Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Cosbydaf » Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:51 pm

While I'm not too crazy about the weirdness attributed to Shin Gojira, I'm kinda glad that they made him weird, at least for this specific movie. Because a traditional Godzilla without any twists would have made this movie even more boring than it already is.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby BooLugosi » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:08 pm

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:11 pm

One day in the future i will laugh at all the arguing about Shin and G14, wait im laughing now.

Anyway i like both Shin and G14, i dont care if its Toho made or Hollywood made i just like Godzilla. At the end of the day we should be happy that any movie company is interested in making more Godzilla films for us to "enjoy".( whatever enjoy means to some people). Just because i loved Shin doesnt mean im a Toho fanboy, i just liked it because im a skreeonking Godzilla fan. Sure all this arguing makes me cringe and hurt a little and it just shows the hatred of some people.

I agree with previous posts that it doesnt mention that Shin is a microorganism mix thing. His origin wasnt the main point of the film. Sure Godzilla has had alot of wierd changes and powers and i see how it could be a little overwhelming with all this new stuff in one film.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby BooLugosi » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:19 pm

Dillyziller wrote:I mean...
Godzilla is a skreeonked up mutated creature that represents the horror of nuclear weapons and is supposed to have skin that represents the radiation burns of the Japanese victims of the atomic bomb.


People prefer beauty over the truth, man. That's why people want some cute and cuddly idealized Goji design like 2014 and have a negative reaction from Shin Goji. At least, that's the kind of vibe I get from people that have this knee jerk "EDGELORD DEVIANTART EDGY EDGE EDGE!!!" reaction people have to it. Shin Gojira is what Gojira was originally supposed to be, a personification of the violence and destructiveness of the human soul. I think it's good that we are getting a horror based design again. We've strayed too far away from the dark themes of the 1954 film.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Godzilla The King » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:21 pm

Well, I don't disagree that Shin is a return to 54's direction but don't be putting down Legendary for doing it's own thing. The Legendary design is meant to be a creature that is believable, the Shin design is a creature that comes from our nightmares. Both perfectly valid.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby BooLugosi » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:31 pm

Godzilla The King wrote:Well, I don't disagree that Shin is a return to 54's direction but don't be putting down Legendary for doing it's own thing. The Legendary design is meant to be a creature that is believable, the Shin design is a creature that comes from our nightmares. Both perfectly valid.


I appreciate G14 but I think Shin Gojira is a more artistic design(And film.) than G14. I guess it's kind of cool that they made G14 look like a more animalistic Gojira but I prefer films that don't let mainstream appeal get in the way of artistic and abstract ideas.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Godzilla The King » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:33 pm

Well, there is a difference in intent is what I'm getting at. Like Legendary is not supposed to be nightmarish, Shin is. Your opinions are valid, however.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:39 pm

BooLugosi wrote:Shin Gojira is what Gojira was originally supposed to be, a personification of the violence and destructiveness of the human soul.


Kinda failed there. He was hardly violent and only destructive accidentally save for when he got hurt. Shin is actually a fairly peaceful kaiju. He just wanders about with no apparent motivation. So he's not great as a metaphor or personification of the violence or destruction brought on by humans and their creations. He just happens to look gruesome and menacing.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby BooLugosi » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:53 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
BooLugosi wrote:Shin Gojira is what Gojira was originally supposed to be, a personification of the violence and destructiveness of the human soul.


Kinda failed there. He was hardly violent and only destructive accidentally save for when he got hurt. Shin is actually a fairly peaceful kaiju. He just wanders about with no apparent motivation. So he's not great as a metaphor or personification of the violence or destruction brought on by humans and their creations. He just happens to look gruesome and menacing.


He was clearly causing destruction even if it was not on purpose at first. The atomic bomb and pollution destroy things in their path but it's not like those things are doing it because they have their own agenda. That doesn't change the fact that they are devastating. Shin Gojira is just those human caused problems personified. He may not be causing destruction with his own purpose but he still caused widespread pollution, death, destruction, and not to mention economic disasters in the film and that's before he even became hostile.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:08 pm

BooLugosi wrote:He was clearly causing destruction even if it was not on purpose at first. The atomic bomb and pollution destroy things in their path but it's not like those things are doing it because they have their own agenda. That doesn't change the fact that they are devastating. Shin Gojira is just those human caused problems personified. He may not be causing destruction with his own purpose but he still caused widespread pollution, death, destruction, and not to mention economic disasters in the film and that's before he even became hostile.


