Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

For the discussion of Godzilla Resurgence, the Godzilla anime trilogy and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby kamilleblu » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:15 am

miguelnuva wrote:What Millennium series films were bad other than megagurius and final wars.

2 bad out of 6 total films wasn't that bad.

The Kiryu Duology is pretty mediocre.

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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Zarm » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:47 am

kamilleblu wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:What Millennium series films were bad other than megagurius and final wars.

2 bad out of 6 total films wasn't that bad.

The Kiryu Duology is pretty mediocre.


Or, alternately, one if the best film in the series and the other is as abysmal as Megaguirus if not more so.

...Which, I suppose, averages out to pretty mediocre. But in terms of good films- yeah, I'd put 2000, GMK, and Against Mechagodzilla on the 'good' list, with Final Wars as 'an entertaining curiosity,' if not a good film. Only two films- Megaguirus and Tokyo S.O.S.- were truly terrible in my book, and even they had a few memorable moments (and their share of defenders).


I mean, leaving out the 4-year gap, the Heisei/Millenium era resulted in 11 films done in 1-year increments* over a period of 11 years. Obviously, everyone's enjoyment-count differs, but for me, only three of those films (Mechagodzilla II, Megaguirus, Tokyo S.O.S.) were outright terrible, with another four (vs. Mothra; Battle for Earth, vs. Spacegodzilla,vs. Destroyah, Final Wars) in the not-great-but-still-watchable-for-some-merits category. That still leaves 4 good films (vs. King Ghidorah, Godzilla 2000, GMK, and X Mechagodzilla) made in an 11-year period.

A take-more-time production model would, at best, have to release a film every three years to match that record, and it would:
A. Lack the additional ancillary good moments from other less-great films
B. Take an additional year to rack up the same number of good films
C. Require every film to be a hit, which multiple other every-three-years franchises (Star Trek, Star Wars, various superhero franchises outside the MCU, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc.) have proved unable to sustain for a four year stretch. Heck, the Godzilla franchise has arguably only achieved such a streak itself once, as part of a 6-film arc from vs. Kong to Son of Godzilla, and the majority of those films were created with a 1-year turnaround time.


In short, looking at the statistics**, despite the reputation of the Heisei and Millennium eras, they actually accrue good films (and ancillary memorable moments from less-good films) at a greater overall rate than a more methodical every-few-years approach.*** In order to match it, an every-three-years approach would have to fire on all cylinders in a way that few franchises that have taken them same thing have historically been able to, and will still give us less and take longer. And that's even assuming that the production teams have learned nothing and manage to do no better than latter Heisei/Millennium; if they have learned from the approaches of other franchises like the MCU, they could in theory up those statistics even more. Whereas the take-more-time timetable is already working at maximum capacity just to keep up with the output of Heisei and Millenium at their most lackluster stage.



*2000 had more of a gap, but was rushed into production anyway to respond to 1998. I am counting out 1984 and Biollante for longer pre-production times.

**Again, this is based on the films I think are good/enjoy; if your list varies, the number skew a bit

***Notably, this is also a benefit of suitmation; if Godzilla moves to all-CGI, these turnaround times may increase significantly; otherwise, the films can be turned around fairly quickly, and pre-production is the only thing that really needs to be given the extra time, which multiple teams could definitely accomplish.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby szmigiel » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:18 am

Toho could care less about whether or not a film stands the test of time to be considered a classic. They care if box office numbers are respectable, and they are getting good merchandise deals with each film.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Inferno Rodan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:32 pm

ToxicLove wrote:It says a lot about taste and choice however. Considering neither G14 or K:SI looked good (poor lighting and questionable effects/cinematography).

Did... did you seriously just imply that G14 and KSI don't have better effects than anything Toho has ever done? Because you're delusional if so. Having like triple the production time and like 10x the budget to work with will do that. Also, G14 had objectively some of the best cinematography in the entire damn franchise, so you're wrong there too.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby UltramanGoji » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:36 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:Also, G14 had objectively some of the best cinematography in the entire damn franchise, so you're wrong there too.


That's not something that can be objective, though.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Inferno Rodan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:41 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:That's not something that can be objective, though.

