How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, the Godzilla anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Living Corpse
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Living Corpse »

1. More hand drawn animation like the gif.

2. More eye catching colors like the gif. Kaiju beams would look amazing.

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3. I like Lovecraft, and I like Godzilla, but pulling the two off together can be hard and I feel the anime trilogy dropped the ball there, so as much as I hate to say it play it safe. Just make it a traditional Godzilla movie but in anime form.

4. Actually give the characters development. Don't let one MC Ahab hug the spotlight.

5. Don't make two movies ahead of time before the first one is out when you don't even know how well the first one is gonna perform, skreeonking wait before deciding to make sequels.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by _JNavs_ »

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:
third one be Planet Eater with a more active and present group of kaiju.
Can ya elaborate on this?
Sure,

I felt Godzilla and Ghidorah (as well as the .5 second cameo from Mothra's shadow) did little to nothing exciting during the entire film, I also feel like there were so many kaiju introduced during the initial big apocalypse, yet there's not one single returning monster in any of these 3 films, so the universe feels barren, bland, boring and wasted. I would've liked to see passing cameos, or even small subplots with other surviving monsters, mainly the B-C Listers who would've realistically survived, Manda, Varan, Anguirus, Zilla etc etc. For the anime in general, I would've liked a more active animation style, for example, faster, more agile Godzilla and co.

With that in mind and set up in the first 2 films, I would've liked a DAM styled Planet Eater, with more things actually going on during each act.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Destoroyah of Worlds »

Honestly? I thought the people talked too damn much.

When you have to have horrible exposition over what should be enjoyable monster action, you're doing something wrong.

I would have made whoever wrote those scripts read a book about screenplays and the rule of "Show, Don't Tell." And had them do massive rewrites. Because it was written like a comic book. It reads like a comic book. There's constant unnecessary exposition.
Last edited by Destoroyah of Worlds on Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Living Corpse »

A proper fight with Ghidorah once his link that made him invulnerable was broken would have been nice. Seriously he goes from the strongest thing in the multi-verse to a piece of paper.

You can tell me Void Ghidorah kills off entire multi-verses but I was more impressed by Monsterverse King Ghidorah's character than any feats we're told about with Anime Ghidorah. I don't know how they did it, but they found a way to make anime Ghidorah so powerful it's boring and stupid so I don't care anymore and then so pathetically weak I feel robbed of fight when he get's massacred.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

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Living Corpse wrote:A proper fight with Ghidorah once his link that made him invulnerable was broken would have been nice. Seriously he goes from the strongest thing in the multi-verse to a piece of paper..
That's the exact thing that feels missing from most Ghidorah fights. Ghidorah starts off stronger, something happens and bam, he goes down like a chump. Sure you could say the same thing happened with MV Ghidorah but the thing that ended up killing him was BURNING GODZILLA. (And even then he has a dormant severed head left which might regenerate later)

Anime Ghidorah was hyped out as a planet devouring eldritch abomination that makes Godzilla seem like nothing. Then he ends up being so dependent on the Exif's summoning ritual and helpless without it that it feels like he's a pawn of the Exif rather than the other way around.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Living Corpse »

GuardianGhido wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:A proper fight with Ghidorah once his link that made him invulnerable was broken would have been nice. Seriously he goes from the strongest thing in the multi-verse to a piece of paper..
That's the exact thing that feels missing from most Ghidorah fights. Ghidorah starts off stronger, something happens and bam, he goes down like a chump. Sure you could say the same thing happened with MV Ghidorah but the thing that ended up killing him was BURNING GODZILLA. (And even then he has a dormant severed head left which might regenerate later)

Anime Ghidorah was hyped out as a planet devouring eldritch abomination that makes Godzilla seem like nothing. Then he ends up being so dependent on the Exif's summoning ritual and helpless without it that it feels like he's a pawn of the Exif rather than the other way around.
I'd argue Heisei King Ghidorah did pretty well when his mind control broke, strangling Godzilla, if Godzilla didn't have a Nuclear Pulse he'd be dead. Showa Ghidorah was also willing to help Gigan keep fighting once they got over their confusion.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by GuardianGhido »

