The Reiwa Era and Godzilla Movie Grouping

[omgitsgodzilla]

Toho considers The Return of Godzilla (1984) to be the start of the Heisei series. This is passed down and noted in merchandise, from books to video games and in both English and Japanese.

Books and merchandise from when, though? That's my thing about the "Heisei series" name in general -- it would've made sense during that series as there were only two series and two eras to account for, but nowadays it doesn't make much sense, and it seems like at the very least most Japanese fans have moved on to new terms that do.

[Arbok]

Books and merchandise from when, though?

Just off the top of my head, you have the シン・ゴジラ Walker : 怪獣王新たなる伝説 book that was released for Godzilla Resurgence (2016) that notes the 1980's/1990's Godzilla as Heisei in Japanese. Going a little bit further back, you also have the Bandai Godzilla video game from 2014 which saw a global release, so its use in English as well:

"The sixteenth film, “The Return of Godzilla” (1984), was a sequel to the very first film in 1954, consequently resetting the continuity of the previous Showa series releases up until that point. Thus began what would be called the Heisei series, culminating in the epic 22nd film, “Godzilla vs. Destoroyah” (1995)."
https://www.tohokingdom.com/vg/godzilla ... ml#gheisei

That's my thing about the "Heisei series" name in general -- it would've made sense during that series as there were only two series and two eras to account for, but nowadays it doesn't make much sense, and it seems like at the very least most Japanese fans have moved on to new terms that do.

It's probably very confusing for new Japanese fans, although that hasn't caused Toho to revise what they refer to the series as.

[tbeasley]

I thought Psycho Solider over at the MZ boards had a nice summation of all this -

Current reports suggest the next era of Japan will be called Reiwa. So for us, that's one piece of the puzzle. Now it's partly a matter of deciding how to apply the label to Godzilla films. Will it apply only to films produced by Toho after this year? Is there any sense in bringing Shin Godzilla under the label, or will it belong to an interstitial period alongside the anime trilogy? Or is it too early to say, until or unless we see Toho's future productions?

I'm most sympathetic to the "wait and see" position. We know in retrospect that G84 shares continuity with Biollante and future films, thus it's considered a Heisei film and not a Showa one. On the other hand, though the gap between Destoroyah and G2K was shorter, G2K broke with the previous films' continuity as well as its visual styles, while setting a few standards for Megaguirus. Hence the Millennium era.

It usually has taken more than one film to establish the feel of a Godzilla era, so I'm content to let history play itself out. If Toho's next Godzilla films resemble Shin Godzilla thematically or stylistically, it'll be easy to decide that Shin Godzilla is a Reiwa film. If not, I'm sure there will be much to debate.

(I haven't brought the Legendary films into my thoughts because I consider them distinct from the Japanese productions. Likewise, I don't consider G98 a Heisei or Millennium film. I'm also unsure about the anime trilogy's place in all of this.)

http://www.scifijapan.com/forum/viewtop ... 54#p505536

[Manuelito Canelito]

... Wasn't it that the Heisei/Millenium separation exists because of G98?

[Arbok]

On this note of where Godzilla Resurgence falls in terms of a series...

I also agree with the wait and see approach, in particular to see if Toho decides to give it a name. They might not due to the Legendary Pictures agreement, as Toho is limited in what they can do with the character from a film perspective. That's forced them to "innovate" and try using the character in an Anime setting.

Until they do, I'll continue to use the official names: Showa Series, Heisei Series, Millennium Series, MonsterVerse... and then just note "Shin" in quotes as an anomaly.

... Wasn't it that the Heisei/Millenium separation exists because of G98?

Yes/no.

Part of the reason the Heisei Series ended, besides staff stating they "ran out of ideas" (har har, since they jumped into making Mothra movies immediately), was to make way for the TriStar Godzilla film. It could then be argued that the Millennium series was born in response to Godzilla 1998 and trying to make a more faithful representation... which could be true going from quotes, but could also just as easily have been Toho trying to capitalize on the attention the movie created with audiences (the TriStar movie performed at a level in-between Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II and Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla) similar to as they did with Godzilla Resurgence for the 2014 Godzilla film.

[GodzillaRangerPrime]

What if we just referred to the era from 2014-2020 as the “Legendary Resurgence Era”
xD

Does the Anime trilogy even count in the movie line up?

[MandaSaurus]

Crown Prince Naruhito is only 59. Barring anything unforeseen, the Reiwa Era should last for quite some time...

[tbeasley]

Don't know if it means much but G98 and the anime films are left out of his big 65th anniversary standee for KOTM...

[Arbok]

Don't know if it means much but G98 and the anime films are left out of his big 65th anniversary standee for KOTM.

First off, that's a great stand.

Second off, ouch for the anime films. Wouldn't be surprised if once the dust settles on the current merchandise blitz, which is already starting to happen, they are going to get swept under the rug from a merchandise perspective.

