Toho Kingdom

Zarm
- Godzilla (Heisei)
- Jiger
- Jet Jaguar

vs.

MuchWowSuchGodzilla
- Godzilla (2014)
- MUTO (Female)
- Kumonga (2004)
- King Ghidorah (2001)

Arena: Tokyo (Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah)

MuchWow, do you wish to deploy your three Gyaos for this match? Voting may begin after your answer.

I will deploy my 3 Gyaos.

Wellll... that does make things tricky.

Because I think Jiger can take this Kumonga easily, but will probably get webbed up in the process. That may yet leave him able to throw quills, however- and I think that would be enough to assist Jet Jaguar in fighting KG. Which would leave Heisei vs. LPG and the MUTO, which... I want to be optimistic and say it would go my way, especially if Jet Jaguar triumphs, frees Jiger, and both come in to help... but would definitely understand if folks felt otherwise.

Adding in the gyaos to the mix, though... unless we're being very optimistic about how many foes Jiger could sharp-shoot in confinement, that probably going to be enough to overwhelm my guys, even at the most optimistic appraisal.

I'm giving this to MuchWowSuchGodzilla. His team has the numbers and strength to be able to overcome Zarm's team. Jiger won't last long, though Jet Jaguar could take on Kumonga and King Ghidorah pretty well, unless KG is able to hit him with his energy orb. Monsterverse Godzilla and MUTO can handle Heisei Godzilla pretty well, long enough for the rest of MWSG's team to come in and help take Heisei Goji down, though I could see Legendarygoji and Femuto managing to beat Heisei on their own.

If Sanda hadn’t been barred for this round, this would be really difficult for me to decide. Even now it’s not easy.

But as it stands... Legendary Godzilla and the Muto will most likely both gun for Heisei Godzilla, putting him at a disadvantage. He’ll be getting tossed around a lot, and with it being a two on one, he can’t really pin one down with his beams for long. Heisei Godzilla could maybe stone wall his way to victory against those two, but it’s nothing i’d be willing to say for sure.

Jet Jaguar and Jiger vs Kumonga and King Ghidorah is tough. The Gyaos will be flying around, and while they admittedly won’t be doing too much actual damage to either JJ or Jiger, they’ll still be providing a decent distraction. I could easily see them letting Kumonga web up whoever she guns for.

The thing is, i’m hesitant to really debate anything with 2004 Kumonga, because we have no real idea of how powerful she is. We know her webbing is decent, but what about literally every other aspect of her? My assumption is to go with the general baseline of most Final Wars kaiju, which is to say not exactly super powerful. I think she could handle Jiger well enough, especially with the Gyaos running interference, but she’s not getting out of that unscathed.

Against Jet Jaguar, on the other hand, I see things going much poorer for her. That, and Jet Jaguar could easily deal with the Gyaos if he gets and opportunity. However, King Ghidorah muddles things. If he fights Jiger, Jiger’s getting decimated, but not without getting a few needles in. If King Ghidorah fights Jet Jaguar, I see it being rather even, with JJ having the advantage in general melee, but King Ghidorah’s gravity bolts and electric bites giving him a small advantage.

Ultimately, i’m leaning MWSG, but not enough to give a vote.

Kumonga is a non-factor, so I'll pretend he doesn't exist.

I am actually favoring Zarm here, BARELY, because Heisei Godzilla is a borderline perpetual energy machine. NO ONE on MWSG's team has what it takes to put him down. KG isn't doing much to him, the gyaos certainly aren't, the female MUTO is going to HATE getting blown back by a nuclear pulse if she tries to come in to punch him, and LPG can definitely beat him up and throw him around... but Heisei has the better regen and the better energy reserves. If everyone ganged up on him, they could put him out of commision.

But the problem is, Jet Jaguar is there to help, and JJ is a decent fighter in his own right, not quite Showa Godzilla levels of competent, but pretty solid. While Jiger exists to die horribly, JJ can at least be enough of a nuisance, even being capable of taking on the Female Muto or KG 1v1, to let Heisei Godzilla do his thing.

I can see myself winning this. G'2014 and The MUTO will most likely go for Heisei. I cannot see Heisei winning this matchup. Both the MUTO and G'14 have the strength advantage, and both of them working together will most likely be able to deal with Godzilla eventually. The pulse will be devestating IF 1. he uses it in time and 2. he uses it multiple times. I think both of the 2014 movie monsters would be able to survive a pulse and continue fighting, albeit injured but still the numbers advantage should help them out.