Living Corpse wrote:
GuardianGhido wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:A proper fight with Ghidorah once his link that made him invulnerable was broken would have been nice. Seriously he goes from the strongest thing in the multi-verse to a piece of paper..
That's the exact thing that feels missing from most Ghidorah fights. Ghidorah starts off stronger, something happens and bam, he goes down like a chump. Sure you could say the same thing happened with MV Ghidorah but the thing that ended up killing him was BURNING GODZILLA. (And even then he has a dormant severed head left which might regenerate later)

Anime Ghidorah was hyped out as a planet devouring eldritch abomination that makes Godzilla seem like nothing. Then he ends up being so dependent on the Exif's summoning ritual and helpless without it that it feels like he's a pawn of the Exif rather than the other way around.
I'd argue Heisei King Ghidorah did pretty well when his mind control broke, strangling Godzilla, if Godzilla didn't have a Nuclear Pulse he'd be dead. Showa Ghidorah was also willing to help Gigan keep fighting once they got over their confusion.
Yeah despite being a pathetic weakling that Godzilla could beat on his own without any trouble, Heisei actually put up a good fight compared to some Ghidorah's. Showa was a powerhouse most of the time despite the mind control and usually needed more than one opponent in order to truly defeat him, and even then he just ran away before being actually badly hurt quite a few times.
Last edited by GuardianGhido on Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Living Corpse »

So frustrating cause Anime Ghidorah had a cool build up with his shadow consuming people's shadows, killing them. And he was not only an alien from space but from another reality as well.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

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Living Corpse wrote:So frustrating cause Anime Ghidorah had a cool build up with his shadow consuming people's shadows, killing them. And he was not only an alien from space but from another reality as well.
Origins and background wise he might be my absolute favorite Ghidorah. He's not only alien to our world, but alien to our very universe. And they kept his malevolent destroyer role too. They even gave him a death cult that worships him (something I really like Ghidorah to have) and carries out his wishes. But then he ends up barely doing anything at all and gets curbstomped after Metphies is dealt with. They even did the same with MG, imagine if the city's structures split off and merged into a mech 5 times taller than Godzilla, but no we just got a buncha turrets that were blown to bits easily. Even Earth, being the biggest Godzilla of them all is almost inanimate in his movements (fitting with his plant origins). The anime just follows a huge pattern of building up things with cool origins and backgrounds then just giving us garbage letdowns. If it followed up on any of the stuff it promiesd, it could have been awesome, espeically with the medium being anime which could have made the monsters incredibly dynamic...instead we got CGI blobs that move around even less than the suits did. What a disappointment.
Last edited by GuardianGhido on Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by mikelcho »

GuardianGhido wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:So frustrating cause Anime Ghidorah had a cool build up with his shadow consuming people's shadows, killing them. And he was not only an alien from space but from another reality as well.
Origins and background wise he might be my absolute favorite Ghidorah. He's not only alien to our world, but alien to our very universe. And they kept his malevolent destroyer role too. They even gave him a death cult that worships him (something I really like Ghidorah to have) and carries out his wishes. But then he ends up barely doing anything at all and gets curbstomped after Metphies is dealt with. They even did the same with MG, imagine if the city's structures split off and merged into a mech 5 times taller than Godzilla, but no we just got a buncha turrets that were blown to bits easily. Even Earth, being the biggest Godzilla of them all is almost inanimate in his movements (fitting with his plant origins). The anime just follows a huge pattern of building up things with cool origins and backgrounds then just giving us garbage letdowns. If it followed up on any of the stuff it promiesd, it could have been awesome, espeically with the medium being anime which could have made the monsters incredibly dynamic...instead we got CGI blobs that move around even less than the suits did. What a disappointment.
This mention of Earth Godzilla's movements reminded me of the Swamp Thing back in the day, particularly Swamp Thing #11 where he found out that, if he stood in one spot for so long, he'd begin to take root just like a plant. Then, years later (our time) in Swamp Thing (vol. 2) #37, he found out that he could let his body die in one place and re-grow it somewhere else.

