KBT Round 3: SenseiTeriyakiV vs BlueGojira

Kiryu2012 · Post by **Kiryu2012** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:41 pm

SenseiTeriyakiV
King Kong (1962)
GINO
Legendary King Kong

vs

BlueGojira
Kiryu Saga Godzilla
Xenomorph Warrior
Showa Gamera

Arena: Redwood Forest

Rules: All combatants are scaled to around the human size range.

Sensei, please specify whether or not '62 Kong is electrically charged and we may begin voting.

RamshackleRanger · Post by **RamshackleRanger** » Tue May 09, 2017 5:42 am

He is charged.

MuchWowSuchGodzilla · Post by **MuchWowSuchGodzilla** » Tue May 09, 2017 5:52 am

This is a very interesting fight. While my gut is saying go with BlueGojira, I still feel like either Kong could manhandle everyone on the field except for maybe the Xenomorph. Im going to wait and see but im leaning Sensei as of now.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Tue May 09, 2017 6:52 am

This is... tough. The xenomorph will be death to any of its opponents. He almost certainly needs to engage GINO, as he's the only one that can handle that agility. I think both Kongs are the superior of their opponents in melee and strength, though. Ranged weaponry give Gamera and Godzilla a distonctive advantage... but if they can't shoot down their opponents and keep.them down before they close range, both are in trouble.

Here's how I see it. GINO and Xeno colide in a flurry of frenzied, biting attacks. Kongs are clever enough to use tree cover to close the distance- maybe even drop from above. The environment favors them.

If the xenomorph could defeat and come to assist a teammate immediately, it's all over... but I don't think an inner-jaws-through-the-head is gonna work on GINO, and a tail-impailment may take a while to land. Heck, GINO is good at using cover; he might just be able to lunge out, snap at the xenomorph with those jaws unexpectedly... and die horribly as the explosion of acid blood kills them both.

IF both Kongs had taken beam/flamethrower hits on approach, that I think it least Legendary would be on the ropes and this would be a much clearer fight- but the environment generally prevents that unless both Kongs are stupid at using terrain, which Kong generally isn't.

If Godzilla is able to handle the pummeling - that he might- and get a shot off on Legendary Kong full in the face, and keep capitalizing on that, I think Legendary will go down. But Gamera's tactics are not favorable, and electrically charged, Kong will make mincemeat of him.

This is the crisis point. If Xeno finishes GINO (though not in time to save Gamera, either way) while Legendary is roasted, and Xeno and (bruised) Godzilla engage charged Kong. Xeno will probably die (may even explode when touched by the lightning), but Kiryu will be able to finish the acid-burned Kong.

If GINO pulls a mutually-assured-destruction, though, and it's pumelled Godzilla vs. Electric Kong? Then Kong takes the win.

I feel like a traitor to all that I stand for, but... I think that tuna-head could do it. I can't see the alien killing him in any way decisive or instantaneous enough to keep GINO from a fatal chomp in the process.

Sorry, Bluegojira; the environment robbed you. In an open field, your team would decimate- but SenseiTeriyakiV's team is composed entirely of Kaiju home know how to use terrain and cover to their advantage.

BlueGojira · Post by **BlueGojira** » Tue May 09, 2017 9:10 am

Zarm wrote: Sorry, Bluegojira; the environment robbed you. In an open field, your team would decimate- but SenseiTeriyakiV's team is composed entirely of Kaiju home know how to use terrain and cover to their advantage.

Wait, but aren't they human scaled? That means neither Kongs could use trees, and GINO most likely wouldn't be able to hide as well as he could when normal sized. Also, sorry if I seem stubborn. It's just that I'm not in favor of loosing this time because three strikes, and I'm out.

Even though I might as well be dead already, thank you, Zarm. I really appreciate the support given and how you acknowledge both sides.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Tue May 09, 2017 9:19 am

I suppose it depends on whether these are giant redwoods or not; but I would assume both Kongs can climb, brachiate from branches, etc.; Legendary certainly showed off his parkour skills.

Admittedly, GINO's ambush-bite scenario is less likely if the redwoods aren't giant (large enough to hide him completely)... and the xenomorph could also pull an unexpected approach from above or somesuch with its ability to wall-run.