Jiger and JJ against KG and Kumonga is pretty close, but the Gyaos is the deal breaker for me. Kumonga can web either opponent fairly well, especially Jiger. The Gyaos might be able to impale JJ or Jiger after a few shots but I can see them dying shortly after, and even if they cant they can provide a decent enough distraction for KG to ultimately win. Jiger dies pretty easily. Jet Jaguar will most definitely have the upper hand against KG, but after Jiger gets disposed of it becomes a 2v1 which he wont be able to win. That leaves a roughed up G'14 and FeMUTO, Kumonga and an injured KG, and the numbers advantage is too much here for Heisei to overcome. I/MWSG win here.

To be fair- and I don't figure on changing your mind here, but this is for the undecided- I don't think there's any question of Heisei using the pulse in time. He's uses it pretty consistently, especially when he's on the ropes. And since we have discussed in the previous match that there is no specified limit to just being used once, I think both conditions that you suggest will be satisfied.

In terms of the Gyaos, I wanted to clarify- are these three of the little guys like they were trying to trap in the stadium? (Because I suspect Jiger's quills/heat ray or Godzilla's ray/pulse would instant-kill them). Or are these larger main-title-bout Gyaos? Do they have sonic rays?

In terms of Kumonga- I do want to throw out there that its webbing efficacy is kind of an unknown factor. I mean, Godzilla was able to grab the main strand and then release it without and hint of adherence... though that may just be the main trunk. Either way, the orderly net-pattern certainly leaves plenty of holes that attacks can be launched through if Jiger is webbed- and its heat-ray's ability to dissolve things (a known weakness of the previous Kumonga's webbing) may allow him to free himself or an ally pretty immediately. In addition, arguably, the flight capabilities of both JJ and Jiger would allow them to remain active- tackling, if not freeing themselves- even if webbed; they could still take off and lob themselves at opponents, unless the webs adhere them to the ground as well. Jiger also has the ability to pull other combatants in toward it, which would theoretically allow it to down and dispatch the Gyoas fairly quickly, or even get them ensnared within the web if using this ability while entangled. And let's not forget that, if free and capable, it can still implant the disabling-pain-eventually-deadly eggs in nearly any opponent.

In theory, if webbed, Jiger is still in the fight and able to continue attacking (especially as the 'net' being draped over the large dorsal fin should give plenty of room to maneuver in there), and quite possibly able to free itself almost immediately- and if facing KG, can not only impale him, but possibly one-shot with the tail-stinger. In some ways, facing Kumonga might be the best thing for it- saving Jiger from any punishing physical attacks, leaving her to sharpshoot/free herself, potentially neutralize Kumonga and the Gyaos, and and then move on to help against KG; whereas starting with KG will involve first shooting him full of holes and then, if he continues to attack, taking some damage but disabling with the stinger... then turn to dealing with the Gyaos and Kumonga. Either way, it's kind of win-win... the more I think about it, the more it's going to be my drafts helping out Heisei against the 2014 duo, not the duo receiving reinforcements.

Thinking this through, I'm actually pretty confident now that I can pull off a win- Jiger is just too well-suited to escaping/functioning despite Kumonga's webs, and reeling in + dispatching the Gyoas. (Unless they are the full-grown, final-stage adults with sonic cutters- in which case she may only get one or two before being dispatched by them).

The only thing that gives me pause any longer is the MUTO's potential ability to feed off of Heisei's radiation... but I don't think we got any indication that this will increase its durability in battle? Not sure. But, if I'm right, and Heisei gets reinforcements, I think even that potential advantage would be negated.

I’m operating under the assumption that these are the little Gyaos, because Super Gyaos is strong enough to be an actual draft kaiju. Having three of those at once, in addition to the rest of the team, would be overpowered.

I also doubt Muto feeding on Heisei’s radiation is a concern at all. Radiation is just food for them, it doesn’t heal them or anything along those lines. Godzilla’s radiation might actually help you against the Muto, because she would just blindly charge Heisei Godzilla to get at that radiation, most likely setting her up to get blasted quickly.

Jet Jaguar should be able to distract whoever he fights long enough for Heisei Godzilla to take out the other opponents. I’m agreeing with Giratina that Kumonga and Jiger aren’t important factors, so I honestly think their fight’s result doesn’t matter.

I’m going to vote for Zarm

The Gyaos are indeed small.

Voting for Zarm. This is a really tough fight, but I think Heisei can hold off Legendary and the MUTO for long enough for his allies to defeat their opponents and help out.