Sure, but you said he was like the original Godzilla in that he is the "personification of the violence and destructiveness of the human soul." That implies that, like the original Godzilla, he was causing destruction on purpose. He obviously wasn't. He's naturally passive. He has no agenda. The atomic bomb may not have an agenda, but the humans using it certainly do. And if that violent mindset is what Anno was drawing from for this Godzilla, he failed. If anything, to me, he's more a personification of natural disasters like the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami and the resulting Fukushima nuclear disaster (if only because they needed to tie him to radiation somehow). In fact, much of the imagery of the movie is an obvious nod to those disasters. He's like a big, fleshy, mindless tsunami. So yes, he causes destruction, but not in a way that invokes the violence of man.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby M.U.T.O. » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:15 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
BooLugosi wrote:He was clearly causing destruction even if it was not on purpose at first. The atomic bomb and pollution destroy things in their path but it's not like those things are doing it because they have their own agenda. That doesn't change the fact that they are devastating. Shin Gojira is just those human caused problems personified. He may not be causing destruction with his own purpose but he still caused widespread pollution, death, destruction, and not to mention economic disasters in the film and that's before he even became hostile.


Sure, but you said he was like the original Godzilla in that he is the "personification of the violence and destructiveness of the human soul." That implies that, like the original Godzilla, he was causing destruction on purpose. He obviously wasn't. He's naturally passive. He has no agenda. The atomic bomb may not have an agenda, but the humans using it certainly do. And if that violent mindset is what Anno was drawing from for this Godzilla, he failed. If anything, to me, he's more a personification of natural disasters like the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami and the resulting Fukushima nuclear disaster (if only because they needed to tie him to radiation somehow). In fact, much of the imagery of the movie is an obvious nod to those disasters. He's like a big, fleshy, mindless tsunami. So yes, he causes destruction, but not in a way that invokes the violence of man.

Anno was attempting to invoke the latter, not the violent agenda of humanity which you referred to in the former.
So he didn't fail at what he attempted to invoke. :P
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby BooLugosi » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:19 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
BooLugosi wrote:He was clearly causing destruction even if it was not on purpose at first. The atomic bomb and pollution destroy things in their path but it's not like those things are doing it because they have their own agenda. That doesn't change the fact that they are devastating. Shin Gojira is just those human caused problems personified. He may not be causing destruction with his own purpose but he still caused widespread pollution, death, destruction, and not to mention economic disasters in the film and that's before he even became hostile.


Sure, but you said he was like the original Godzilla in that he is the "personification of the violence and destructiveness of the human soul." That implies that, like the original Godzilla, he was causing destruction on purpose. He obviously wasn't. He's naturally passive. He has no agenda. The atomic bomb may not have an agenda, but the humans using it certainly do. And if that violent mindset is what Anno was drawing from for this Godzilla, he failed. If anything, to me, he's more a personification of natural disasters like the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami and the resulting Fukushima nuclear disaster (if only because they needed to tie him to radiation somehow). In fact, much of the imagery of the movie is an obvious nod to those disasters. He's like a big, fleshy, mindless tsunami. So yes, he causes destruction, but not in a way that invokes the violence of man.


What I meant by "the violence and destruction of mankind" is the destruction and death caused by humanity. I'm not implying Shin has the violence in his personality. I'm just saying he's kind of like a bomb or pollution which is caused by man. He just destroys what happens to be in his path and he was created by man's pollution and arrogance. GMK Gojira is more like what you thought I was implying. I'm just implying he reminds me of the destruction caused by man, not mankind's violent attitude itself.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Variola » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:54 pm

Godzilla165 wrote:Godzilla has literally flown before, he's talked before, he's been a karate master before, he's pulled a Kong and fallen for a woman before, he's defied gravity and performed a tail slide body slam before, he's been to space, he turned into a bloody magnet, he's been a literal dinosaur, he played soccer, he danced, he's been possessed by angry spirits, etc.

All of that ridiculous poop that has been a part of Godzilla's 62 year old legacy, and people haven't batted an eye. Yet, when one modern day Godzilla film decides to do something different, and take risks as to not get incessant bitching from the fandom, for being "dull" and "more of the same"... It gets flak?

This, so much this. Not to mention he's shot energy out of his dorsal fins before (GvDestoroyah) and in that same movie been a glowing red, steam-gushing walking furnace that eventually melted.
Godzilla's malleability and adaptability are why he's lasted 60 years; if he never deviated from his original form, he would have long since become boring.
As for GINO, the key difference is that Shin still fundamentally looks and acts like Godzilla. (Upright dude in a dinosaur suit that doesn't spend the whole movie running away)

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:04 pm

BooLugosi wrote:What I meant by "the violence and destruction of mankind" is the destruction and death caused by humanity. I'm not implying Shin has the violence in his personality. I'm just saying he's kind of like a bomb or pollution which is caused by man. He just destroys what happens to be in his path and he was created by man's pollution and arrogance. GMK Gojira is more like what you thought I was implying. I'm just implying he reminds me of the destruction caused by man, not mankind's violent attitude itself.



Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby BooLugosi » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:06 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
BooLugosi wrote:What I meant by "the violence and destruction of mankind" is the destruction and death caused by humanity. I'm not implying Shin has the violence in his personality. I'm just saying he's kind of like a bomb or pollution which is caused by man. He just destroys what happens to be in his path and he was created by man's pollution and arrogance. GMK Gojira is more like what you thought I was implying. I'm just implying he reminds me of the destruction caused by man, not mankind's violent attitude itself.



Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

Thank you for the debate! :huge: It definitely made the gears in my head turn and made me think.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:10 pm

I said it once, I'll say it again, Shin Godzilla showed how GINO could have been radically different but still be Godzilla had they kept the basics.


They didn't. As for conventional weapons, yeah conventional is not what I'd call a MOAB. Plus the giant holes on his back are a big weakpoint, like Godzilla 2014's gills.

Really what they did was give Godzilla 1954 GINO's asexual reproduction without taking away his powers, aggressive nature and if anything give him new powers. Does he run away from the military when being shot at? Nope, he ignores or attacks them. Does he get hurt by them? Other than the MOAB (which is nothing to scuff at) nope. He destroys Tokyo. His origin is pretty much the same as before, prehistoric life form feeds off radaiton and is badly burned and mutated. Doesn't need to be nukes, it's still radiation, helll Heisei was made by a nuclear sub sinking (and time travel!) and not bombs. GMK was made by nukes and ghosts.

His powers are no more insane than 70's Godzilla.

Size and body shape? Don't give a skreeonk, it's Godzilla. He's been changed a lot over the ages, Hell GINO's problem wasn't his design or his asexuallity. It would have taken time to get use to but had he fought the army, had his atomic breath and been harder to kill than normal missiles....heck I would have been fine with him being killed by MOABs since they are like super bombs, as long as everything under that failed.

CGI? Don't care. While I would have liked both practical and digital FX as I feel you get the best results using both, at the end of the day a motion capture actor is pretty much the same thing as a suit actor.

I will say though, the lack of a personality is the biggest flaw with this Godzilla. Is it a franchise runier? No, it's bad don't get me wrong but it;s nothing new, we've had movies where Godzilla has been just a plot device with little personality. It's bad but it's not gonna destroy the franchise.


Nice try though, kid.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Omegazilla » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:54 pm

Every fandom is full of hypocrisy. Both Godzillas ARE Godzilla. While I do vastly prefer Shin over LP, each Godzilla incarnation has their pros and cons and that's just how it is. LP's Godzilla is as Godzilla as any Toho Godzilla.

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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby Godzilla The King » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:16 am

I think hypocrisy is inherent to fanbases since...well, it's a bunch of people. People can be petty, people can do dumb things but I feel like this is not tackling it in a smart way. Yeah, Shin is doing radical things and I don't like some of them but liking them is not hypocrisy unless y'know someone who complained Legendary was too radical liked Shin.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby SonOfGorgo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:34 am

Jeez, I really have to see that Shin film if I should get a say in this.
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Re: Shin Godzilla exemplifies the hypocrisy of this fandom

Postby GoodOlGoji » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:05 pm

I honestly have no problem with the new Godzilla. I can understand why so many people are outraged tho. It's truly an absurd and outlandish take on the character, but what saves it from becoming like '98 is that the film clearly has great respect for the character and franchise. Shin Goji isn't a miserably misplaced iquana-turned-t-rex, but the King of the Monsters himself.

But of course, anything TOHO officially recognizes as Godzilla is Godzilla. All this "core of the character" stuff is subjective as hell.

Godzilla165 wrote:This topic is funny. There are still countless people on TK, and in the fanbase in general that despise Shin Godzilla's design. But sure, let's fall back on the grade-school level, and flimsy, "because it's Toho" argument. This fandom is incredibly hypocritical and ignorant all of the time. People still have full scale debates about G14's feet for godsake. It's also funny that Shin Godzilla and, to an extent, G14, get flak for doing different things and having different abilities.

Godzilla has literally flown before, he's talked before, he's been a karate master before, he's pulled a Kong and fallen for a woman before, he's defied gravity and performed a tail slide body slam before, he's been to space, he turned into a bloody magnet, he's been a literal dinosaur, he played soccer, he danced, he's been possessed by angry spirits, etc.

All of that ridiculous poop that has been a part of Godzilla's 62 year old legacy, and people haven't batted an eye. Yet, when one modern day Godzilla film decides to do something different, and take risks as to not get incessant bitching from the fandom, for being "dull" and "more of the same"... It gets flak?

There's you hypocrisy. This fandom sometimes man, you just gotta have a laugh at it.
Most Godzilla fans I see tend to fall into one of two categories. Either they're generally accepting of varying takes on the character or they are whiny to the point of constant self contradiction. :/


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