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Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:53 pm
by Inferno Rodan
Shin Godzilla gave us a very different take on the Godzilla character, and in doing so has perfectly highlighted the double standards that Godzilla fans have regarding what they deem acceptable about what makes him Godzilla.

Origin
While the specifics of Godzilla's origin have varied throughout the years, he has always been some sort of reptilian creature that was either awakened or mutated by nuclear testing. Shin Godzilla's origin has none of those things. While it could certainly be argued that the nuclear waste angle is simply a more modern take on the nuclear aspect (and not one I would argue against), there's no defending the amalgamation of organisms aspect. This is literally the equivalent of turning King Kong into a magical crocodile, or making Superman's home planet Mars. It's really hilarious so few people have a problem with this, considering the flak G'98 gets for being a mutant iguana (which, for those of you keeping track, is way closer to tradition than an amalgam of random sea life).

Metamorphosis/Evolution
Related to the above, Shin Godzilla's self-evolving capability is a massive departure from the core character. Gaining new powers is something that Godzilla has done plenty, and it's not something fans generally have a problem with. But actually going through a multi-stage physical evolution like some sort of demented Pokemon is completely outside the realm of what fans would consider acceptable under any other circumstances.

Personality
Godzilla's personality has varied hugely over the years, ranging from a force of evil to a protector of humanity. But they all have one thing in common: they actually have a personality. Shin Godzilla... doesn't. As one of the reviews on the main site so aptly puts it, Shin Godzilla basically acts like a giant wind-up toy. His "rampage" through Tokyo isn't even actually a rampage. Past Godzillas would intentionally raze their surroundings. Shin Godzilla just goes on a stroll. Yes, he freaks out and levels everything in the general area when he finally gets injured, but that was just lashing out in pain. One of the biggest criticisms of G'98 is that he "doesn't act like Godzilla." Neither does Shin, yet most people don't seem to mind.

Then there's Shin Godzilla's design. Yeah, he's still clearly recognizable as Godzilla in silhouette, but LP Godzilla taught us that that's not enough for many fans (so long as it's not from Toho, at least). No, Godzilla fans will pick apart any non-Toho Godzilla for the most minute, inane details.

Fat
A lot of people called LP Godzilla fat, especially Japanese fans. First of all, he's not fat. His body structure is slightly different from all other Godzillas, being built like a reptilian bear while all Toho Godzillas are, well, built like people. So he lacks the puffed-out chest and broad, human-like shoulders that people are accustomed to for Godzilla. Now granted, people do occasionally call Heisei Godzilla fat too. But he's not fat either. He's bulky. He has a shitton of body mass, but the way it's sculpted and proportioned makes it very clear that it's muscle.

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Shin Godzilla, on the other hand, is fat. He is literally pear-shaped. His thighs make Heisei's look downright svelte in comparison.

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And, unlike Heisei Godzilla, Shin's mass has no aesthetic behind it. There's no underlying musculature or anything. His legs just look like fat rolls on top of fat rolls. And what's worse is that he's completely out of proportion to the point that he looks ridiculous. Everything above his hips looks like it's half the size it should be compared to his legs and tail.

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But no, most fans have no problem with this because it's from Toho.

Gills
People bitched about LP Godzilla having gills. Then Shin comes along and has gills too, but no one says anything because it's from Toho. What makes this one doubly ridiculous is the fact that LP's gills are barely even noticeable, while Shin's range from "taking up a third of his body" to "still blatantly obvious" depending on which form he's in.

Feet
There were literally dozens of pages of people arguing over LP Godzilla's feet. G'98's feet got criticism too, albeit as part of the whole package of being built like a theropod. Nevertheless, G'98 being digitigrade was a sticking point for fans. Well guess what?

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Shin Godzilla is digitigrade too. But fans don't care, because it's from Toho.

(as an aside, the above picture also exquisitely highlights my "fat rolls on top of fat rolls" point)

CGI
Okay, this one is admittedly not something I've seen recently, barring from one particular Upset Computerized Diversion Dork. But I'm going to include it anyway because it's only something the fandom has eased up on within the past few years. It used to be that a live-action Godzilla had to be portrayed primarily via suitmation in order for fans to consider it a "true" Godzilla. Basically this was just fans looking for another reason to say G'98 sucked.

