Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

[miguelnuva]

Keep in mind the plot indicates that Shin Godzilla's next evolution is flight. One reason the Americans are ready to deploy nuclear weapons. Another potential lead in to a Shin Rodan.

No Anno was just using music that he liked. Shin Rodan would have been out if that was the plan.

[UltramanGoji]

Keep in mind the plot indicates that Shin Godzilla's next evolution is flight. One reason the Americans are ready to deploy nuclear weapons. Another potential lead in to a Shin Rodan.

No, the plot did not indicate that. It was a hypotethical proposed by one of Yaguchi’s team members. The film indicates the Godzillanoids to be the next evolution. You know, the very last shot of the movie?

I seriously think you’re trolling at this point because nobody in their right mind would try and piece that conclusion out of all these bits.

[Voyager]

I'm just gonna say that Shin is easily the best film since GMK, no doubt about it. I put it in the top four with GMK, Mothra vs Godzilla and Godzilla (Honda).

[ShinGojira14]

The best Godzilla film of the decade, the best Godzilla film alongside the original, and just overall a downright perfect movie. Many a Godzilla film has been a political satire discussing differing issues that society is facing at whatever time the respective film is made, but none anywhere near as political as this film. While I pay heavy attention to politics to ensure I'm not blind to what happens in the world, I'm not a political-type person. So, one would think that I'd get increasingly bored with Shin Godzilla, due to how 85% of the movie consists of an ensemble cast of politicians talk politics.

Spoiler:

Nope.

Even with the constant back-and-forth between different rooms and different conversations that are more focused on the impacts Godzilla is leaving on Japan- physically and economically- than directly to the King of the Monsters himself, I am able to thoroughly invest in this film and its characters. Even when they sometimes speak in words I'm unable to 100% understand, enough else is said and happens in a way that I still know what they're talking about and what is happening. I can feel the looming tension the main characters feel as they struggle to work near-endlessly to contend with the countless ways Godzilla is truly affecting Japan, all the while they also have to make do best they can with both a bureaucratic and incompetent Japanese Government and a not-better-in any way U.S. Government. The movie, like the original 1954 film, goes out of its way to take jabs at both governments for their respective faults, while in the end showing that both governments (and others that get involved with this film) also possess traits in which we could learn from one another. As a result, it paves the way for different countries to unite, to work together as kin, and not as enemies, in order to properly combat a threat as serious and horrifyingly powerful as the King of the Monsters.

And speaking of Godzilla- holy motherskreeonking DAMN is he both terrifying, interesting, and awesome all at once in this movie. His design, for one, is spectacular. When I first saw the leaked images of the design back in 2015, I was initially against them. I wasn't aware that Godzilla had possessed keloid scars from the beginning (in fact, I didn't even fully know what keloid scars were), but as I re-watched the original film many times over as the years passed, watched Shin Godzilla just as many times, and did my research, I grew more aware of how truly faithful to the 1954 film this design was, and what other ways Godzilla represented nuclear tragedy other than simple movie tone.

So nowadays, I'm 100% a fan of a hideously scarred, burnt and disfigured Godzilla. Other than the shape of his body, the skin texture of Godzilla is a perfect reimagining of his scarred body from the original film. He is keloid scarred to the MAX in Shin. The only design feature I'm not a fan of in this interpretation of Godzilla is the arms, though. They're okay, but I seriously wish he at least had larger arms, which would make him even more terrifying. Though that's not really a problem, because given how he's the most evolved creature on the planet, he could just lengthen them himself if circumstances called on it.

Speaking of which, I think Godzilla being an evolving threat is both a nice creative liberty that still keeps the traditional image of Godzilla intact without changing him in a 1998-esque way, AND it's a really clever callback to the original movie. From act one, the King of the Monsters starts out as a horrific, big-eyed cross between an eel shark and a Tyrannosaurus Rex, blindly stumbling about on underdeveloped legs while sliding along his belly, waving giant-ass gills that spill blood everywhere, but then grows functional arms and lengthens his legs for terrestrial locomotion, thus leaving behind his original aquatic lifestyle and ascending to a land-based reptile.