That would've been a great power for this Godzilla, wouldn't it?

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Manuelito Canelito »

Having watched Made In Abyss, I can't help but feel that this is how it should've looked.

Kinema Citrus with some of Ghibli's talent at command truly made the lush vegetation and alien like environments of the Abyss come to life, and I definitely feel something like this could've really improved the anime's dull looking scenarios, not to mention their incredibly ability to convey size and scale would especially good for a kaiju anime like this one.

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And the creature design and animation is also splendid. All the monsters of the Abyss are incredibly drawn and animated, and thanks to Ko Yashinari's help in it, the creature's movements and place in the world truly feel alive. And well, while this is not just animation but another thing entirely, but if the Planet of the Monsters had a bestiary as rich and as deep as the one in Made In Abyss, one filled with predator-prey relationships, parasitism, symbiotic relationships etc etc would've truly helped it feel like a Planet Of Monsters

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Really, all of this wouldn't really improve the story (although from that some of Made In Abyss would also help a lot) but at least I feel this would make the anime have the kind of style and animation that I feel it should have had
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

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Okay....if this is a 'change it however you want from the ground up'....well then, I would go for 2D animation, and frankly....something closer to what the anime prequel novels were would be more of the direction I would go. Maybe make it an anime series instead of a film series. Use it as an opportunity to try and cram every monster possible in there, just make it a huge ode to the legacy of all of the films. Again, basically, what the anime prequel novels did.

If we are taking about taking the anime trilogy as it is an improving it....honestly, I don't think there is enough real estate for 3 feature length films. I either would have done it as an animated mini-series or would have shredded a lot of the extraneous plot and material and made it 2 films.

Or....if it must be 3, all of them could have seriously been leaned up to about 75-80 minutes flat, WITH credits.

There is simply a LOT of padding of material, and the films are just devoid of life in a lot of ways. I don't need these to be comedies, but some sense of personality and variety in the tone beyond the constant dour, grim monologues would be nice, just to liven up the proceedings. Make the characters a little more likeable.

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

Planet of the Monsters is a misleading title because the only monsters on the planet are Godzilla Earth, Godzilla Filius and the Servum, the latter of whom play no importance in the actual film. Give us more monsters on this "monster planet", damn it. I want herds of Anguirus being hunted by Godzilla Filius. I want flocks of Rodan in the sky, roosting high up in the mountains where they're safe from Godzilla and sustaining themselves on Servum. And go further with the idea of Godzilla's DNA affecting the entire ecosystem of the planet. Have more mutant Godzilla offshoots instead of just creatures that look like road-killed Druddigons. I honestly think POM was a decent set-up film. Just throw in more monsters to create a more believable hellish ecosystem (a la Skull Island in the 2005 film).

City on the Edge of Battle needs some more action because this film is one hell of a slog. Instead of some boring story about the Bilusaludo turning themselves into nanometal, just bring back skreeonking Mechagodzilla like we all wanted. Instead of turning itself into a city for some inexplicable reason, have the dormant Mechagodzilla have slowly grown in proportion to become a 1000-foot titan that can take on Godzilla Earth. Haruo and the Bilusaludo use Mechagodzilla to fight Godzilla and they actually win. They topple Godzilla Earth, leaving him down for the count in a cliffhanger that is the reverse of the previous film's. The Houtua stuff I actually like, that can pretty much be left alone, especially since it will actually play an important role in my version of the third movie; you know, unlike in the shitty trilogy we got, where the Houtua don't play much of a role in the plot despite getting lots of screentime.