Not immune to conventional weaponry
This isn't an argument I personally agree with, but it's oft-cited by fans as something important to the character: Godzilla must be completely immune to conventional weaponry. Shin Godzilla was injured by conventional weapons. But most fans accepted it happening with minimal fuss, because it's Toho.

Asexual reproduction
I think this one might be the most shining example of the fandom's hypocrisy regarding Shin Godzilla. Apart from the design, the number one biggest problem most people had with G'98 was the fact that Godzilla reproduced asexually. Now Shin rolls along and has the exact same ability, and not a single person gives it a second thought. Because Toho. It's pretty hilarious, actually.


And I'm done. For the record, because someone will surely jump to the conclusion and accuse me of such if I don't make it perfectly clear, I am not saying Shin Godzilla isn't a Godzilla. He certainly is, because Toho says he is and that's ultimately all that matters. All I'm doing with this thread is pointing out how hypocritical most fans are.

tl:dr version:
If an American Godzilla had been made even remotely like Shin Godzilla, it would be utterly crucified by the fans. The only reason he hasn't been is because "Muh Toho." Anyone that believes otherwise is in denial.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:59 pm
by Ivo-goji
Can't argue with that.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:05 pm
by Kaiju-King42
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Very well put, IR. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:07 pm
by Variola
I love LPG, I love Shin Godzilla, and if the two were swapped in country of origin, I would still love them.

GINO is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. He's piss weak, he spends the whole movie running away, he looks lame. His changes to the character are for the worse, while Shin's are mostly positive.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:11 pm
by M.U.T.O.
Variola wrote:I love LPG, I love Shin Godzilla, and if the two were swapped in country of origin, I would still love them.

GINO is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. He's piss weak, he spends the whole movie running away, he looks lame. His changes to the character are for the worse, while Shin's are mostly positive.

Exactly my case here.
I feel like I'll prolly get forum-jumped for saying this, but I disagree with the majority of the points IR makes here. (Not to mention his photoshop of Shin to look like the last Heisei Godzilla design looks less proportionate for this design anyways.)

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:22 pm
by Mr_Goji_and_Watch
this post made my blood presser go up

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:39 pm
by Gerdzerl
ShinGoji isn't an amalgamation of random sea life, though. There's absolutely nothing in the film itself that indicates that and no, the brief mention of him being a mixotroph comment doesn't count because oriental hornets and venus flytraps are mixotrophs and those are obviously not Destoroyah / Hedorah style amalgamations of smaller creatures. He could very well just as easily be an irradiated prehistoric fish, amphibian, or aquatic reptile.

Frankly, even if he was an amalgamation of smaller creatures (which he's not), it wouldn't matter because ShinGoji, in the end, ultimately still has a fairly surface level reptilian appearance to him in all of his forms and typical Godzilla traits and body proportions. It's not remotely comparable with turning Kong, a character that's always definitively been an ape and has always looked like one, into a "magic crocodile". Godzilla's always had a reptilian look to him, yes, but him being a reptile specifically isn't really important as long as he looks like one. Kong does not look a crocodile in the slightest.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:59 pm
by Dillyziller
A mod creates a topic that will obviously cause MANY arguments.

Toho Kingdom ladies and gentlemen.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:06 pm
by ToxicLove
Image

I chortled. Quality bait post.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:07 pm
by M.U.T.O.
Dillyziller wrote:A mod creates a topic that will obviously cause MANY arguments.

Toho Kingdom ladies and gentlemen.

ToxicLove wrote:Image

I chortled. Quality bait post.

If this were reddit, I'd upvote the poop outta these two posts.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:16 pm
by Godzilla165
Oh TK, your ridiculousness is something else.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:13 pm
by g2vd
Inferno Rodan wrote:Shin Godzilla, on the other hand, is fat. He is literally pear-shaped. His thighs make Heisei's look downright svelte in comparison.