It's as objective as acting or writing. So yes, it absolutely can be objective. Whether or not you care about it is the subjective part.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby eabaker » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:02 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:That's not something that can be objective, though.

It's as objective as acting or writing. So yes, it absolutely can be objective. Whether or not you care about it is the subjective part.


All of those things have subjective and objective components; there is the question of whether or not one likes the approach (subjective) and of how well that approach is accomplished from a technical standpoint (objective).

Much of the photography in K:SI is gorgeous, and technically it's masterfully accomplished. But it's also at times stylized in a way that could be off-putting to some viewers (although I don't think I've seen anyone criticize it). But Larry Fong also shot 300, and the cinematography there - also technically well-accomplished - is considered beautiful by some, hideous by others.

G'14's look is a little bland to many people's eyes; personally, I can only think of a couple of really dynamic compositions, and I don't care much for the color pallet. That's all entirely subjective.

On the other hand, I can think of some compositions is DAM - which is far from one of my favorite Godzilla flicks - that I find far more striking than anything in G'14.
Last edited by eabaker on Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Tohosaurus » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:29 pm

I would really like a series of "crazy" Godzilla movies that are beyond the conventional. They've had plenty of ideas before that'd be great here:

Godzilla vs Baraguirus
Godzilla vs Ghost Godzilla
Godzilla vs SN'd Godzilla
Godzilla vs M
Godzilla vs
Godzilla '2'
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Jomei » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

PitchBlackProgress wrote:Was the term "spinoffs" actually used? It'd be cool to see a spinoff about Shin's form 5, or another classic monster steming from Shin's body... like Ghidorah. :freak:


Like I said, all we have is a paraphrase in Japanese, so we don't have any words from the source.

...but yes, this person described talk of potential Mothra- and King Ghidorah-led "スピンオフ/spinoffs."
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Jatahaxe » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:24 pm

Come the finale of the Godzilla anime trilogy, that could be a telling indicator for the quality of another annual Godzilla era. It's been a while since the franchise did three movies in two years.

At the very least, I anticipate said era producing at the bear minimum one fan favorite like GMK.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby JAGzilla » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:30 pm

I'd say it's too early to be making assumptions about anything yet. We still have no idea what Toho's plan is. We have no idea what directors, writers, and so on will be involved. Will this be a continuation of the Shin storyline? A new series with an ongoing continuity? A series of standalones? And will we be seeing ambitious movies that aim to wow audiences and comment on important issues? Dumb fun popcorn entertainment? Or will the new era be some mismatched hybrid of all of the above? We just don't know, and consequently, there's no point in being pessimistic right off the bat like this.

What we do know: we're getting more Japanese Godzilla. The New Age of Monsters will be rampaging on for many years to come. I say we focus on that and try to maintain some optimism until we get a legitimate reason to worry.

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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby ToxicLove » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:19 pm

Zarm wrote:
I actually liked the cinematography and lighting of G14 a great deal. What issues do you have with it?


Lightning was highly inconsistent: extreme blacks and cancelling of daylight/sunlight/light throughout the entire film to mask what was supposed to be good(?) CGI I assume. I properly calibrated and worked on the projector's luminance for the film screening at my theater, still couldn't make out a damn thing.

Inferno Rodan wrote:Did... did you seriously just imply that G14 and KSI don't have better effects than anything Toho has ever done? Because you're delusional if so. Having like triple the production time and like 10x the budget to work with will do that. Also, G14 had objectively some of the best cinematography in the entire damn franchise, so you're wrong there too.


Where in my post did I state that G14 and KSI didn't have "better" effects than anything Toho has ever done? I would recommend stronger reading and comprehension (not one of your strengths as I recall). I mean, if you like staring at nonexistent, blacked-out images, sure, I guess. G14 sure wowed us with its darkness.
Last edited by ToxicLove on Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Inferno Rodan » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:36 pm

ToxicLove wrote:Where in my post did I state that G14 and KSI didn't have "better" effects than anything Toho has ever done? I would recommend stronger reading and comprehension (not one of your strengths as I recall). I mean, if you like staring at nonexistent, blacked-out images, sure, I guess. G14 sure wowed us with its darkness.

You wrote:It says a lot about taste and choice however. Considering neither G14 or K:SI looked good (poor lighting and questionable effects/cinematography).