[_JNavs_]

I'm glad America has finally earned the respect of Toho and now earned a spot on the wall of classics along with the best of the best.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Don't know if it means much but G98 and the anime films are left out of his big 65th anniversary standee for KOTM.

First off, that's a great stand.

Second off, ouch for the anime films. Wouldn't be surprised if once the dust settles on the current merchandise blitz, which is already starting to happen, they are going to get swept under the rug from a merchandise perspective.

I think it's moreso because they aren't live action.

[GodzillaRangerPrime]

Don't know if it means much but G98 and the anime films are left out of his big 65th anniversary standee for KOTM.

First off, that's a great stand.

Second off, ouch for the anime films. Wouldn't be surprised if once the dust settles on the current merchandise blitz, which is already starting to happen, they are going to get swept under the rug from a merchandise perspective.

I think it's moreso because they aren't live action.

And that they aren’t that good and performed pretty badly lol, which is a shame, since Godzilla in the anime format has a lot of potential.

[tbeasley]

^ From another thread...

Well, nothing aside from the Japanese box office, that is...

The three films were limited releases and it was known beforehand they would premiere on Netflix just three months later. Don't think it has any bearing on judging the anime's success lol

This. The anime trilogy was not the box office disaster people seem to think it was. Disappointments at the worst. Unlike other Godzilla movies, they weren't general releases and only one of them received anything resembling normal advertisement. The decision to put them into theaters was a way to make some extra money on the Netflix deal. The costs were covered before the public even saw them. And, unless I'm mistaken, Planet of the Monsters did quite well in the home video market. I'm not sure about the other two. Also, it's worth noting that the first three Heisei films were box office disappointments as well.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Omg toho is rereleasing Godzilla blu rays and they grouped the anime trilogy and g14 apart from the other films DOES THIS MEAN THEY HATE THEM FOR THEIR UNDERWHELMING BOX OFFICE PERFORMANCES?!?!

[xolta]

I wonder if we will see more of shin gojira in this Reiwa era?

[omgitsgodzilla]

Yeah, I don't know why people need to project their opinions on the anime trilogy onto Toho tbh. Planet Eater isn't even out on disc yet. They're still behind the trilogy and trying to sell it. If they do end up being ignored somewhat down the road, it'll be because they're something of a spin-off that was animated by a different studio, not because Toho also sees that they're ObJeCtIvElY bAd

If Toho were in the business of neglecting bad movies instead of milking whatever they've got, Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II wouldn't have been seen since 1993

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Yeah, I don't know why people need to project their opinions on the anime trilogy onto Toho tbh. Planet Eater isn't even out on disc yet. They're still behind the trilogy and trying to sell it. If they do end up being ignored somewhat down the road, it'll be because they're something of a spin-off that was animated by a different studio, not because Toho also sees that they're ObJeCtIvElY bAd

If Toho were in the business of neglecting bad movies instead of milking whatever they've got, Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II wouldn't have been seen since 1993

Well said on so many levels.

This is the second time this week I've been dragged into a "discussion" with the anime having a "bad" box office performance.

[Dr. Professor]

If Toho were in the business of neglecting bad movies instead of milking whatever they've got, Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II wouldn't have been seen since 1993

Seriously, they probably just wanted to include the live action films only. I've seen some fans say they don't count the anime films simply because they're animated. It's probably that same logic.

[GodzillaBurgh]

The proper naming of these eras is just as a headache as the Kingdom Hearts timeline.

[Arbok]

I've seen it mentioned a few times, but the Godzilla Anime trilogy did receive a general release in Japan. All three of them got the same distribution: 158 theaters when they opened. For Japan, that is not limited release. For example, the recent Osomatsu-san the Movie opened in 126 theaters and the also recent Ultraman R/B The Movie: Select! The Crystal of Bond opened in 105 theaters, and for reference both finished in the top 10 when released.

If we want to talk about limited release, you have stuff like Sicario: Day of the Soldado in Japan which saw a 57 theater release, although still opened in the top 10.

The Godzilla anime trilogy got less than what Toho normally allots for a Godzilla film (Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla got 267 theaters, Godzilla: Tokyo SOS got 298 theaters, Godzilla Final Wars got 285 theaters and Godzilla Resurgence got a colossal 441 theaters), but less is not the same as a limited release.

If they do end up being ignored somewhat down the road, it'll be because they're something of a spin-off that was animated by a different studio, not because Toho also sees that they're ObJeCtIvElY bAd

Outside of the TriStar Godzilla, and that's as much to do with it being a US production than anything, Toho is far more concerned with performance than quality... they are a business after all. Not only that, but these are Godzilla films. Regardless of how overlooked they will be or not, just by that virtue it's sure to be referenced more in the future by Toho than other kaiju entries, like Space Amoeba, as the Godzilla name raises the bankability of it. That said, if a toy company goes to license something ten years from now, they have finite options if they want to do something around Godzilla and in those scenarios it will probably be increasingly overlooked.