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That is still the most hilarious image of all time. :lol:

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:17 pm
by Showa Gyaos
I'm okay with anything as long as it looks like Godzilla. As for Shin's behavior, I already see each incarnation of Godzilla as a different entity anyway.

As long as he isn't killed by conventional weapons, and looks like Godzilla, I'll consider it to be a Godzilla.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:01 pm
by HeiseiGodzilla117
I don't think Shin Godzilla is an amalgam of different sea critters/microorganisms. I think, because he resembles a frilled shark when he first appears, he might be some sort of prehistoric fish. But a fish still isn't great. I prefer my Godzillas to be either ancient reptiles or irradiated dinos.

That said, great post, IR. I was astounded by the hypocrisy of many fans when this movie first came out and I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one. The reception to the difference in origin and the asexual reproduction aspects especially seemed bizarre to me because I heard endless bitching about both those aspects with regards to G98. And you're right. If an American movie had made the changes to Godzilla this movie made, torches and pitchforks would've been at the ready. I accept Shin Godzilla as Godzilla the same way I accept the 98 creature as Godzilla. That's an indisputable fact. But that doesn't mean I appreciate them to the same degree that I do with the other Toho versions and the Legendary Pictures one.

Kamata-kun is still one of the most adorable kaiju to ever grace the screen, though...

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:13 pm
by Gerdzerl
To be fair, as Jomei pointed out on his Tumblr:

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Besides, it's not like the majority of the Godzilla fandom outright rejected LegendaryGoji, only a whiny minority thinly spread out across various obscure crevices of the internet.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:31 pm
by Beef Bigshot
Dillyziller wrote:A mod creates a topic that will obviously cause MANY arguments.

Toho Kingdom ladies and gentlemen.


Arguing politely doesn't get people punished, making stupid comments like this does on the other hand

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:45 pm
by Showa Gyaos
Gerdzerl wrote:To be fair, as Jomei pointed out on his Tumblr:

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Besides, it's not like the majority of the Godzilla fandom outright rejected LegendaryGoji, only a whiny minority thinly spread out across various obscure crevices of the internet.

Jim always knew how to make his points strong.

I share the same viewpoint. The 2014 film was a litmus test to see if America could get it right, and they did.

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:57 am
by ScrumpBump

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:22 am
by ToxicLove
To stir the pot, I've yet to see this overwhelming, hypocritical majority that loved Shin Godzilla from the very first image and bashed G14. I can't speak for Japan (the main country of revenue/viewership/popularity) but you couldn't possibly count the vast number of comments ala "Why is Shin Godzilla so fugly wtf American did it better in 2014!" from the American fanbase. These comments continue to this day. Legendary Godzilla has now been wrapped up in some kind of blanket, and any negative comment about him seems to send many Godzilla fans (at least American ones) into a foaming rage.

I think a more appropriate topic would be "Legendary exemplifies the hypocrisy of the fandom", because I have never seen so much yes-man statements, reverence and apologist behavior towards an admittedly competent, though heavily flawed and rather average film. I speak as someone who, by the by, enjoyed it more than hated it, so do with that what you will. B) - Goro Maki

Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:31 am
by Godzilla165
This topic is funny. There are still countless people on TK, and in the fanbase in general that despise Shin Godzilla's design. But sure, let's fall back on the grade-school level, and flimsy, "because it's Toho" argument. This fandom is incredibly hypocritical and ignorant all of the time. People still have full scale debates about G14's feet for godsake. It's also funny that Shin Godzilla and, to an extent, G14, get flak for doing different things and having different abilities.

Godzilla has literally flown before, he's talked before, he's been a karate master before, he's pulled a Kong and fallen for a woman before, he's defied gravity and performed a tail slide body slam before, he's been to space, he turned into a bloody magnet, he's been a literal dinosaur, he played soccer, he danced, he's been possessed by angry spirits, etc.

All of that ridiculous poop that has been a part of Godzilla's 62 year old legacy, and people haven't batted an eye. Yet, when one modern day Godzilla film decides to do something different, and take risks as to not get incessant bitching from the fandom, for being "dull" and "more of the same"... It gets flak?

There's you hypocrisy. This fandom sometimes man, you just gotta have a laugh at it.