Would You Call the Similarities to Evangelion Lazy?

[Dillyziller]

I've noticed some have claimed Anno to be lazy for including elements from his most successful work into Shin Godzilla.
I've personally always seen the similarities as Anno attempting to lore in Eva fans or him doing what he's always wanted to for a Godzilla movie but he just never had the chance before Eva.

But lazy? Is it really lazy to take elements from your own past work then to add those elements to another work? I'm quite curious what you all think.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I've noticed some have claimed Toho to be lazy for including elements from their most successful prior Godzilla films into Shin Godzilla.
I've personally always seen the similarities as Toho attempting to lure in nostalgic fans or him doing what he's always wanted to for a Godzilla movie but he just never had the chance before this current film.

[spoil]What? What similarities, barring the reuse of devesive battle. The two thematically, character and plot wise couldn't be any more different. Eva is a story about a young boy put in a difficult situation, and making the best of it while fighting off his emotionally abusive father and basically God in giant cyborg mech suits. Shin G is a Godzilla film that's a political satire of the Japanese government, and a reaction to the Fukushima disaster. Anyone who calls Shin G lazy, for being similar to Eva probably hasn't seen Eva and is just taking a cheap dig at Shin G because they don't like Eva or Anno. I'm sure their are some similarities, but if they're design choices that's superficial as a complaint and just an artistic motif on Anno's part. [/spoil]

[PRIMEVAL]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar. Don't care for the usage of Eva music, though. Maybe lazy on the musician's part for that, unless Anno is the one who forced that upon him. Then it's just silly.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar. Don't care for the usage of prior Goji music, though. Maybe lazy on the directors part for that, unless Toho is the one who forced that upon him. Then it's just silly.



(Actually, I thought the decisive battle was well utilized, especially if you get the context of when the music plays in the anime. In the anime it's played when Eva's are fighting angels, yet here it plays during the sequences where the characters are trying to solve the mystery of Shin G, not the bureaucratic politicians. It also progresses and gets more intense, eventually ending in the rock version. It shows that yes, all these meetings are a fight. And yeah, part of it is to make an Eva reference, but it works!

[Dillyziller]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar. Don't care for the usage of prior Goji music, though. Maybe lazy on the directors part for that, unless Toho is the one who forced that upon him. Then it's just silly.

I've noticed some have claimed Toho to be lazy for including elements from their most successful prior Godzilla films into Shin Godzilla.
I've personally always seen the similarities as Toho attempting to lure in nostalgic fans or him doing what he's always wanted to for a Godzilla movie but he just never had the chance before this current film.

Thanks for sharing your opinion but why are you reposting what we've said with minor changes?

[LSD Jellyfish]

Because I'm showing the same criticism can apply to literally any Godzilla film, and that anyone calling Shin G lazy for those reasons are either hating specifically Eva or Shin G prior. It's just to show hypocrisy of the fandom. Not aimed at you, but in general. There are certainly a lot of Annoying haters.

[UltramanGoji]

No, not at all. The "similarities" are either direct references like the music or just part of Anno's style. Of course it's similar to Eva, they're made by the same guy.

[Spuro]

A direct reference is like a Yoda costume showing up in ET, or C3PO and R2D2 showing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

On the other hand, an entire third of your soundtrack being recycled music from a previous show you worked on (and the exact same damn drum beat, no less) IS lazy. No ifs, ands, or buts.

[PRIMEVAL]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar. Don't care for the usage of prior Goji music, though. Maybe lazy on the directors part for that, unless Toho is the one who forced that upon him. Then it's just silly.

Except, Goji music is Goji music. Eva music is Eva music. Eva music is not Goji music. Goji music is not Eva music. Not comparable.

[Dillyziller]

What if I told you Eva music is NOT Eva music... but James Bond music...
https://youtu.be/BKCEiNk198E

[Spuro]

What if I told you Eva music is NOT Eva music... but James Bond music...
https://youtu.be/BKCEiNk198E

Forgot about that. XD

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Huh... a director who's known for his well received style directs a movie... with the same cues and visual flair...


must be laziness.

[BARAGONBREH]

It isn't lazy, but it isn't particularly groundbreaking or good, either. Anno is a talented director and Eva did a lot of very necessary (and still widely misunderstood) work to help fan culture stop making fools of themselves, but Shin is just an okay Godzilla movie.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar. Don't care for the usage of prior Goji music, though. Maybe lazy on the directors part for that, unless Toho is the one who forced that upon him. Then it's just silly.

Except, Goji music is Goji music. Eva music is Eva music. Eva music is not Goji music. Goji music is not Eva music. Not comparable.

Depends on the transformative nature of the song and its context within a movie. This will be my personal opinion, but when a song is utlilized within a film it is either music, or transforms. What I mean by that is that it either is the exact same thing you've listened to 1000x times, or takes on a different meaning and vibe with the accompanying film as it's paired with new visuals that it was not intended to accompany. Many movies use and insert dumb shit that isn't transformative, where it's just used as filler music to get people pumped with little meaning behind, which isn't even bad persay, but I'm saying it's not as creative as some other points. You can take any of your favorite songs, and put it over a movie, but that doesn't make it transformative, you've just put a song over a movie.

