Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Maritonic » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:00 pm

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:How can ‘84 be considered any less of a remake.


The theme is basically "the cold war sucks :(" and it's left at that,


Yeah basically this. I love it tho
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby cloverfan98 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Wasn't G84 a direct sequel to the 54 film? Its been a while since I've seen it.

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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby kamilleblu » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:36 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
kamilleblu wrote:What other nation was testing nuclear weapons in that region of the world at the time?


France, according to a certain movie. :D

France did. French Polynesian nuclear tests in the 60s. That's what the 98 movie referred to.

True. But I was only counting the tests that happened before the release of Godzilla (1954).

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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby LegendZilla » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:50 am

KaijuCanuck wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:
Yeah, it's distracting for us but bottom line I think they had Japanese audiences in mind with the production, and Japanese audiences probably didn't really notice.


That would've worked 20+ years ago when they never anticipated an English-speaking audience at all. Unfortunately we live in a day and age in which every movie or TV show regardless of what country it gets made in is bound to be seen around the world in a short amount of time.


True, but they still have to keep a primary audience in mind. For example, British tv in recent years has become extremely popular in the United States, but those shows, I would argue, aren't bending over backwards to explain the differences of Britain to US audiences - those differences remain to be taken for granted because those shows are still made with a British audience in mind. Just because you are exporting to new markets does not mean you don't give primary service to the one where the majority of your profit is still to come. Shin Godzilla was a huge, mainstream hit in Japan and while yes, it was screened in the West, the business it did was still comparatively light because the audience here is still pretty niche. They simply did not have to worry about losing a Western audience because of one actress' delivery, they knew those fans were pretty much going to come anyways.


That’s quite the length you took to justify it.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby KaijuCanuck » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:52 am

LegendZilla wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:
That would've worked 20+ years ago when they never anticipated an English-speaking audience at all. Unfortunately we live in a day and age in which every movie or TV show regardless of what country it gets made in is bound to be seen around the world in a short amount of time.


True, but they still have to keep a primary audience in mind. For example, British tv in recent years has become extremely popular in the United States, but those shows, I would argue, aren't bending over backwards to explain the differences of Britain to US audiences - those differences remain to be taken for granted because those shows are still made with a British audience in mind. Just because you are exporting to new markets does not mean you don't give primary service to the one where the majority of your profit is still to come. Shin Godzilla was a huge, mainstream hit in Japan and while yes, it was screened in the West, the business it did was still comparatively light because the audience here is still pretty niche. They simply did not have to worry about losing a Western audience because of one actress' delivery, they knew those fans were pretty much going to come anyways.


That’s quite the length you took to justify it.


Well I may have been a little long-winded there, but I still think it's true. Bottom line, the English market for Shin was just still not big enough, and too niche, to cater to it. The same number of people were going to go see that movie regardless of whether or not they got the English right.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby eabaker » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:31 pm

LegendZilla wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:
That would've worked 20+ years ago when they never anticipated an English-speaking audience at all. Unfortunately we live in a day and age in which every movie or TV show regardless of what country it gets made in is bound to be seen around the world in a short amount of time.


True, but they still have to keep a primary audience in mind. For example, British tv in recent years has become extremely popular in the United States, but those shows, I would argue, aren't bending over backwards to explain the differences of Britain to US audiences - those differences remain to be taken for granted because those shows are still made with a British audience in mind. Just because you are exporting to new markets does not mean you don't give primary service to the one where the majority of your profit is still to come. Shin Godzilla was a huge, mainstream hit in Japan and while yes, it was screened in the West, the business it did was still comparatively light because the audience here is still pretty niche. They simply did not have to worry about losing a Western audience because of one actress' delivery, they knew those fans were pretty much going to come anyways.


That’s quite the length you took to justify it.


Expressing his point thoroughly is not a strike against his argument.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Zarm » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:55 pm

I mean, there's not bending over backwards to explain, and not getting a detail about a foreign culture right/having verisimilitude. Some British TV does indeed have terrible American accents that have existed nowhere in nature or history (the hybrid British-Texan twangs in Doctor Who's O.K. Corral episode are a hilarious travesty for which all involved should feel simultaneous shame and pride for having brought into the world); but, generally, whether it's awareness of foreign markets or the simple desire to be accurate, they tend to work to be accurate to the culture and dialect they're portraying nowadays, because there's no real excuse to, even in a domestic-first market. It's a fair ding to recognize hideously-inaccurate dialect work as an actual flaw in a work; I don't think it's dismissed because the home audience can't tell the difference. (And I'm sure there are plenty of foreign-language speakers in U.S. productions that suffer from the same thing which we aren't aware of; that doesn't mean they aren't still flaws in the production).

I mean, I love Jurassic Park; but I've been to San Jose, and that scene with Dennis Nedry at the diner looks nothing like San Jose. And that's legitimate sloppy filmmaking. It's a negative point against the film, and it doesn't cease to be so because a majority of Americans would be ignorant of the geography; it's still lazy filmmaking. That doesn't mean it's a fatal flaw; it doesn't ruin my enjoyment (though for a native of San Jose, it might be a bit more distracting). But a thing doesn't have to be a film-ruiner to be a negative; it just has to be a negative.

