Is Shin Godzilla really the better reboot?

[Cybermat47]

And I'm sorry, but that's not fake news, it is a literal and observable phenomenon. The same way that for many, Attack of the Clones was the best Star Wars film

Get a load of this fake news.

Perhaps people would listen to your points more if you treated them with basic respect?

[Jomei]

And I'm sorry, but that's not fake news, it is a literal and observable phenomenon. The same way that for many, Attack of the Clones was the best Star Wars film

Get a load of this fake news.

Perhaps people would listen to your points more if you treated them with basic respect?

There's nothing respectable about claiming Attack of the Clones was ever widely considered the best Star Wars film.

[Zarm]

And I'm sorry, but that's not fake news, it is a literal and observable phenomenon. The same way that for many, Attack of the Clones was the best Star Wars film

Get a load of this fake news.

Guessing you weren't around in '02, son. AOTC was the bomb. Yoda fought, big tanks shot things and exploded. There was a guy in silver Boba Fett armor, and he actually used the dang jetpack. We all lost our frickin' minds for six months... 'till it came out on video and we realized it had no substance, no repeat value. And then we went through the same cycle again in '05... took us longer to come to our senses that time...

[Jomei]

And I'm sorry, but that's not fake news, it is a literal and observable phenomenon. The same way that for many, Attack of the Clones was the best Star Wars film

Get a load of this fake news.

Guessing you weren't around in '02, son. AOTC was the bomb. Yoda fought, big tanks shot things and exploded. There was a guy in silver Boba Fett armor, and he actually used the dang jetpack. We all lost our frickin' minds for six months... 'till it came out on video and we realized it had no substance, no repeat value. And then we went through the same cycle again in '05... took us longer to come to our senses that time...

Shin's already out on home video. Has been for a while. Got huge ratings on TV last night and was voted top film in the franchise.

You talk about this "new=good" phenomenon as if it's a constant, when none of the Millennium films achieved the level of success and popularity as Shin. None of them ranked top of the franchise or won the Japan Academy Prize. None of them had the deluge of merch and cult obsession with the film that Shin has. The examples could go on and on, but the point is, whatever the future holds, which no one can know for sure, Shin Godzilla has been exceptionally, extraordinarily popular and successful. Dismissing that as merely part of a pattern of preference for new things is intellectually dishonest given all the evidence. No one knows for sure, but all evidence points to Shin continuing to be regarded as a modern classic and fan favorite.

[ToxicLove]

Attack of the Clones was NEVER considered the "bomb" when it was released. It was openly mocked and ridiculed by every sensible person. Star Wars manchildren don't count.

[SonOfGorgo]

What are we even arguing about anymore?

[Dracosaurian]

What are we even arguing about anymore?

Who knows? All I know is that both films succeeded in bringing Godzilla back into the spotlight and that's all that matters imo.

[Jomei]

Shin's #1 ranking by Japanese fans has triggered intense cognitive dissonance in some people, leading them to try to explain away Shin's popularity as merely about newness.

That's right. It has literally sunk to "But does Shin's popularity REALLY mean it's popular?"

[tbeasley]

Not trying to take anything away from Shin, but I think we should keep in mind Toho released a Godzilla/kaiju film every year from 1991 to 2004 and by that time, especially in the wake of G98, audiences were really burnt out by those kind of movies and needed a break. Even if a film like Shin was made in that 99-04 period it would've probably performed similarly to GMK, you know what I mean? I think 10 years after Final Wars and in the wake of a better US adaptation Japanese audiences were really aching for a well-made domestic film and that's what they got.

[Jomei]

I'm amazed how many of you guys are experts in the collective mindset of Japanese moviegoers. Even to the extent you can predict how a movie would have performed if released in a different time period!

[Mac Daddy MM]

Not trying to take anything away from Shin, but I think we should keep in mind Toho released a Godzilla/kaiju film every year from 1991 to 2004 and by that time, especially in the wake of G98, audiences were really burnt out by those kind of movies and needed a break. Even if a film like Shin was made in that 99-04 period it would've probably performed similarly to GMK, you know what I mean? I think 10 years after Final Wars and in the wake of a better US adaptation Japanese audiences were really aching for a well-made domestic film and that's what they got.

Pretty much this. Nobody can deny Shin is a pretty decent work with some amazing scenes. It did come out A LOT better than I was expecting because of Anno's involvement and it does seem Toho managed to keep him on a leash. Maybe not a short enough leash, but at least he wasn't able to turn Goji into John Carpenter's The Thing like he seems to have wanted. But yeah, it's great to see Godzilla back in the public eye. It's great to see a bunch of new merchandise coming out (for Shin and other Godzilla incarnations) and to even see one entry in the movie gain a major (Japanese) award (still would like to know what the competition was, however).

The blatant amount of Shin humping, defending and hyping does give me some tremendous flashbacks to the GMK and GFW days of old. Almost like déjà vu. I'm sure if a few people were just a bit younger, we'd even be seeing the classic "I'm making a fan film and it's going to be JUST LIKE SHIN GODZILLA!!!"

[TheSecondComing]

ShinGoji: Success in Japan.
LegendaryGoji: Success worldwide.

I only know enough about merch sales to say that ShinGoji sold the fewest VHS tapes in Godzilla history.