Refer back to Dr. Kyohei Yamane from the original movie:

"Approximately two million years ago, this Brontosaurus...and other dinosaurs were at their peak. Scientists call this the Jurassic Period. During the following geological period, the Cretaceous Period, a rare species of intermediate organism was evolving...from a marine reptile... … ...into a terrestrial animal."

I used to be against Godzilla's non-expressive facial look, thinking it painted Godzilla off to be a mindless, soulless zombie, but nowadays I look at it in a different light: he simply looks and behaves like an actual reptile. Reptiles are intelligent and are capable of displaying emotion and intent, but they lack facial muscles. They can't express to us what they're feeling facially- which makes them unpredictable. A fitting attribute for this version of Godzilla. I realized that it's not that Anno is saying Godzilla can't feel- he very visibly does in the atomic breath scene (and the song Who Will Know confirms that)- but simply that we humans can't see what he's feeling because he's just like any other reptile that expresses emotion through behavior rather than facial change. It makes Godzilla feel more real- I dare say even more so than he does in the MonsterVerse.

The CGI in Shin Godzilla is amazing. So good, in fact, that other than the obvious special effects in the destruction and atomic breath scenes, I thought that there was no CGI used in the scenes with Big G, only practical effects. So naturally, I was shocked to learn that not only was there zero practical effects used (minus the Kamata-Kun head prop that was done over with CGI), but literally ALL of the scenes with Godzilla were CGI that were done so beautifully that it tricked me and several other G-fans into thinking it was a suit. And to think all of this was achieved by a $15 million budget movie, versus a $150 million budget film by Legendary Pictures that, while it too had great CGI, didn't look anywhere near as real.

Some G-fans have complained that Godzilla retaining his classic Showa roar was lazy and more effort should've been put into making a new roar, but I honestly don't mind. It just shows that even many years later when new sound effects are made to take the place of the old ones, the progenitors still can't be outdone.

The music by Shiro Sagisu is incredible, and is one of my favorite soundtracks for any Godzilla film. Persecution of the Masses and Who Will Know are very fitting for the respective scenes they are played at, and I still listen to them nonstop today. "Black Angels", "Taba Strategy" and "Only Defeat is No Option" send tense shivers down my spine every time, and it only adds to the power when those scores are played during the fantastic scene of Godzilla battling the Japanese Military on his way to the center of Tokyo. The military personnel are all shouting orders to one another as they race against time to keep the fight up; the tanks, helicopters and fighter jets unload literally everything on Godzilla to stop him; explosions are going off nonstop; the King of the Monsters just marches through the onslaught like its nothing; the choir is screaming to its full musical intensity in an apocalyptic, almost gothic fashion. It's as epic yet intense as it possibly gets.

Plus, the re-use of Ifukube's old masterpieces from the Showa Era only elevate this movie for me, and give me a powerful sense of nostalgia that makes me want to cry tears of joy every time. When someone mentions "Godzilla" to me, it's not uncommon for the scene where Big G stomps through Kamakura unopposed while "Godzilla's Resurrection" from 'King Kong vs Godzilla' plays in the background, to pop up in my head.

I don't even need to discuss how mind-blowingly jaw-dropping the atomic breath scene is.

The ending is perfect. The last eerie shot of Godzilla's tail, with that army of Xeno-ZombieZillas crawling out of his tail can be interpreted as many things, physically and metaphorically. I've heard many different theories, and even have a few of my own. In short, it's another beautiful example of leaving something open to interpretation, to keep people guessing and add a layer of mystery. Less is more, if you will.



Shin Godzilla is a more unique and masterful film of the franchise than it has any right to be. I'm completely down for the idea for a sequel- I'm certain that there are writers and directors out there that can pull it off- but I'll say this: I and other people who loved this movie as much as I did have VERY high expectations for such a sequel, because if one is ever made, whoever is writing it has some shoes as big as Godzilla's feet to fill.