Honestly, I think it all comes down to GINO, and whether there's a plausible way for the xenomorph to kill him quickly enough that he couldn't lash back in his death throes. And as little as I respect GINO, I do think he's well-enough built to not be instantly killed by any of the xenomorph's typical attacks, at least in any scenario I can envision.

Then again, there may be other foe combinations I hadn't considered, etc., so I will certainly keep an eye on the arguments, and am open to revising my vote.

RamshackleRanger · Post by **RamshackleRanger** » Tue May 09, 2017 9:28 am

BlueGojira wrote:
Zarm wrote: Sorry, Bluegojira; the environment robbed you. In an open field, your team would decimate- but SenseiTeriyakiV's team is composed entirely of Kaiju home know how to use terrain and cover to their advantage.
Wait, but aren't they human scaled? That means neither Kongs could use trees, and GINO most likely wouldn't be able to hide as well as he could when normal sized. Also, sorry if I seem stubborn. It's just that I'm not in favor of loosing this time because three strikes, and I'm out.

Even though I might as well be dead already, thank you, Zarm. I really appreciate the support given and how you acknowledge both sides.

I think he means Kong could climb the trees, and gino could take cover just as well if not better.

I'm voting SenseiTeriyakiv. My team is just way too agile and suited to this kind of environment.

Post by **GodzillavsRayquaza** » Tue May 09, 2017 4:09 pm

A 403 error keeps occurring when I hit submit, so I'll try shortening everything. KiryuGoji's beam is crazy strong, could knock down any trees it hits, a good charge of it could one shot whoever it hits. In everything else he's terrible. Sensei has a good team, speed and strength in abundance. Xenomorph can climb the trees to, in melee he can mess up his enemy, his blood will cripple or kill whoever kills him. Showa Gamera isn't very good, fire breath will hurt, might start forest fire. I'm leaning Blue, not leaning enough to vote yet.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Tue May 09, 2017 4:17 pm

Kiryu2012, are these giant redwoods, or just average sized?

Kiryu2012 · Post by **Kiryu2012** » Tue May 09, 2017 5:04 pm

Zarm wrote:Kiryu2012, are these giant redwoods, or just average sized?

Average sized.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Tue May 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Thanks.

Well, okay, that does impair GINO's hiding a bit, and allow Godzilla to topple trees. Interesting...

RamshackleRanger · Post by **RamshackleRanger** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:23 am

Damn. Okay, if these are regular size redwood, I'm not so sure my team will stomp. However, as gino is human sized, I think he can still do well at hiding and his burrowing will allow him to set up ambushes and such. I think he can still take the xeno while showa Kong pummels kiryugoji. I also think legendary Kong will be able to outclass gamera in hand to hand, and the fire won't be doing much to him.

BlueGojira · Post by **BlueGojira** » Wed May 10, 2017 6:01 am

SenseiTeriyakiV wrote:Damn. Okay, if these are regular size redwood, I'm not so sure my team will stomp. However, as gino is human sized, I think he can still do well at hiding and his burrowing will allow him to set up ambushes and such. I think he can still take the xeno while showa Kong pummels kiryugoji. I also think legendary Kong will be able to outclass gamera in hand to hand, and the fire won't be doing much to him.

To quote Who Will Know (tragedy); "I may yet have the slighest chaanncee.."

Another thing I'd like to point out would be that with the lone exception of Gamera, Zilla's ambushing won't do much. The Xenomorph is extremely agile and was shown to have heightened senses, and the KiryuGoji detected the silent Mothra from behind without even looking. Showa Kong also failed to tank blasts of the Showa Godzilla's atomic beam, so as soon as he gets hit from the KiryuGoji's beam (see Ray's reply) it's game over. Gamera might loose to Legendary Kong, but with the Xenomorph most likely avoiding any ambush and taking out GINO, and KiryuGoji still surviving, I feel like my team might come out alive.

