the breakdown on the site, "Fire may have helped Destoroyah prosper, but heat attacks injured it."

That said, yes- 2000's beam would fall under a heat attack.


Giratina93 wrote:Also, in regards to GKG... he got a wing lopped off from Armor Mothra (who's a literal flying indestructible knife), and kept on flying and fighting back to the bitter end.


Yes; according to the profile, he has anti-gravity powers in addition to wings. I don't see that as demonstrating anything except his ability to remain airborne. :)

Giratina93 wrote:the explosions from his beams are ENORMOUS by Showa scale standards (Remember that RoM kaiju are on the 50 meter scale), and were vaporizing Heisei scale buildings.


I'm not quite sure how that follows; the explosions are proportionally bigger, but so are the kaiju and their durability. That said, were buildings being vaporized? By which attacker?
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Giratina93 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:38 am

1. the mushroom cloud scene, when taking the rest of the movie into account, is an outlier, because GMK's beam NEVER gets anywhere near that powerful in any of the other times he uses it. It's a shot made for rule of symbolism, and that's all it can safely be taken as. Even IF we accept it, it takes so goddamn long to charge up before he nukes the place, he feasibly isn't going to get that off. When we look at all his other beam blasts... they don't seem to be anything special, and it's also hard to gauge when all the guardian monsters just dissolve into golden particles anyway upon dying (And Baragon apparently being made of explodium).

2. at that size, the flames from the burning buildings wouldn't annoy him that much, but the heat and power coming from MD Goji definitely was. I'm not saying you light a match and put it infront of final form Dessy and he'll run for the hills. I'm just saying, through each of his forms, extreme temperatures have always been a constant weakness.

3. GKG isn't going to go down until he's completely put out of commision, which is going to be a tall order not just with his aerial supremacy and beam spam, but his own natural tankiness (Getting rammed by Armor Mothra into the ground so hard the entire ground exploded, only to rise back up within seconds and come back for more)

4. buildings were vaporized by GKG's beams.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby GodzillavsRayquaza » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:43 am

Edit: Ninja’d, so nevermind.
Last edited by GodzillavsRayquaza on Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:45 am

In theory GMK could get one of the nuke shots off at the beginning, when the numbers advantage for his team is present.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Giratina93 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:06 pm

Coobzilla03 wrote:In theory GMK could get one of the nuke shots off at the beginning, when the numbers advantage for his team is present.


But... he's never done that in actual combat. He only did it when he saw all those people running away at his feet and decided to be a dick to them. In combat, against grounded foes, he saves the beam until he's ready to end the opponent (Baragon, Ghidorah until he 180 no scoped Mothra with it), and he's quite liberal with it when facing fliers (Mothra, Ghidorah when he got the power boost). I mean, he COULD, but given what we've seen of his combat, it's very unlikely, less so than Dessy using his laser horn (Which is already a scarcely used move as is, so...)
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby MuchWowSuchGodzilla » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:24 pm

The amount of GKG downplay is.....disrespectful.(half joking)


I cant see anyone on GvRs team beating GKG. He stomped Rainbow Mothra, who easily has more firepower than the likes of Heisei Godzilla, the durability to survive that beam spam, was rammed by Armor Mothra into the ground(who flies at mach 15), caused a massive explosion, then simply got back up. He has an almost unbreakable shield, EASILY leveled multiple buildings and caused massive explosions with just a few of his bolts, and on top of that has wing bolts aswell. He is going to fry Hedorah, and all Dessy has going for him is durability and his Kotana Beam, which he only used once or twice. But wait...we also have Heisei King Ghidorah, who would have killed Heisei Godzilla if it wasnt for the handy nuclear pulse, and also has building leveling bolts. G2000 can handle GMK, and I can see both Ghidorahs wiping out some of GvRs weaker kaiju like Titano, Motha, The Big One, and Kumonga. Hedorah merks whoever he goes against except for the Ghidorahs or Godzilla, but he is very slow moving and if he takes to the sky GKG will swiftly deal with him. Megaguiruis will be Girantinas main problem here, being able to drain G2000 again, but as I stated in another post, if she fires that ball of energy at anyone shes going to get sniped. It took her 22 seconds to fire it, and sitting still for that long is a death sentence. Kiryus a non factor here, Fire Rodan is arguable the most durable kaiju here, and I can see him killing the remaining Mothras if GKG hasnt dealt with them. Megalon and Gigan could probably take out Baragon, but I can see them weakened and finished off by Kong and FW Gigan. Girantina93 has my vote.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:56 pm

I don't know that I would agree about rainbow Mothra having greater firepower than Heisei, though. greater variety, sure- but greater actual power in any of the attacks, or even the combined barrage? I remain unconvinced on that.

Keep in mind GKG is not especially durable- just his barrier is. If that is circumvented, he doesn't seem to take much of a hit to down. Keep in mind, too, that three tiny faries with the Elias triangle both attack him to the point he notices, twice (once, without the triangle's power), and can spin a shield that resists his energy bubble, despite some of the attacks we've seen down them/fairy. This, combined with the lack of real benchmarks as to Leo's damage power (as far as I can tell), lead me to question whether the feats against Rainbow Mothra are as impressive as are claimed.