The Planet Eater has the same basic premise; the Exif reveal themselves as the true villains and call in Ghidorah to consume Earth. But there's a better reason for why they call in Ghidorah at this exact moment: Godzilla's seemingly been killed, leaving Earth defenseless to Ghidorah's onslaught. Ghidorah arrives and actually makes a full physical appearance instead of appearing as three golden noodles coming out of black holes. After Ghidorah destroys the Atrium, Mechagodzilla is deployed against him, but is completely destroyed along with the Bilusaludo, who sacrifice themselves heroically instead of also turning out be bad guys in typical Godzilla alien fashion. Ghidorah then begins consuming the Anguirus, Rodan and Godzilla offshoots. A reluctant Haruo decides Godzilla is the only one who can stop Ghidorah, and convinces the Houtua to awaken Mothra, who makes more than just a cameo. Mothra is the one who resurrects Godzilla, allowing him to destroy Ghidorah. The dark ending of Haruo committing suicide by Godzilla can be the same, because it's one of the few parts of The Planet Eater I actually was impressed by.

There we go, same basic trilogy but with the kaiju actually doing things, and a few more kaiju making appearances. Really wouldn't have been that hard, and would have made the anime trilogy much more entertaining, as well as giving it wider appeal.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by darkcancer »

The only anime movie I would change drastically is the first with a more detailed look at what was glossed over at the beginning.

Planet of the Monsters: I would have used the plot from the prequel novel Monster Apocalypse to show how Earth became overrun (focusing on some of the more interesting monster appearances since there would be too much scene jumping if each one was shown) and ended it with the spaceport scene of a young Haruo leaving Earth.

City on the Edge of Battle: I would have begun it with the scene of the Aratrum reaching Tau-e and the whole return to earth part. I would have left out the entire Filius/Servum portion and had Godzilla Earth awaken when the crew landed after discovering MechaGodzilla City from orbit. The final change would be instead of the Vulture getting upgraded, MechaGodzilla CIty would have rebuild MechaGodzilla which would activate after Godzilla destroyed most of the city. MechaGodzilla would have come close to killing Godzilla and Haruo would decide to destroy it (same way as in the actual movie with the nanometal plot) however instead of shooting the control room, he would have used a weapon he ripped off MechaGodzilla with his vulture (the Neutron Cannon or Hyper Lance) to destroy its head.

Planet Eater: When Ghidorah is no longer connected to Metphies and takes physical form, I would have had the three wormholes that his heads came out of merge into one and the entire body appear, then the neck length would shrink down along with the body to a size similar to Godzilla Earth. This would then be followed by a more standard kaiju fight with some beams and a decent amount of melee combat. The movie would have ended the same, however I would add a scene where the Mothra egg starts to crack in a spot where the Houtua can't see.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Cryptid_Liker »

Overall Trilogy: Make Haruo less of an angry nut and scrap the bomb debacle from the opening scene. Also, go with an SSSS Gridman approach for animation by using 2D for the characters, 3D for the kaiju and mecha, and both for the landscapes.

Planet of the Monsters: Include more of the kaiju that they mentioned in the novels. I'd also set the final battle in the moss city shown in the halfway point of the final film.

City on the Edge of Battle: I'd have Mechagodzilla... you know, ACTUALLY SHOW UP AS MECHAGODZILLA! I'd keep the Scarlet form in as that was honestly the high point of that otherwise boring movie.

Planet Eater: I'll keep Planet Eater basically the same until the climax where Godzilla will pull the now tangible Ghidorah out from his own dimension and fight him head-on. Ghidorah will start blowing chunks off of his opponent's body using his Gravity Beams until Mothra (who actually appears physically instead of being just a hallucination) appears physically after helping Haruo. This event begins a 3-way battle. When Mothra is knocked down by Gravity Beams and Godzilla starts losing again, his body heats up for the third time. The otherworldly hydra will try to deliver the coup de grace but Godzilla grabs ahold of him and uses his Spiral Atomic Breath. Ghidorah gets vaporized and the final battle of the trilogy is over. I'd include a scene in the montage where the Houtua and humans work together to defend a boat from an aquatic Servum. After the integration montage happens, the rest of the film goes on as normal.