GodzillavsRayquaza wrote: Jet Jaguar should be able to distract whoever he fights long enough for Heisei Godzilla to take out the other opponents.
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I dont think either of these would happen. If KG gets his heads onto Jet Jaguar, then its essentially over with. We also have Kumonga that would be able to web him AND the Gyaos causing a distraction. Unless JJ can multitask like a pro, there is absolutely no way he wins in any scenario. Jiger is a non factor here, and I can see her being dispacted by Kumonga/KG.

Zarm wrote: In terms of Kumonga- I do want to throw out there that its webbing efficacy is kind of an unknown factor. I mean, Godzilla was able to grab the main strand and then release it without and hint of adherence... though that may just be the main trunk. Either way, the orderly net-pattern certainly leaves plenty of holes that attacks can be launched through if Jiger is webbed- and its heat-ray's ability to dissolve things (a known weakness of the previous Kumonga's webbing) may allow him to free himself or an ally pretty immediately. In addition, arguably, the flight capabilities of both JJ and Jiger would allow them to remain active- tackling, if not freeing themselves- even if webbed; they could still take off and lob themselves at opponents, unless the webs adhere them to the ground as well. Jiger also has the ability to pull other combatants in toward it, which would theoretically allow it to down and dispatch the Gyoas fairly quickly, or even get them ensnared within the web if using this ability while entangled. And let's not forget that, if free and capable, it can still implant the disabling-pain-eventually-deadly eggs in nearly any opponent. [

This is a good point, but at the rate that Kumonga was webbing FWGoji, I dont see Jiger or JJ being able to maneuver out of that quickly enough to stop from being subdued by my other monsters. The only monster capable of throwing Kumonga with such force is Heisei, and be will be getting mauled by G14 and FeMUTO. Jiger wont last long enough to implant eggs into anyone IMO, he can bring the Gyaos closer but that could be the downfall of him, as he kills the Gyaos Kumonga webs him fairly easy and finishes him there. That leaves a 2v1 against JJ, and I cannot see him winning that.

Zarm wrote: In theory, if webbed, Jiger is still in the fight and able to continue attacking (especially as the 'net' being draped over the large dorsal fin should give plenty of room to maneuver in there), and quite possibly able to free itself almost immediately- and if facing KG, can not only impale him, but possibly one-shot with the tail-stinger. In some ways, facing Kumonga might be the best thing for it- saving Jiger from any punishing physical attacks, leaving her to sharpshoot/free herself, potentially neutralize Kumonga and the Gyaos, and and then move on to help against KG; whereas starting with KG will involve first shooting him full of holes and then, if he continues to attack, taking some damage but disabling with the stinger... then turn to dealing with the Gyaos and Kumonga. Either way, it's kind of win-win... the more I think about it, the more it's going to be my drafts helping out Heisei against the 2014 duo, not the duo receiving reinforcements.[

Kumonga is pretty mobile, and I can see him hopping away from Jiger to the point where Jiger is unable to reach him. Jiger wont be able to fly with all the webbing, and if he still somehow flies Kumonga has good jumping ability and can possibly web him there. KG can also dispose of Jiger with a quick eletric bite, albeit getting impaled in the process but could still fight on with a disadvantage against JJ, but then Kumonga is there to seal the deal aswell.


The only outcome of this battle I can see is Heisei eventually being overwhelmed and killed, I think the Gyaos play a huge role in distraction here, enough to give me the win.

MuchWowSuchGodzilla wrote:The only monster capable of throwing Kumonga with such force is Heisei, and be will be getting mauled by G14 and FeMUTO. Jiger wont last long enough to implant eggs into anyone IMO, he can bring the Gyaos closer but that could be the downfall of him, as he kills the Gyaos Kumonga webs him fairly easy and finishes him there. That leaves a 2v1 against JJ, and I cannot see him winning that.

How is it that Kumonga would finish her, given the apparent lack of the Showa version's stinger? And again, if the webbing can be instantly burned away, even that advantage is negated. And if Kumonga closes to point-black range, that puts her close to Jiger's disabling stinger.

I know Jiger gets a lot of crap for fragility (a little more than is warranted, I feel)- but she is also a ranged-weapons platform (both quills and a vaporizing heat ray), plows through battleships with ease, an up-close finisher that can pretty-much-immediately disable a biological component, and flight capabilities. She takes shots from tanks and jets' missiles unscathed. She's also body-slammed from a great altitude several times and is relatively unaffected. She uses her telekinetic power on debris in the area a lot like Darth Vader in Empire Strikes Back; tactically, she uses it to plug the source of incoming attacks (like Gamera's mouth). (Admittedly, even if she disables one from KG that way, there are still two more- but it demonstrates a tactical fighting style and use of telekinesis to block or disable incoming attacks.) I think she deserves a little more credit for her combat possibilities and durability.