Likewise- Anne Patterson is supposed to be a second-generation native English speaker that sounds nothing like a second-generation native english speaker, in a film surrounded by actual native English speakers with a difference that would be noticable, I would think, even to an audience that doesn't speak the language. Regardless of whether you consider it a fatal flaw or not, it is a definite failure of verisimilitude; a failure to portray even remotely accurately what it claims to be portraying. The level of familiarity that a native Japanese-speaking audience member has with that failing does not alter it in the slightest; it only affects how significant a flaw that issue would appear to that audience member. It remains a failure of sloppy filmmaking either way; only it's significance changes. And with this being a subjective thread from the perspective of primarily English-speaking audience members for whom that flaw is of greater significance, it is an entirely legitimate (and potentially significant) flaw in the film, and I don't think the recognition of the Japanese audience either invalidates that, or excuses the laziness. Clearly, they had access to English-speaking actors, and I sincerely doubt that there are no actresses in Japan that don't speak more fluently. Presumably, they wanted star-power over accuracy because they thought that would benefit the film; fair enough. That compromise and its consequence are in no way negated because they chose to prioritize marquee value; if anything, that makes it potentially worse, as it is a flaw they chose to intentionally incorporate for the sake of money. Which certainly may make it more understandable- but again, not any less of a negative, especially for an audience member for whom it was distracting.

And yes- that's quite a length I took to condemn it. ;)
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby KaijuCanuck » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Zarm wrote: And yes- that's quite a length I took to condemn it. ;)


And we all love you for it. :D

Yeah, I mean I don’t disagree with any of that really, it’s defintiely still a flaw - I was more just making an economic argument I guess. I don’t think Toho had much incentive to focus on getting that aspect right, I think for them it was more important to hire an actress who was recognizable to Japanese audiences. And, if hypothetically they did have to choose between one or the other, they probably did make the right choice.

But it definitely stands out to me, and I don’t enjoy it. It’s even worse than when you watch the Japanese versions of the heisei series and some of the G-Force pilots give orders in English that the actors have clearly only learned phonetically - but at least in that case it made some sense plot wise because the characters were also presumably speaking a second language.

Ah well. I guess my greater point with Patterson is that I understand why it’s there, consider it somewhat inevitable, and because of that it doesn’t limit my enjoyment of the film as much as it could.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:56 pm

What's really jarring is watching the dub. I've quoted "JAS YOO ASS JAPAN SOO... WEEN WEEN" so many times it becomes retrospectively even stranger to hear the dubbed version with the proper accent and pronunciation.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Zarm » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:53 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:snip


I can definitely see that.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Grievous » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:52 am

It won't get a sequel...

Does that count?
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:13 am

Grievous wrote:It won't get a sequel...

Does that count?

No because that’s a positive.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:53 am

I don't even need a sequel since it birthed that one "film school reject" rant about me :lol:
"It wouldn't be a true Godzilla film, if you didn't touch upon those things," says Dougherty. "Otherwise you're just making a big dumb giant monster movie. There has to be a sprinkle of it, otherwise you're not being faithful to the original intent of the series. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not a true Godzilla fan."

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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Grievous » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:00 pm

PitchBlackProgress wrote:
Grievous wrote:It won't get a sequel...

Does that count?

No because that’s a positive.

Well...a positive for you.

I actually thought Shin Gojira was the best Godzilla film
since GMK in 2001...but that's just my own personal
opinion.

I mean Shin Gojira doesn't really need a sequel...and
even if it did get one...how the hell would it even
start?

Gojira "unfreezing" before breaking down/splitting
up into multiple smaller "Humanoid" Gojiras? I mean
I'd like to see that...but I'm sure many other Gojira
fans would.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Never said I didn’t love Shin, Shin is without a doubt the best Godzilla movie we’ve gotten since Biollante and even Biollante had some probs.

I’m just able to realize a sequel would ruin Shin’s message and as it is, it’s perfect.
Shin doesn’t need a sequel, the story ended on a great note, humanity must stay unified forever and deal with Shin’s new elements to further human existence rather than just a single nation, seems like a self contained story to me.
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Grievous » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:52 pm

PitchBlackProgress wrote:Never said I didn’t love Shin, Shin is without a doubt the best Godzilla movie we’ve gotten since Biollante and even Biollante had some probs.

I’m just able to realize a sequel would ruin Shin’s message and as it is, it’s perfect.
Shin doesn’t need a sequel, the story ended on a great note, humanity must stay unified forever and deal with Shin’s new elements to further human existence rather than just a single nation, seems like a self contained story to me.

Well...we basically have the same opinion...

As my original comment about a sequel was
"scraping the barrel" for something negative
to actually say about the film.

Also props for the Biollante love...as I believe
that it is also one of the best of the entire series...
despite being very uneven in places.

In fact Shin & Biollante are very similar in a lot
of ways...
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Gailah 1966 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:07 am

It has no sequel ;)
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby LegendZilla » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:02 pm

^In that case, I'd say for the Monsterverse we should try to get a non-Japanese speaking actor to try and pass for a Japanese character and learn his lines phonetically. If that happens, let's see how Japanese-speaking audiences react.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:09 am

LegendZilla wrote:^In that case, I'd say for the Monsterverse we should try to get a non-Japanese speaking actor to try and pass for a Japanese character and learn his lines phonetically. If that happens, let's see how Japanese-speaking audiences react.

Sounds like a waste of time when they should be focusing on other things.
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Re: Say Something Negative About "Shin Gojira"

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:41 am

lol look at their earlier posts in this thread
"It wouldn't be a true Godzilla film, if you didn't touch upon those things," says Dougherty. "Otherwise you're just making a big dumb giant monster movie. There has to be a sprinkle of it, otherwise you're not being faithful to the original intent of the series. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not a true Godzilla fan."


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