To give some examples of what I mean of non transformative music:
-Suicide Squad takes hip popular music and inserts it. A lot of the songs I like but none of it really has any meaning or relevance within the movie.
-Minions movie uses a ton of popular songs from the 60's. Other than taking place in the 60s these songs don't hold relevance or convey a message.

While on the good side:
-Holy Motors, one of my favorite French Avant-garde films, actually utilizes a few Godzilla tracks. I suggest watching this clip:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=twcbKbLQUuA

Here, the music works regardless of whether you know it's a Godzilla cue. However, if you understand the context of the song, that this was Godzilla's theme when he rises from the depths, and caused a rampage, then you suddenly get this is not just a callback or inclusion of a song you like, but a comparison of monstrosities. It adds a new layer and context to the film. It's not lazy at all, and I wrote earlier how reusing Decesive Battle wasn't lazy because it was used in a completely new context that added to the meaning showing humanities struggle, and how the decesive battle was working on scientific research and planning carefully, enduring long sessions of no sleep, rather than just bombing the shit out of Godzilla.

Just another quick example and comparison to show what I mean by using music transformatively
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gt2KlkBUgXA

Gaurdians of the Galaxy(a movie I quite like) has a great soundtrack, but the soundtrack other than resonating with the good vibes, really doesn't mean much. It uses a Bowie Song, Moonage Daydream, but it really doesn't mean much.

Compare to Marvius Sang (ANOTHER FRENCH FILM) that uses Modern Love, a minute or two in to show one of the characters love and sudden giddiness. Of course, it goes beyond that, if you know the movie is about young love but also fear of STDS and AIDS as well as modern views on sexuality, as well as foreign interests and influence. It also serves as a juxtaposition to the song that plays right before it.

What if I told you Eva music is NOT Eva music... but James Bond music...
https://youtu.be/BKCEiNk198E

Well, I can certainly see direct similarities, but you're going to get into a very deep and subjective topic of where inspiration ends and stealing begins. Believe it or not a lot of compositional music borrows from the same riffs and scores, it's the variation and choice of instrumentation that changes it, the transformative quality. I will defend Eva music, and by Proxy the Shin Gojira soundtrack based on that merit. And yes, the Deceaive Batrle does have a near identical buildup, the same drumbeat, but a few seconds both go in radically different directions with the Eva song having a huge fanfare of trumpets that swing high and low. And while Shin Gojira has a lot of reused music, people aren't really talking about Persecution of the Masses, the theme of the film which makes up for any non original content. This is an entirely different conversation though, so I'll accept if you want to agree to disagree.


And overall, all these similarities to Eva are purely based on one Eva song appearing in the film, so beyond that it's worth wondering what similarities their are to call Shin G lazy.

[PRIMEVAL]

What if I told you Eva music is NOT Eva music... but James Bond music...
https://youtu.be/BKCEiNk198E

Guess I shouldn't be surprised. A lot of us do like to "borrow" music for our soundtracks. (Bobby Prince, anyone?)

[saving space]

Okay, that Holy Motors thing cracked me up. I guess it does depend on its usage, though I still don't really feel the Eva music in Godzilla. As a soundtrack musician myself, I prefer to use completely original work for different projects unless they happen to be related, and I feel that Shin Godzilla should have had a completely original score for it. The original compositions were beautiful and set the tone perfectly.

[Rodan]

How dare someone reuse music cues or certain visual compositions throughout their oeuvre!

Script-wise, which is where I think it really counts, they're almost night and day. I was shocked by how little my dialogue and character issues with Eva, which I've attempted to watch twice and dropped, applied to Shin Godzilla. Everything feels really efficient and grounded, with only a few well-placed concessions to overly stylized back-and-forth. Thematically, they also wind up being quite different, with one more narrowly focused on the psycho-sexual--using the spectacle to represent internal conflicts--and one being more outwardly, urgently political.

[BooLugosi]

Is G14 using a song from 2001:A Space Odyssey lazy? Art is full of derivative stuff from the past and present, no matter how original it may seem. Nothing is 100% original. Everything steals from something. It is just a matter of whether it works or not which is up to the individual viewer to decide.

[Biollante_lover]

would I call a director having a certain style of filmmaking lazy? no. most filmmakers have their own distinct style.

[Inferno Rodan]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar.

Bruh.


That said, no, I wouldn't call it laziness.

[PRIMEVAL]

I don't know anything visually or plot related that's really similar.

Bruh.



That said, no, I wouldn't call it laziness.

I don't really watch Eva, so I'm not necessarily wrong with saying I don't know any similarities Though, a lot of that looks like it's just typical giant monster stuff, but I'm not surprised that some shots are nearly identical.