It is worth noting that Grand King Ghidorah was getting sliced to pieces by the same sort of bladed cutting attacks that Gigan will easily be able to offer, and was penetrated by a kamikaze attack that Megalon's flying drill could no doubt replicate (albeit, without the additional crystallization effect, so I'm sure it would take more than simply that to put him down). However, the important question is what allowed Armor Mothra ro penetrate the barrier in a way that Rainbow Mothra could not. And further, to demonstrate that none of the opponents facing Grand King Ghidorah in this battle possess the requisite qualities. (And if it's just flying up to him physically and not attempting to employ beam weaponry, then it's entirely possible that the duo of Gigan and Megalon would be sufficient to kill Grand King Ghidorah.)

Either way, Grand King Ghidorah has not been demonstrated to be invulnerable against attack. If anything, Armor Mothra who defeated him is far less powerfully-armed than Rainbow Mothra was. And if it's simply a matter of having heavier mass and sharp, non-beam physical weaponry, then this is provided against Grand King Ghidorah in spades.

I also don't see those gravity bolts as having a particular effect on Hedorah; they've never demonstrated electrical properties.

Keep in mind, too, that both Ghidorah's tend to just throw their bolts around the landscape- they aren't so great at targeted attacks, and that somewhat decreases their potency.

I think Megalon and Gigan are being underestimated as well; both have a high damage threshold, work together tactically, and have some pretty potent weaponry. Gigan alone could kill Kong with his flyby buzz-saw, and the two of them together could also easily take out FW Gigan- who, don't forget, is going to have all his mechanical components shut down by the high-frequency wave. I think the duo is getting just as under-hyped as GKG may be...

But I also don't hold the same benchmark levels for GKG's feats.


Lastly, regarding the assertion that GMK can't hold his own because of his rate of fire, keep in mind that I am positing a matchup between GMK and 2000- who also has moderate melee skills and a very slow fire rate. GMK will be able to get his beam off against 2000 because of 2000's oen lengthy delays. In order for him to be so dog-piled but he can't get a shot off, the numerical advantage would have to turn against GvRQ and leave his came out number, which my analysis above shows to be unlikely... and even if that is something that Grand King Ghidorah can eventually accomplish, it won't happen quickly.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Giratina93 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:12 pm

1. I don't doubt that Gigan's blades and buzzsaw are sharp... but Armor Mothra is on a while different level than Gigan. He had over 65 million years to evolve to specifically beat GKG, so no wonder his barrier was useless against AM. Megalon and Gigan just can't replicate what AM was able to do. AM's just... a skreeonking broken kaiju in her own right, head and shoulders above anything either of us pack, but that's not the argument in question. Also, GKG's barrier stops energy attacks, but only those a certain distance away. It's how the Elias were able to do anything to him: They were within the barrier. And if Gigan and Megalon try... they're going to get stomped back into the earth or blasted with gravity bolts and wing lightning.

2. Rainbow Mothra is a powerhouse of a kaiju. The chest cannon blew back Dagahra, a kaiju which tripled Leo in weight, for hundreds of meters, a feat similar, if not superior to SMG's plasma grenades. Rainbow Mothra was kicking Dagahra across the field, when it had earlier been besting Leo's base form, which had been enough to subdue the ungodly tanky, decently offensive powered Desghidorah. Heisei Godzilla's beam is not as potent as what Leo is packing, as his beam has only done damage to either weakened or already fragile entities like battra imago, Biollante, Destroyah and Ghidorah after nuclear pulse. (and before you ask, in the original japanese dub for GvD, it's stated that meltdown's beam before reaching 1190 or so is WEAKER than normal.)

3. G2000 is on a different level from GMK, and not just in the beam department (which is very severe). GMK also lacks any efficient healing, which is a plot point in the movie, while G2000 does have his... and going back to the beams, GMK's is rather mediocre, while G2000's... that is a DEVASTATING beam no matter who gets hit by it.

Man, if the old FM gifs for Rainbow Mothra's fights against Dagahra and GKG still worked, those would be wonderful to use...
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:22 pm

Giratina93 wrote:1. I don't doubt that Gigan's blades and buzzsaw are sharp... but Armor Mothra is on a while different level than Gigan. He had over 65 million years to evolve to specifically beat GKG, so no wonder his barrier was useless against AM.


With all due respect, that's complete conjecture. But even so, it isn't answer. Even if Mothra 'evolved' to defeat GKG, he still possessed some actual quality as a result of that development that allowed him to bypass the barrier, and that allowed his wings and tackles to do significant damage, which other kaiju might well possess naturally. (Just because it takes a moth millions of years to become made out of metal doesn't mean that other kaiju aren't that way to start with, if ya get my drift. ;) ). Since there was no indication (that I can recall) that any mystic quality was involved, the only qualifications we have to work with are 'bypassing due to not being an energy attack' and 'cutting because it was very sharp and GKG is susceptible to that' and 'being heavier than a moth to tackle him, and GKG is susceptible to that.' So I would submit that we don't have any quantifiable onscreen evidence to demonstrate Megalon and Gigan (or other kaiju) couldn't do the same things.