MM, the films Shin defeated for Best Picture are called
Rage (in an amusing coincidence, starring Ken Watanabe): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4384088/
What a Wonderful Family!: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4065842/
Her Love Boils Bathwater: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4778500/
64, Part 1: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4471630/

Full list of results from last years's Awards of the Japanese Academy:
http://www.imdb.com/event/ev0000372/

[ToxicLove]

So now calling a good film good is considered "humping".

Some people should consider leaving for "good" again.

[Jomei]

Pretty soon he'll be saying Russians hacked the Godzilla election. Anything to explain Shin's wins away or distract with low-quality bait.

[Gawdziller1954]

Pretty soon he'll be saying Russians hacked the Godzilla election. Anything to explain Shin's wins away or distract with low-quality bait.

Lol, this reminds me of a 300 long commetn chain argument I had with a G2014 fanboy, who's reasoning was that since Shin made less than G2K did in america it's a Box office flop and therefore a bad film. Hell, Wikizilla even took my side and he simply said "doesn't change the fact that it still flopped by making only 78 million USD and the fact most Americans panned it". He's kinda notorious on youtube now, he'll do anything to show Shin in a bad light, even if it goes against canon fact

[SonOfGorgo]

Lol, this reminds me of a 300 long commetn chain argument I had with a G2014 fanboy, who's reasoning was that since Shin made less than G2K did in america it's a Box office flop and therefore a bad film. Hell, Wikizilla even took my side and he simply said "doesn't change the fact that it still flopped by making only 78 million USD and the fact most Americans panned it". He's kinda notorious on youtube now, he'll do anything to show Shin in a bad light, even if it goes against canon fact

Oh I can guess who that may be...
Was it Reymert Christian Cruz?

[Gawdziller1954]

Lol, this reminds me of a 300 long commetn chain argument I had with a G2014 fanboy, who's reasoning was that since Shin made less than G2K did in america it's a Box office flop and therefore a bad film. Hell, Wikizilla even took my side and he simply said "doesn't change the fact that it still flopped by making only 78 million USD and the fact most Americans panned it". He's kinda notorious on youtube now, he'll do anything to show Shin in a bad light, even if it goes against canon fact

Oh I can guess who that may be...
Was it Reymert Christian Cruz?

No, Reymart's a G1998 fanboy.

[Mac Daddy MM]

ShinGoji: Success in Japan.
LegendaryGoji: Success worldwide.

I only know enough about merch sales to say that ShinGoji sold the fewest VHS tapes in Godzilla history.

MM, the films Shin defeated for Best Picture are called
Rage (in an amusing coincidence, starring Ken Watanabe): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4384088/
What a Wonderful Family!: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4065842/
Her Love Boils Bathwater: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4778500/
64, Part 1: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4471630/

Full list of results from last years's Awards of the Japanese Academy:
http://www.imdb.com/event/ev0000372/

As I expected, nothing too fancy. I mean, it could have been a better award - maybe go for a real academy award? That would definitely show the Shin haters who's boss if it could have beat a movie like Hacksaw Ridge. But hey, beggars can't be choosers right? I'm sure Anno will soon go back to being the overly depressed little man he is.

So now calling a good film good is considered "humping".

Some people should consider leaving for "good" again.

Boy, you sure do live up to your name. <3

[Tarbosaurus]

I think this can be retitled as "Your Mileage May Vary: The Thread". What designates as "better" is an opinion and not a tangible fact. At least not with movies that had honest hard work and effort put into them. This is why if you get a fan of Star Wars and a fan of Lord of the Rings in a discussion of "Is Lord of the Rings and Star Wars better than Battlefield Earth?", they'll agree both franchises are better because the movies have merits and were well made. But if you then ask "Which are better films, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars?", then you get an opinion debate.

If there is anything we can agree on is that both 2014 and Shin were made with a lot of love, hard work, and gained success. We can have favorites for sure, but let's try not to get too defensive about it. I see some coming in saying "Shin is the only one since the original worth thinking about" or "2014 broke the ground whereas Shin just piggybacked" and they don't expect some folks to get defensive?

Look, both 2014 and Shin were successful and there are reasons for that beyond just them being good movies. 2014 put the series to scale not seen before and allowed for appeal globally, Shin succeeded in being a Godzilla film practically tailor-made to the current situation in Japan right now. If you flipped them around to where Shin was the huge blockbuster Legendary made and 2014 was the Toho homegrown project, I doubt they'd be as successful. 2014 doesn't appeal as much to a Japanese audience because it lacks the political climate and Shin would fail to bite in as hard as 2014 did globally because its messages are so Japanese-centric.

So saying one is outright better is like asking which is better, the greatest car ever made or the greatest boat ever made?


Now I will say I do see the defensiveness a bit stronger on the Shin side of things were it seems some big praises for Shin come with jabs at 2014, but then you get the pushback and lashing from 2014's fans at Shin. It's fine to have an opinion, personally while I find both are well made I have a bigger beef with Shin's pacing and actually found a couple of its choices mildly insulting; but that doesn't keep me from liking it. Not once will I say 2014 is a better reboot or Shin is a bad movie. So I feel like the title of this thread is a loaded question. Titling it "Is Shin Godzilla a Better Reboot?" already insinuates some feel it very much is, making the 2014 side go on the offensive to justify if they feel different. I think "Is Shin Godzilla or Godzilla 2014 a Better Reboot" would have been better if we must have a debate over this.

[Zarm]

An excellent and eloquent post.

Here, here! Well said!