Give Shin Godzilla a Letter Grade

[PitchBlackProgress]

I honestly am stuck between giving Shin Gojira a D or C. I'm leaning towards a D, so a low C-. It was just incredibly boring!!! It had forgetful characters and a boring Godzilla. I get what they were going for and it could have been done beautifully, but it was just poorly executed.

You're just too young to appreciate fine art.

[Zarm]

Is 33 old enough? Because I concur with him.

[PitchBlackProgress]

Is 33 old enough? Because I concur with him.

Heavens no, you have to at least 60+ to fully appreciate Shin for the artistic masterpiece that it is.
#cantbingetheshin

[Spuro]

Is 33 old enough? Because I concur with him.

Heavens no, you have to at least 60+ to fully appreciate Shin for the artistic masterpiece that it is.
#cantbingetheshin

Don't forget you have to be Japanese in order to appreciate it. You're not allowed to criticize Shin if you're a filthy North American!

[Jomei]

It's up to A++ now for still being the most relevant Godzilla film in Japan even after two more have come out.

[eabaker]

No.

Letter grades are a terrible way to classify art and entertainment.

[Jomei]

Per OP, it's just "an easy way to gauge how we all felt about the latest Godzilla adventure."

Of course it's not super substantial discussion-wise if it stops with just the grade, but it's as good as any other scale, I suppose, for seeing the temperature of a film's reception.

A+++ now. Getting hotter and hotter.

[eabaker]

I'd replace "easy" with "unnecessarily simplistic," and I could do without there being a scale at all.

That said, I absolutely encourage you to continue adding plusses.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Shin Godzilla is second only to the original, and the original is only better due to being well, the original.

I remember when Shin came out, a lot of people told me that my opinions over time would change, and that a lot of people were just liking it cause it was the newest. Two years later, I still love it and think it’s the best film in the franchise.

Yeah tho, letter grading systems are absolute trash as the grade scaling is completely meaningless.

[KingKong2005]

Shin Godzilla is second only to the original, and the original is only better due to being well, the original.

I remember when Shin came out, a lot of people told me that my opinions over time would change, and that a lot of people were just liking it cause it was the newest. Two years later, I still love it and think it’s the best film in the franchise.

Yeah tho, letter grading systems are absolute trash as the grade scaling is completely meaningless.

I'm sorry but I just do not see your point. A good film should have good memorable characters, an actual plot that isn't repetitive, and an overall well balanced measure between the monster and the human characters. Shin could have been done in a way better way, but I honestly think that Toho purists are turning a blind eye to the obvious faults of the film because of how different it is from the Legendary films. I mean seriously think about it, what on earth did Shin have going for it?? It's different, which is fine, but the characters are just b o r i n g, the plot is b o r i n g, all you're waiting for when watching the film are the action sequences of Godzilla (which mind you isn't Godzilla until he reaches his final form, AND EVEN THEN he's just a stiff zombie with the Showa Godzilla's roar). Once those action sequences are over, you're left with the boring human stuff. Human stuff, if done well with good characters and a legit advancing plot, are what make the film good. If you don't have a good plot/good human characters, that's when the whole "less is more" argument falls flat. That was the problem with Legendary Godzilla, and that is an even bigger problem with Shin since the Godzilla we see isn't the traditional Godzilla. I woulda been fine with Shin being different, but he was just executed too poorly. I would have wanted him to have no pupils, be a bit more jagged, move in a sickly/zombie fashion and not be a robot, and certainly not let him have the stupid old light ass roar. That roar does not fit his look. He needs to have a deep, nightmarish roar. They shoulda explained Godzilla was a victim of man's actions (kinda delved into that area but not in the way I was hoping). They shoulda explained that he's in pain all the time. I mean it doesn't work when he comes from pollution as well as it would when you say he originated from the atomic bombs. Shin was just poorly executed, and Toho purists who act like they understand "art maaaynnn" and totally ignore the flaws of the film (like it's shit characters and boring plot) are putting it on a pedestal. It's really just some bs. Godzilla 2014 was both underrated and overrated, Shin is just overrated.

[LSD Jellyfish]

^^^You can disagree with me but Yaguchi is the most fleshed out and interesting Godzilla human character since Serizawa.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=25730

I don’t mean to be that guy, but as someone who has a decent grip on Japanese, and current Japanese politics, a lot of it is intrinsically hard to understand if you don’t get it. I’m not even blaming you, or critical of you in that regard, it’s boring if you don’t get that notion. It’s an extreme cultural divide, that people will either get completely or also miss. I’ve never argued “less is more”, but I’m arguing that the parts you find boring are some of the best in the film.

To just give a very clear reason, or scene I can point to that’s explicit satire, when Shin transforms for the first time, there’s a reason 20+ ask for permission to fire, one after another, and delay firing on Godzilla, just because of an old lady.

[Zarm]

Can I ask- is it just the politics that make this a good entry for you? I'm definitely in the 'this movie is way overrated' camp (to me, it is litterally inexplicable how anyone can watch this and come away with anything other than 'that was a middling film, with a very cool nuclear breath scene and strong production values'; I don't mean that as a slight- I just literally don't understand the appeal). I understand that it is loved, but not why. Since I'm the same way with RoG, my running theory is 'political storyline,' but eabaker recently elaborated some other elements that, at least for him, made that a good film. Can you elaborate in terms of Shin?