Giratina93 wrote:Also, GKG's barrier stops energy attacks, but only those a certain distance away. It's how the Elias were able to do anything to him: They were within the barrier. And if Gigan and Megalon try... they're going to get stomped back into the earth or blasted with gravity bolts and wing lightning.


I would disagree. If GKG is being attacked by multiple kaiju- especially kaiju more durable than an unarmored Mothra- I don't see any reason why several of them couldn't make it past the barrier. GKG did not demonstrate melee or barrage abilities sufficient to simply repel all comers.


Giratina93 wrote:2. Rainbow Mothra is a powerhouse of a kaiju. The chest cannon blew back Dagahra, a kaiju which tripled Leo in weight, for hundreds of meters, a feat similar, if not superior to SMG's plasma grenades.


Using the wrong benchmark for me; I think SMG and his aresenal are the most overhyped thing in kaiju-dom. :) However, kinetic force is not a measure of power; the UFO/Orga's beam managed a similar feat, yet it is not considered one of the powerhouses of the era. Kinetic force is only one measure of power, and often the least-damaging.


Giratina93 wrote:Rainbow Mothra was kicking Dagahra across the field, when it had earlier been besting Leo's base form, which had been enough to subdue the ungodly tanky, decently offensive powered Desghidorah.


But again, only tanky by the standards of Mothra. Lacking an objective benchmark, that doesn't say a whole lot. Also, I seem to recall that Mothra's beams weren't enough to destroy Daghara, requiring the micro-offensive? So, again, kinetic power, sure- but damage potential, I'm not convinced.


Giratina93 wrote:Heisei Godzilla's beam is not as potent as what Leo is packing, as his beam has only done damage to either weakened or already fragile entities like battra imago, Biollante, Destroyah and Ghidorah after nuclear pulse.


Heisei's beam has numerous demonstrated feats, including measurable damage to buildings and vehicles, and set stats. It has also done damage to Mecha King Ghidorah, Spacegodzilla, I believe Moguera (correct me if I'm wrong), Super Mecha Godzilla; Heisei's beam does damage to whatever it touches. Again, I don't think the notion that Leo is packing something more powerful si substantiated here.


Giratina93 wrote:(and before you ask, in the original japanese dub for GvD, it's stated that meltdown's beam before reaching 1190 or so is WEAKER than normal.)


Fair enough; that does sound familiar.


Giratina93 wrote:3. G2000 is on a different level from GMK, and not just in the beam department (which is very severe). GMK also lacks any efficient healing, which is a plot point in the movie, while G2000 does have his... and going back to the beams, GMK's is rather mediocre, while G2000's... that is a DEVASTATING beam no matter who gets hit by it.


This is true; GMK doesn't have a lot of healing- but he does have a ton of durability, to the point where only a macguffin drill-hole actually defeats him. He doesn't heal from his injuries- but he can tank a lot before he subcumbs to them. And again, the case for mediocrity on GMK's beam has not really been made. Though I agree that 2000's is powerful.


That said, there as been much debate, two votes- and GodzillavsRayquaza hasn't actually made his case yet. I'd be interested to hear that.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 8: GodzillavsRayquaza vs. Giratina93

Postby Giratina93 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:04 pm

1. I've already stated Rainbow Mothra's durability feats: Constantly ramming head first into other kaiju and not getting injured by the impact, and getting goombastomped into the earth by a kaiju ten times his weight and not becoming bug paste, and enduring GKG's gravity bolts which straight up vaporized entire buildings and left Rainbow Mothra himself a smoldering, smoking wreck (And also when combined made explosions which completely engulfed Rainbow Mothra's 50+ meter wingspan.) As for the metal stuff, it took several whacks from Gigan to make Godzilla's head bleed, and the buzzsaw cut through Angy's face, but didn't completely go through him. In contrast, just Armor Mothra flying by GKG lopped off his wing.

2. Gigan and Megalon have to fly up to fight GKG in melee to get past the barrier, which they can definitely do... but that still leaves either of them at the mercy of GKG, and we've seen how they deal with beams (Not very well), so the winged lightning and gravity bolts won't be in their favor... or if GKG just flies down and decides to come crashing down ontop of one of them.

3. the fact that GKG's barrier withstood said chest beam, which at the very least is a powerful kinetic attack, means Hedorah, Megalon, GMK or Dessy are not going to break through that barrier with their beams or ranged attacks. They have to get up close... and really, only hedorah can hold his own (and even then, the gravity bolts are damn hot in their own right.)

4. heisei's standard beam is average at best, if not slightly above what Showa Godzilla has. We don't know how good the metal used for MKG was, but it's certainly less durable than normal HKG. SMG wasn't damaged by a normal beam, but by overheating from having his own megabuster be used for ten seconds straight in the beam clash. Mogs was blown up by a spiral ray, and I do not recall it doing anything to SG.
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