Toho Kingdom

_JNavs_ wrote:While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told Serizawa the situation as soon as he shows her the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean, at that point Godzilla had already thrashed the area once or twice. He would've known the severity and likely took care of the situation since after all, Serizawa waited his whole life for the opportunity to test his creation to save mankind. I don't think she had to break the promise, tell her boyfriend, then break into Serizawas lab.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting miko telling Serizawa about her relationship with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

eabaker wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told Serizawa the situation as soon as he shows her the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean, at that point Godzilla had already thrashed the area once or twice. He would've known the severity and likely took care of the situation since after all, Serizawa waited his whole life for the opportunity to test his creation to save mankind. I don't think she had to break the promise, tell her boyfriend, then break into Serizawas lab.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting miko telling Serizawa about her relationship with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

No lol, actually throughout the entire film I barely felt a "love triangle", beyond Serizawa treating Emiko like a little sister and Emiko treating Serizawa "like her older brother".

I'm saying she knew what kind of damage the Oxygen Destroyer caused when Serizawa trusted her with the promise, and she also knew Godzilla was wrecking havoc during that time, so why not just ask Serizawa for help initially? Instead of going to Ogata first, breaking Serizawa's promise by telling him of the OD, then the 2 of them head back to Serizawa's and kinda "force" their way inside and basically make him realize he needs to help Japan.

_JNavs_ wrote:

eabaker wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told Serizawa the situation as soon as he shows her the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean, at that point Godzilla had already thrashed the area once or twice. He would've known the severity and likely took care of the situation since after all, Serizawa waited his whole life for the opportunity to test his creation to save mankind. I don't think she had to break the promise, tell her boyfriend, then break into Serizawas lab.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting miko telling Serizawa about her relationship with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

No lol, actually throughout the entire film I barely felt a "love triangle", beyond Serizawa treating Emiko like a little sister and Emiko treating Serizawa "like her older brother".

I'm saying she knew what kind of damage the Oxygen Destroyer caused when Serizawa trusted her with the promise, and she also knew Godzilla was wrecking havoc during that time, so why not just ask Serizawa for help initially? Instead of going to Ogata first, breaking Serizawa's promise by telling him of the OD, then the 2 of them head back to Serizawa's and kinda "force" their way inside and basically make him realize he needs to help Japan.

It's not like Serizawa didn't know about the damage Godzilla was doing initially, though. He knew he could have used the OD at any time; what convinces him, ultimately, is a combination of things, including seeing that this was a matter powerful enough to make Emiko break her promise, seeing the harm that he himself had done to Ogata in trying to protect his secret, seeing the full extent of the damage done to Tokyo, and hearing the sincerity of the prayer for peace.

eabaker wrote: It's not like Serizawa didn't know about the damage Godzilla was doing initially, though. He knew he could have used the OD at any time; what convinces him, ultimately, is a combination of things, including seeing that this was a matter powerful enough to make Emiko break her promise, seeing the harm that he himself had done to Ogata in trying to protect his secret, seeing the full extent of the damage done to Tokyo, and hearing the sincerity of the prayer for peace.

Oh that's a good way of looking at it, an ultimate culmination of all these aspects coming to a head, which is why Serizawa breaks down and realizes what he has to do.

I didn't sense much of a friendship between him and Ogata, except when he helped him up after injuring him. But once Serizawa realized the risks he was willing to take to protect his secret, he likely realized it was time for him to take matters into his own hands.

[quote="_JNavs_"]While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

No lol, actually throughout the entire film I barely felt a "love triangle", beyond Serizawa treating Emiko like a little sister and Emiko treating Serizawa "like her older brother"[/quote="_JNavs_"]
You referred, not in this quote, as Serizawa as Emiko`s boyfriend, which isnt really appropriate.

Bear in mind that this is a Japanese film from the 1950`s. Most likely, the marriage was arranged, because both Mafune and Serizawa were scientists. It would be believable to think that the possibility is that they never had true feelings for each other, but Emiko being with Serizawa was respected out of loyalty. From a japanese context of that time period the entire romance is completely believable and just as scandalous. Emiko telling Ogata about the Oxygen Destroyer isn`t just her revealing a big secret, but it`s also in a way of choosing between the two of them. That`s why she doesn`t tell him instantly. In addition, remember that her own father, wants to study Godzilla, not kill him. Emiko is being faithful to both Serizawa but also her father. Don`t forget, that while yes Godzilla destroyed countless ships and attacked a few times, he really doesn`t go on a full rampage until the final sequence. It is somewhat believable that at that moment, killing Godzilla could have been through traditional means. Remember also the destructive force of the Oxygen Destroyer, and most likely when Serizawa showed her she fully realized how dangerous it was as well.