If you're accusing the LP movies of having "questionable effects" in comparison to Toho's, that certainly implies you think they are inferior to Toho's. And no, I never said that you stated that. That's literally the reason why I asked the question, and in doing so used the word "imply." The fact that I was asking if you were implying something inherently means that you didn't state it. Because, you know, that's what implying means. It's cute that you're accusing me of having poor reading comprehension, though.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby ToxicLove » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:38 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:If you're accusing the LP movies of having "questionable effects" in comparison to Toho's, that certainly implies you think they are inferior to Toho's. And no, I never said that you stated that. That's literally the reason why I asked the question, and in doing so used the word "imply." The fact that I was asking if you were implying something inherently means that you didn't state it. Because, you know, that's what implying means. It's cute that you're accusing me of having poor reading comprehension, though.


Nowhere did I compare Toho to Legendary, so where you're getting this from is puzzling and concerning. I simply stated that Legendary's output didn't impress me visually at all (I did not draw comparison to Toho in any statement). So yes, your reading comprehension is off if that is what you thought I was implying. Ready to try again?
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Inferno Rodan » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:12 pm

ToxicLove wrote:Nowhere did I compare Toho to Legendary, so where you're getting this from is puzzling and concerning. I simply stated that Legendary's output didn't impress me visually at all (I did not draw comparison to Toho in any statement). So yes, your reading comprehension is off if that is what you thought I was implying. Ready to try again?

So lemme get this straight.

I made the statement that I would prefer poor to average movies that look good (LP) instead of poor to average movies that look bad (Toho).

You responded to this by saying the LP movies didn't look good, citing questionable effects and other things. This is directly stating disagreement with my statement that the LP movies look good in comparison to Toho's, and in doing so implies that you don't think Toho's movies look bad in comparison to LP's.

I responded to this with natural confusion regarding whether you thought Toho's movies did indeed have better effects than those of LP, asking for clarification.

You then responded by saying that you never said they didn't have better effects than Toho's. This means you think that, while you believe the LP movies have "questionable" effects, you think the effects of Toho's movies are... worse than questionable.

Which means you're not disagreeing with me now.

Now, if you were never trying to disagree with me in the first place and simply stating that you didn't think highly of LP's effects, that's not a problem with reading comprehension on my part. It's a problem with not properly following the context of the discussion on your part.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby ToxicLove » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:39 am

Once again, you've missed the point completely. Look back at your original post and the fact that mainly LP was being discussed, not a comparison between them and Toho to which I responded. Not to mention you seem to have a habit or adding words to my statements that I never made. Proving that yes, you DO have a reading comprehension problem when people respond to you.

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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Zarm » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:07 am

Guys, when you have to get into the part that you do a blow-by-blow of explaining how the conversation has gone just because the other person's response seems like such a non-sequitur... you're speaking from such different mindsets, using the same words to mean such different things, that the conversation's going nowhere. Trust the voice of torn-his-own-hair-out experience on that. :)
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Cookson » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:45 am

Yeah, we need to wait and see what Toho has in store. Honestly, a Shin continuation is what I would prefer. Definitely don't want the Millennium style one offs.
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Giratina93 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:27 pm

Okay, let's NOT continue this argument with flame baiting and insults. If you can't speak respectfully to each other, or at least without insults added in, then don't speak at all.

Carry on with Toho's not so brilliant move to drain this cash cow dry until there's nothing but ashes left...
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Re: Toho to go back to one Godzilal film a year after Godzilla vs Kong

Postby Maritonic » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:36 pm

I'm honestly surprised by the negative response to this news. I mean, granted, there are some concerns, but I have to ask do people just not want more Godzilla films? It seems like the response to Legendary's Godzilla is average at best, and the *AVERAGE* response to Shin is not overwhelming. Maybe I'm a bit naive but I'm just happy to see the franchise have some blood back in it's veins.

I, personally, was VERY let down and unhappy with Monster Planet. But I'd still be the first one to buy the blu-ray, buy a figure, and see the sequel because it's Godzilla. And it's new.

So, to say Toho is going to be producing new content, sign me the hell up. Yes, there are concerns, and preferences, and I'm sure there will be some missteps along the way, but I'm still genuinely surprised by this fandom at times because who wouldn't want this?
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