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

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POTM: Make the entire opening Hauro boarding the ship and Godzilla attacking, increasing it to a full on battle where Godzilla utterly devastates the defense before the ships take off and seemingly glares at Haruo as he leaves (setting up a delibrate parllel with the end of the film).

We get the background information but displayed in a MUCH more interesting way then stills and grainy news reports (maybe animating them?). Haruo is already in the brig, with the elder exploding and the history of how much the Aratum suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks as dialogue. Show, don't tell; I know, but it has no real buisness here. Keep most of the stuff leading to the offical Earth voyage the same but with one exception: we offically introduce Yuko. She's still Haruo's childhood friend and sorta love but she's treated as much gruffer, because in this version, she's aged up to being like 3 years older then him. So she has experience with the kaiju attacks and humanity's failure, making her the cynic to Haruo's techincal optimsim in overthrowing Godzilla.

Instead of genius millitary shooting man, Haruo's real appeal is his optimism. He is a beliver in humanity, their power and so on. He's still a arrogant shitheel but his main thing is insipring people to suicide themselves into Godzilla, not making them do it and them listening because he did good on space SATS or something.

Godzilla's Earth is mostly the same but with more Servum species appearing. This is 100% a world of monsters. Also, to further set up the "man's arrogance caused this" theme. it's shown destroying parts of the forest to make the base camp is the reason the Servum attack intially.

Rest goes as normal.

COTEB: The Houta's village is explictly not Godzilla. Not just some caves, but an entire area like old Earth, safe from Godzilla's influence. They're also more on the fence about killing Godzilla, saying "The Mountain is dangerous, but wars with gods do not let us win" or something like that.

Yuko, continuing on the bitter cynic thing, instead becomes feverently a believer in the nanometal, telling Haruo it's the best solution, up to the point she implictly begins to consider converting when the humans discover it, but ends up half robotcized anyway against her will.

When Mechagodzilla City is activated, one of the Bilusaldo report the head still has some limited AI. This would come back in the finale, when during Mulu suddenly says "finally, our great plan will be completed" leading to a monologue that reveals Mechagodzilla planned this, and purposefully destroyed itself to build Mechagodzilla City, as "99.99% of all calculations confirm, willing or forced conversion is the only way Godzilla will be defeated and humanity can retake the planet". Thus expanding Mechagodzilla's role, revealing the true threat of the nanometal, and all while keeping the city.

PE: Yuko lives. She and Haruo are objectively not on good terms? She's in a deep depression of her fate and the fact that despite the horrors, she still sees destroying Mechagodzilla City as throwing out humanity's last hope. As such, when Metiphes comes a-knocking about some space spaghetii, she's very interested.......

Instead of weird akward sex excuse, Maina and Miana tell Haruo the story of Mothra, and how she taught them how survival is winning against great terror (though Haruo considers it nothing more then a myth). They attempt to show him this though some psychic stuff but when they do, he (and us the audience) only see a black void and something golden lash out at the screen. This leads Maina to go and confront Metiphes and leads to Miana and Haruo to bond in NON intimate ways, though it's implied to be romantic.

Ghidorah and Godzilla fight, though it's slightly more intense (Ghidorah physically like snapping Godzilla's arm back when he lashes out and so on) while Hauro goes to confront Metiphes, he finds him praising with his eye amulet.....and Yuko, who is held down, crying with two amulets in her eyes.

We get the trippy memory scene in which Yuko counteracts Haruo by having fully submitted into the "everything's dying, let Ghidorah take it so we may at least go doing something good" mentality. Eventually, the Houta are able to break though and get to Haruo as he observes the nuke once again.....