MuchWowSuchGodzilla wrote:Kumonga is pretty mobile, and I can see him hopping away from Jiger to the point where Jiger is unable to reach him.

With the tail, presumably- but there are still those kaiju-skewering quills and the city-block-vaporizing heat-ray that can attack at range. I mean, Kumonga could leap out of range of those, too- but that would basically put him out of the fight and allow Jiger to deal with other threats until Kumonga returns (at which point, we're right back to the start).

MuchWowSuchGodzilla wrote:KG can also dispose of Jiger with a quick electric bite, albeit getting impaled in the process but could still fight on with a disadvantage against JJ

If we're talking tail-stinger, the pain appears to be pretty much instantly-disabling; the disadvantage would be significant.

Also, based on the notes above, I would dispute the notion that this bit would take Jiger out. Again- slammed through battleships, dropped from a great height multiple times and shrugged it off; being stabbed in the forehead by a statue made specifically to oppose her, after a viscous brawl, being dropped from great heights repeatedly, and set on fire, did her in eventually- but it's not as if she goes down easily, quickly, or after a few token hits. Sure, it's at Gamera-universe scale, so there's still some reduction there... but enough to render her a non-=entity or one-shotted? Not from the fights I was seeing.

MWSG, what can Kumonga do besides hop around and fire harmless webbing at foes? What exactly can FW Kumonga do to ANY of the opposition that can actually harm them?Is there some secret FW footage of Kumonga doing DAMAGE to Godzilla that I'm not aware of? Last I checked, FW Kumonga has ZERO offensive prowess, and the webbing... did jack all to Godzilla.

FW Kumonga is a non factor, and considering how fragile and easily disposed the other canon fodder kaiju in FW are, I think it's a safe bet to assume FW Kumonga won't be surviving most, if any attacks thrown the spider's way. Anything more devolves into baseless speculation on the character. All we know is that FW Kumonga is just an extra body to take up a hit or two, and then die horribly.

If we want to be generous, we can note that while Ebirah and Kamacuras were downscaled to Gamera-monster levels or below, and Hedorah apparently depowered from his normal state, and Zilla vulnerable to a single atomic breath (not necessarily denoting his weakness, possibly just Godzilla's strength), Godzilla did not choose to dispatch Kumonga with a physical attack or atomic breath. Now, realistically, this was probably just to make an interesting montage (though, the fact that he could easily avoid the web is noteworthy for other foes in this match; the agile ones like Jet Jaguar almost certainly could)... but it could be argued that the choice of a different tactic indicates a knowledge that FW Kumonga is a little more durable than other FW monsters and couldn't be put down as immediately or easily.

IF you want to stretch the extrapolation... which, with FW Kumonga, is really about all we have to go on. So I could see it being less fragile than we might assume- but still lacking serious offensive potential (so, Jiger vs. FW Kumonga- the glass canon vs. the pin-cushion? ).

Thank you Zarm! Jiger is being horribly downplayed here. Even if Kumonga webbed her, she can still fly! Or at least hover! Ram into Kumonga and either impale the arachnid with quills or the tail ovipositor, rendering Kumonga Useless.

I'm actually surprised Heisei is losing favor here. I mean we're talking about a monster who has been impaled.and shrugged it off rather quickly, was able to compete with beings larger than himself and sometimes even stronger than himself, needing aid but always prevailing. MUTO won't fair better than Rodan or King Ghidorah, one blast of the atomic breath and MUTO is most likely in critical condition. Legendary is the main threat here, sure he can shove Heisei down, but again, beam spamming, and Heisei no doubt has the more concussive blast as opposed to the flame thrower like breath of Legendary that only pushed the MUTO. Legendary could put up a good fight, but is still outclassed by the Heisei Godzilla.

The Gyaos can easily be dispatched by Jiger who can either reel them in with her suction feet and crush them, or just impale them with quills. Same for Jet Jaguar, he could swat them out of the sky or crush them.

JJ won't last against Ghidorah, with the electric bites and coiling necks, it just seems like too much for Jet Jaguar, unless he shrinks and distracts Ghidorah long enough for either Godzilla or Jiger to help him.

I just gotta give it to Zarm!