[KaijuCanuck]

I give this film an A+. I accept the criticism that the characters are not especially well fleshed out. They are kind of all defined by their jobs, and even with Yaguchi we don’t get much in the way of motivation other than that he cares about the country and doesn’t like government ineptitude. But Gojira was the same way. Only Serizawa came close to being a fully realized human character.

Here’s why I think Shin is excellent; it does something rare that I love to see in films - the ‘protagonist’ is not one person, but a larger group. I feel Gojira is similar. The ‘protagonist’ in each is not Yaguchi or Serizawa respectively, but the nation of Japan. We see many organs of the country learning to come together to combat a crisis, including government, military, journalists, science, even geopolitical allies. The ‘character’ which undergoes a change is the larger group - at the start of either films they are not in the organized position they need to be in order to fight the threat. It’s especially powerful when both films are seen in their real world political and cultural contexts.

It’s a rare thing to see in a film, but I love it. There’s something very uplifting and engaging to me about a collective, group story. The only other movie off the top of my head that does this is Dunkirk. That’s also not a movie where any one character is the focus - rather it’s different levels of the British military as well as civilians who pull together to respond to a monumental crisis and achieve something incredible, something that was very much in doubt at the start of the film. The ‘protagonist’ which struggles and undergoes a change is Great Britain.

At least, this my interpretation.

[Jomei]

Can I ask- is it just the politics that make this a good entry for you? I'm definitely in the 'this movie is way overrated' camp (to me, it is litterally inexplicable how anyone can watch this and come away with anything other than 'that was a middling film, with a very cool nuclear breath scene and strong production values'; I don't mean that as a slight- I just literally don't understand the appeal). I understand that it is loved, but not why. Since I'm the same way with RoG, my running theory is 'political storyline,' but eabaker recently elaborated some other elements that, at least for him, made that a good film. Can you elaborate in terms of Shin?

The way it's shot is what does it for me. And the fact that Anno is doing something interesting with virtually every moment of the film if you're watching carefully. I knew within the first ten minutes watching it that the film was going to be something special just from how lively it all was despite being ostensibly dry government stuff. (A lot of critics of the film never get past the "It's a meeting, boring" thought process to actually look at how things are framed, how dialogue is delivered, how things are edited, etc.)

Before even considering how much I love the creature itself and all its forms, the actors and characters, the incredible soundtrack, the amazing destruction scenes, the thematic content, and all of Anno's idiosyncrasies, I am fully charmed by the very texture of the film.

[KingKong2005]

I still don't see how any person can rewatch Shin multiple times, it's extremely boring to me and the characters/plot are boring as well. I'm not trying to repeat myself or shit on a good film, I just think it's very overrated. I definitely see all of your points on the political satire part and the soundtrack being good (not amazing, but considering there's different tastes both cinematically and culturally, I totally understand), so more power to you guys!

[eabaker]

I still don't see how any person can rewatch Shin multiple times, it's extremely boring to me and the characters/plot are boring as well.

I stand by Yaguchi as easily one of the most dynamic, compelling protagonists in any Godzilla movie; and a number of the supporting roles are played by really strong performers who provide interesting reactions.

The flick is also visually stunning, both in its effects scenes and in the inventive ways that the human drama is photographed and cut. It has a visual sensibility and a rhythm totally unique within the series.

[KingKong2005]

I still don't see how any person can rewatch Shin multiple times, it's extremely boring to me and the characters/plot are boring as well.

I stand by Yaguchi as easily one of the most dynamic, compelling protagonists in any Godzilla movie; and a number of the supporting roles are played by really strong performers who provide interesting reactions.

The flick is also visually stunning, both in its effects scenes and in the inventive ways that the human drama is photographed and cut. It has a visual sensibility and a rhythm totally unique within the series.

Oh yeah the film is definitely beautiful! I'm gonna give this a rewatch with your thoughts in mind!

[LSD Jellyfish]

Yeah speaking to Jomei’s and eabakers point the way it’s shot is actually really dynamic. There’s a continual movement of scene after scene, especially early on when the tension rises with Godzilla. There’s also a lot of weird moments where the camera or POV shifts.

There’s a lot of great cuts to a POV of someone looking up at Godzilla, or seeing people run, and then it shifts again into a more establishing shot type thing or follows Yaguchi.

The reason why I can watch it multiple times is each time I notice little clever details or actually understand the human story more.

[KingKong2005]

Yeah speaking to Jomei’s and eabakers point the way it’s shot is actually really dynamic. There’s a continual movement of scene after scene, especially early on when the tension rises with Godzilla. There’s also a lot of weird moments where the camera or POV shifts.

There’s a lot of great cuts to a POV of someone looking up at Godzilla, or seeing people run, and then it shifts again into a more establishing shot type thing or follows Yaguchi.

The reason why I can watch it multiple times is each time I notice little clever details or actually understand the human story more.

Another great point! Definitely keeping an eye out for any details, I jut really hope the film isn't as boring as I remember it being in the theater (granted hearing the Godzilla theme during Form 1's rampage as he fell on that building almost made me cry).

[Jomei]

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