EDIT: Legendary Kong also failed to withstand regular napalm fire, so Godzilla or Gamera's blasts would most likely cripple him.
EDIT #2: Another thing from Ray, Gamera's flames or Godzilla's beam might start a forest fire which Showa Kong retreated from.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Wed May 10, 2017 6:10 am

Huh. Not a Kong-combo I'd expected. But yeah- no matter what happens, I see GINO and Xeno as a probable MAD; the acid blood will finish GINO in the event of a fatal bite; a fatal bite can still be delivered in the event of a fatal stab. No matter who strikes first, they cancel each-other out, more-or-less. And the Kongs retain enough of an advantage in the trees to advance to melee range without taking the hits that could prove harmful (I mean, fire did mess Legendary up fairly well even if it didn't put him down; a flamethrower would be no fun)... and since melee is their advantage range, I do think they can do enough damage to still put their foes down before Gamera or Godzilla can manage to use those beams to do up-close damage. If they pick the less-favorable partners as per my scenario, one Kong might go down; the way SenseiTeryaki has it, both might actually survive and team up on Godzilla. Either way, I don't think the reduction of tree-scale changes the results.

Added in 3 minutes 28 seconds:

BlueGojira wrote: Another thing I'd like to point out would be that with the lone exception of Gamera, Zilla's ambushing won't do much. The Xenomorph is extremely agile and was shown to have heightened senses, and the KiryuGoji detected the silent Mothra from behind without even looking. Showa Kong also failed to tank blasts of the Showa Godzilla's atomic beam, so as soon as he gets hit from the KiryuGoji's beam (see Ray's reply) it's game over. Gamera might loose to Legendary Kong, but with the Xenomorph most likely avoiding any ambush and taking out GINO, and KiryuGoji still surviving, I feel like my team might come out alive.

EDIT: Legendary Kong also failed to withstand regular napalm fire, so Godzilla or Gamera's blasts would most likely cripple him.

The big trick, for me, is that I can't see a way in which the Xenomorph could kill Zilla, by necessity up-close-and-personal- that wouldn't leave him enough death-throes time to fatally strike back. I don't think either can kill the other without exposing themselves to death.

And as I recall, charged Showa Kong did tank the atomic breath (just as Legendary Kong did make it through the fire hurt, but intact; it was follow-up gunfire that brought him down, wasn't it?)- and neither of the Gs have proved particularly adept at using that weapon at point-blank range while they're being physically beaten. If I am remembering any of those points, then my position may bear reconsidering, as those are the foundations my reasoning is built upon.

BlueGojira · Post by **BlueGojira** » Wed May 10, 2017 6:18 am

Zarm wrote:Huh. Not a Kong-combo I'd expected. But yeah- no matter what happens, I see GINO and Xeno as a probable MAD; the acid blood will finish GINO in the event of a fatal bite; a fatal bite can still be delivered in the event of a fatal stab. No matter who strikes first, they cancel each-other out, more-or-less. And the Kongs retain enough of an advantage in the trees to advance to melee range without taking the hits that could prove harmful (I mean, fire did mess Legendary up fairly well even if it didn't put him down; a flamethrower would be no fun)... and since melee is their advantage range, I do think they can do enough damage to still put their foes down before Gamera or Godzilla can manage to use those beams to do up-close damage. If they pick the less-favorable partners as per my scenario, one Kong might go down; the way SenseiTeryaki has it, both might actually survive and team up on Godzilla. Either way, I don't think the reduction of tree-scale changes the results.

Added in 3 minutes 28 seconds:
BlueGojira wrote: Another thing I'd like to point out would be that with the lone exception of Gamera, Zilla's ambushing won't do much. The Xenomorph is extremely agile and was shown to have heightened senses, and the KiryuGoji detected the silent Mothra from behind without even looking. Showa Kong also failed to tank blasts of the Showa Godzilla's atomic beam, so as soon as he gets hit from the KiryuGoji's beam (see Ray's reply) it's game over. Gamera might loose to Legendary Kong, but with the Xenomorph most likely avoiding any ambush and taking out GINO, and KiryuGoji still surviving, I feel like my team might come out alive.

EDIT: Legendary Kong also failed to withstand regular napalm fire, so Godzilla or Gamera's blasts would most likely cripple him.
The big trick, for me, is that I can't see a way in which the Xenomorph could kill Zilla, by necessity up-close-and-personal- that wouldn't leave him enough death-throes time to fatally strike back. I don't think either can kill the other without exposing themselves to death.