I have said all that there is needed to be said on how I feel about this movie. In short, Shin Godzilla is one of the best things that has ever happened to this franchise. Period. Long Live the King.

10/10, no contest.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Shin loses some points for the Engrish and the lousy American actors but they're more than made up for everything it does right. Still it drags the movie down from being great to being really good.

[Terasawa]

Shin loses some points for the Engrish and the lousy American actors but they're more than made up for everything it does right. Still it drags the movie down from being great to being really good.

I understand this but I find I can forgive it. These movies are primarily made for people who don’t speak English, so “bad” performances aren’t going to be so easily noticed by the intended audience. Satomi Ishihara’s English is not good, but I bet only English speakers would be so aware of that. It’s unfortunate that they couldn’t find someone whose English is as good as her Japanese but is it really her fault? If anything, Anno’s to blame for writing a character who’s basically impossible to cast: a nisei Japanese with American political aspirations, who can speak both languages fluently, who is a big enough name for the marquee, and who can act. It has to do well in Japan before it can do anything overseas, so I’d say they did the best they could.

Similarly, how many good Caucasian actors are there in Japan? Most of the performances are fine, and I don’t think any of those roles are big enough that they’re distracting for more than a scene. Again, considering the audience the movie was made for, there’s nothing wrong here.

The only other option would be to get rid of the English dialogue and performers, but that would so fundamentally alter the story they were telling that it wouldn’t be worth it.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Yeah I know. When the King of the Monsters cut of Gojira was released in Japan they found it unintentionally funny because Martin's liaison in the film wasn't actually translating the Japanese dialogue correctly.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Similarly, how many good Caucasian actors are there in Japan? Most of the performances are fine, and I don’t think any of those roles are big enough that they’re distracting for more than a scene. Again, considering the audience the movie was made for, there’s nothing wrong here.

The only other option would be to get rid of the English dialogue and performers, but that would so fundamentally alter the story they were telling that it wouldn’t be worth it.

Hey man, I'm ready, willing and able!


Anyways, I've stated this before, but to a Japanese audience, Ishihara sounds completely fluent. Like, I don't think people realize how bad Japanese people are at learning English. Isn't me trying to demean people trying, it's my profession, but damn I wish there were more people who could speak at the level in the film, even if heavily accented.

Also just wanted to add I pretty much agree with everything ShinGojira14 said.

[shadowgigan]

I cant stop listening to "Early Morning From Tokyo". Something about that scene and the music it contains seems eerily reflective of the modern world. Life goes on no matter what, despite the pandemonium.

[LegendZilla]

If Anno made this movie during one of his depressions, the characters would be a lot more like those seen in the Anime trilogy.

[tbeasley]

Speaking of which, I think Godzilla being an evolving threat is both a nice creative liberty that still keeps the traditional image of Godzilla intact without changing him in a 1998-esque way, AND it's a really clever callback to the original movie. From act one, the King of the Monsters starts out as a horrific, big-eyed cross between an eel shark and a Tyrannosaurus Rex, blindly stumbling about on underdeveloped legs while sliding along his belly, waving giant-ass gills that spill blood everywhere, but then grows functional arms and lengthens his legs for terrestrial locomotion, thus leaving behind his original aquatic lifestyle and ascending to a land-based reptile.

Refer back to Dr. Kyohei Yamane from the original movie:

"Approximately two million years ago, this Brontosaurus...and other dinosaurs were at their peak. Scientists call this the Jurassic Period. During the following geological period, the Cretaceous Period, a rare species of intermediate organism was evolving...from a marine reptile... … ...into a terrestrial animal."

Yeah I always thought that was a nice reworking of that idea, that and his regeneration/cells now posing a threat by dividing out of control (also a throwback of sorts to Dogora, Frankenstein and the Gargantuas). Overall it's a cool body horror reworking akin to Carpenter's The Thing or Cronenberg's The Fly. (Also reminds me a bit of Junji Ito's Tomie).

Having multiple forms also allowed them to sell more toys too!