He finds himself seeing his parents as a child as they tell him his name means hope and spring, before he finds himself in a garden. He looks around at flowers before notcing himself and Yuko as children playing with candles, a single butterfly dancing above their heads. Slowly, it flies off, Haruo watching as slowly, more and more appear, an entire swarm forming around themselves. Haruo covers his face as their wings become a galestorm, the vauge image of them colascing into one massive shape appearing as the sky lightens.

Ghidorah screeches and lets go of Godzilla, cackling in anger, his hold on Godzilla broken for a moment.

Martin (he's not helping the Houta with their thing, that was just weird and threw a bunch of technobabble into a spiritual scene.): "What? something made it break it's hold?"

a private tells Martin: "Sir, the radio!"

"Eh, what is it?"

"all channels. There's....there's singing."

With Mothra ever so slightly breaking the hold, Haruo runs up to a barely concious Yuko, screaming her at to remember those days. How despite the wars, the monsters, they held on hope. They didn't let the darkness take them. As long as there's a light, there's hope. Yuko slowly, shakingly moves her hand near her face, clearly trying to take the amulets out. Metiphes intervenes but Haruo attacks him, a short tussle, that ends with him destroying his eye just as Yuko screams and gouges into her eyes.

Same ending as before. Godzilla drives off Ghidorah, Metiphes and Yuko die (with Haruo mourning his childhood friend instead of, you know, that one dude he knew for a bit who was actually a skreeonking monster. He does mourn him, just not as much), and just as Haruo is sobbing, Godzilla appears, his head piercing the cloud.

He and Haruo lock eyes on more time. Instead of screaming, crying, anything, Haruo just slowly bows his head.

"no more hatred. Just let me know. Will we live or will we die?"

Godzilla watches him for a second.

Cut to the other human's outpost. Godzilla's blast cuts though the sky.

Haruo still sits on the mountain. The beam dissipates. Godzilla gives a final stink eye then disappears in the fog.

Credits and the end credit scene but with a old Hauro and Miana watching children do effigys to Yuko, who has now become a legendary figure to fight against darkness.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Angilasman »

Biggest problem was pacing. The molasses-slow pace felt especially egregious in the third one. If it had been three hour-long episodes instead of feature length movies perhaps the fat being trimmed would make it stronger.

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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Chrispy_G »

Angilasman wrote:Biggest problem was pacing. The molasses-slow pace felt especially egregious in the third one. If it had been three hour-long episodes instead of feature length movies perhaps the fat being trimmed would make it stronger.
Absolutely. There are a lot of ways to re-imagine this series as something leaner. A TV special with three 1 hour-long episodes. Like it could have been a "three night event". Maybe a pair of 90-100 minute movies instead of a trilogy. Or even if each entry in the trilogy was a super-lean 75-80 minutes.

It just feels absolutely like it was pitched as some mini-series or something, 10 20-minute episodes could maybe work well.

No matter what it was pitched as, and how it was fast-tracked and finalized....it just 100% feels like it was greenlit off of a very rough first draft, pitched or even being greenlit and developed as a mini-series or limited series and re-jiggered to be a theatrical series on very short notice and suffered from it.

I feel like it was almost certainly going to be a series, THEN when Shin was a massive hit, Toho was like "Nah, these are going to THEATERS!" and it really disrupted the flow of creative development and production.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by shadowgigan »

I kind of want an anime that is totally bonkers ridiculous, I want Godzilla to talk and wield a katana or something. Perhaps even DBZ style fights somehow.
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Re: How Would You Improve the Anime Saga?

Post by Cryptid_Liker »

shadowgigan wrote:I kind of want an anime that is totally bonkers ridiculous, I want Godzilla to talk and wield a katana or something. Perhaps even DBZ style fights somehow.
So, basically you want Monster Warrior Godzilla?

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