And as I recall, charged Showa Kong did tank the atomic breath (just as Legendary Kong did make it through the fire hurt, but intact; it was follow-up gunfire that brought him down, wasn't it?)- and neither of the Gs have proved particularly adept at using that weapon at point-blank range while they're being physically beaten. If I am remembering any of those points, then my position may bear reconsidering, as those are the foundations my reasoning is built upon.

Helicopter gunfire that was from built in machine guns, which fire more rounds much faster didn't do anything to LPG Kong, so I figured a few rifle bullets wouldn't hurt him either. Also, in Godzilla Against MG, the Kiryu Godzilla actually has used the beam when he was fighting Kiryu up close. Gamera also used it against Barugon after he was frozen alive. Both of them are at least decently skilled at firing point-blank range attacks.

EDIT: Remember the scene from KKvG where the electric-charged Kong and Godzilla were near the ocean and the giant house (forget the name)? When Godzilla fired his atomic beam, Kong physically backed away and winced.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:04 am

Well, that definitely complicates things. The bullets is a good point for LPG; clearly, it exacerbated things, but based on past precedent, they didn't account for that much of his incapacity. we do also have to consider his pre-existing injuries (he definitely took some hurt, if nothing else from the propellers). But it does seem to suggest that the napalm- and not a concentrated stream, just a burning environment- accounted for a significant percentage of his incapacity.

Reviewing Showa Kong, he does flinch back from the fireball of atomic breath explosions- but he's never actually hit by the ray. He also smolders when struck by the burning tree, so the one definite takeaway is: fire no good.

As for the ray, contrary to what I've heard around the forums, there's really no precedent one way or another. Based on that, I don't think there's a particular grounding for a claim of increased invulnerability against the ray.

All right, this is becoming a mess. I just don't know what to believe anymore! So, I will try and resolve this rationally... with combinations. Here's how I see any individual bout going, based on updated evidence:

Spoiler:

Based on that...
*GINO's only victory is Gamera.
*ShowaK and LPK's only victory is the Xenomorph, and at a heavy cost.

Based on that, ONE of the kaiju on that team is against an unfavorable adversary is going down from the initial match.

Leaving out double-teams in the first round (because that's just frying my brain, that gives us six combos of opponents.

Spoiler:

Based on that, BlueGojira does take the vast majority of the scenarios; while a path to victory for SenseiTeriyakiV still exists, statistically it is less likely. I guess I'd have to switch my vote to BlueGojira.

That said, my head I swimming in combos, so if I accidentally had two teammates fight each-other or something, let me know. I had this entire post written out before I realized I'd transposed GINO and Xenomorph on the wrong teams (incidentally, BlueGorjira had only 2 victories there, with the other 4 being potential mutually-assured-destructions that had the potential to give SenseiTeryakiV 2 and Bluegojira another 1)... so if I missed anything in fixing my figures to reflect the correct teams, blame it on my burnt-out brain and let me know.

Post by **GodzillavsRayquaza** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:51 am

BlueGojira for the reasons I stated in my first post.

RamshackleRanger · Post by **RamshackleRanger** » Wed May 10, 2017 10:37 am

BlueGojira wrote:
EDIT: Legendary Kong also failed to withstand regular napalm fire, so Godzilla or Gamera's blasts would most likely cripple him..

No, the reason Kong was toppled after the napalm fire is because he was inhaling the carbon monoxide. He fainted because there was no oxygen in the air.

Zarm · Post by **Zarm** » Wed May 10, 2017 10:39 am

That is plausible- but he was also downed and seemingly helpless (but conscious, suggesting that it wasn't just oxygen deprivation or seminconsciousness keeping him down, but injury) for several minutes.

MuchWowSuchGodzilla · Post by **MuchWowSuchGodzilla** » Fri May 12, 2017 5:34 am

Does Sensei have the means to take down KiryuGoji?KiryuGoji has some mean regeneration,and almost everyone on Senseis team gets 1 or 2 shotted by Godzillas beam.

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KBT Round 3: SenseiTeriyakiV vs BlueGojira

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