[LegendZilla]

^Is it okay to think that a similar approach for Ghidorah would be more appropriate than Godzilla? i.e the constantly evolving/mutating angle as seen with Shin.

[tbeasley]

^ I'm happy with the Shin Ghidorah they came up with, even if it was only for a ride.

Another topic - I've noticed this before and don't know if it's ever been pointed out, but on the tip of Kamata-kun's tail there are two dots. You can see them in the lower corner here -

http://halcyonrealms.com/books/art-shin ... ew-part-2/

Now don't tell me those are meant to be beady little eyes. I've seen them in other images as well.

I wonder what was the inspiration behind the added emphasis on Shin's tail, with it constantly floating about, not to mention the idea of the 'spare head' and tail beam. It just seems like such an odd concept that could've backfired immensely but has (for the most part) been accepted.

(Although I must admit, I might prefer the anime version's tail-swipe attack.)

Plus, why do the tail humanoids sprout from there and not anywhere else... ?

[GigaBowserG]

Another topic - I've noticed this before and don't know if it's ever been pointed out, but on the tip of Kamata-kun's tail there are two dots. You can see them in the lower corner here -
[]https://i0.wp.com/halcyonrealms.com/blo ... =750%2C500[/]
http://halcyonrealms.com/books/art-shin ... ew-part-2/

Now don't tell me those are meant to be beady little eyes. I've seen them in other images as well.

I wonder what was the inspiration behind the added emphasis on Shin's tail, with it constantly floating about, not to mention the idea of the 'spare head' and tail beam. It just seems like such an odd concept that could've backfired immensely but has (for the most part) been accepted.

I always figured those were tiny eyes. Noticed those on the Art Spirits figure review that was posted recently on the main site, too (6th "close up" picture in the bonus gallery). The Art of Shin Godzilla images you shared makes mention of the little tail "eye spots" as well.

[Jetty_Jags]

reminds me of the photo-receptors (eye like organs) on planaria.

[Spuro]

That fucking beam-tail caused me to legit burst out laughing the first time I saw it. Thankfully it was a leak and not in the theater.

[mikelcho]

I always liked the way that, in almost every Godzilla film (not just Shin Godzilla), Godzilla's tail is always twitching and moving around like a cat's tail. It's so much different from all the other dinosaur films made back in the day where the dinosaurs dragged their tails on the ground and they didn't do much of anything with them.

I think the only film where Godzilla's tail was dragged was Godzilla (1954). Did it also drag in Godzilla Raids Again? It's been so long since I've seen that film, so I can't remember one way or the other.

Other two-legged monsters, like Gorosaurus and King Ghidorah, did the same thing with their tails like Godzilla did, but what about the four-legged ones like Anguirus, Varan and Baragon; did their tails ever drag or not? The only exception to the two-legged ones that I know of was the 1960s version of Minilla; were there, or have there been, any others?

[Jetty_Jags]

I always liked the way that, in almost every Godzilla film (not just Shin Godzilla), Godzilla's tail is always twitching and moving around like a cat's tail.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this, especially with shin godzilla. Honestly, for me at least gave him a good amount of personality (I know that is kind of controversial). Although looking back, especially through the Heisei era, Godzilla has often had a lot of feline qualities.

[mikelcho]

I always liked the way that, in almost every Godzilla film (not just Shin Godzilla), Godzilla's tail is always twitching and moving around like a cat's tail.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this, especially with shin godzilla. Honestly, for me at least gave him a good amount of personality (I know that is kind of controversial). Although looking back, especially through the Heisei era, Godzilla has often had a lot of feline qualities.

I'm glad someone else noticed this; I've always seen it since I was a kid!

As for your other statement, JJ, I think you're right. Ever since from at least Godzilla vs. Biollante to at least Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, when his appearance was (more or less) constant, the features I've heard others say were feline-looking in Godzilla were his eyes and (I think) his muzzle. Is there anything else I've left out here?

[Jetty_Jags]

If by nose you include the general maw area, I totally agree. And to some extent heisei hand gestures kind of remind me of cats kneading.