Another, but equally valid path to view it, that intertwines with the subtext of the film, is the backdrop of WW2. It`s somewhat subtle, only addressed in a line or two, but Serizawa was definitely a WW2 veteran fighting for the Imperial Japanese army. He most likely lost an eye in the war, which leads him to being a very damaged character both physically and mentally. While obviously all war is bad and psychologically destructive, it must be especially so for those on the losing side. Many veterans of `lost wars` are viewed by society shamefully in some cases. Serizawa is dealing with a lot, and it makes a lot of sense why he holed himself in his lab and basically made super weapons. While I`m not an exact expert on Japan and WW2, I`m pretty sure many people were drafted and forced to fight. While of course Post-WW2 Japan is very different then Imperial Japan, its very believable that Serizawa would also hesitate to just save Japan, and part of the catalyst that makes him change his mind, is the fact that he sees the young Japanese youth sing and remain hopeful. The students in that moment, are the cause to fight for, and the hopes that Japan can move beyond WW2. Part of Serizawa`s sacrifice at the end is also him removing any WW2 Zeitgeists from the equation, in hopes that Japan can progress. Its definitely possible that prior to deployment Serizawa was a passionate and intelligent individual who loved Emiko before the war as well.

Everything, within a cultural and time specific context, clicks into place so well.

I first saw it expecting it to be like the clips I'd seen of later Showa period films. I was very surprised, and emotionally moved by the ending. It really is a beautiful movie.

Is anyone doing anything for the 65th anniversary on either the 27th of October (65th anniversary of the 1st showing in Nagoya) or November 3rd (the 65th anniversary of Gojira being released nationwide)?

On the 27th I plan on watching the Classic Media DVD and on the 3rd I plan on watching the original film in the Criterion Collection Blu-Ray boxset. I might watch some more Godzilla movies as well. Maybe 3 from each era?

Gojira-Fan wrote:Is anyone doing anything for the 65th anniversary on either the 27th of October (65th anniversary of the 1st showing in Nagoya) or November 3rd (the 65th anniversary of Gojira being released nationwide)?

On the 27th I plan on watching the Classic Media DVD and on the 3rd I plan on watching the original film in the Criterion Collection Blu-Ray boxset. I might watch some more Godzilla movies as well. Maybe 3 from each era?

I don’t mean to brag, but I’m going to a screening of three Godzilla films in Tokyo tomorrow night that goes into the 3rd, and then getting some special limited run Godzilla merch at the Godzilla store in Tokyo.

I finally saw the original 1954 version last night on Halloween. WOW. Talk about grim and dark. I was prepared to see this movie since I saw the 1956 Americanized version a few times. I was didn't think it would be quite as grim as I thought. Dark, grim, minimalistic, yet it was able to hit on many issues quite well.

I actually walked away from seeing the movie being more convinced then ever that the Tokyo firebombing raid played just as much of a role as the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki via the fire department trying and failing to put out the fires that Godzilla started.

I'm tossing around the idea of watching Mothra vs. Godzilla, specifically the Japanese version, which I've never seen. I work that night, though, so I may or may not get time. We'll see.

Rhedosaurus wrote:I finally saw the original 1954 version last night on Halloween. WOW. Talk about grim and dark. I was prepared to see this movie since I saw the 1956 Americanized version a few times. I was didn't think it would be quite as grim as I thought. Dark, grim, minimalistic, yet it was able to hit on many issues quite well.

I actually walked away from seeing the movie being more convinced then ever that the Tokyo firebombing raid played just as much of a role as the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki via the fire department trying and failing to put out the fires that Godzilla started.

I hate to be that guy, but I’m often surprised how many people haven’t seen the original cut of this. While the King of the Monsters version is historically significant, and has a lot of time and effort put into making it, I always see the Japanese version as the definitive version, and sort of “required viewing”. I think it’s legitimately one of the greatest films ever made, outside my own Godzilla fan thoughts.

When I got the classic media version in 2008 or so (maybe later or maybe earlier) I was absolutely blown away by it and continually have been.

Here's an early version of the film that seems to take more of a horror route. Godzilla is also said to have floppy ears like an elephant in this version. Comes from THE BIG BOOK OF JAPANESE GIANT MONSTER MOVIES: THE LOST FILMS 123-125 and 251-253

Glad this draft wasn’t used. It reads way too much like a standard b movie(it would appear Godzilla runs away) and the ending is far too overt. The elephant ear thing is interesting, and just reinforces that there were many pre-54 Godzilla designs that we will never see.

This film completely immerses me in 1950's Japan, like a glimpse into another world. The way people were living back then seems almost inconceivable today, especially the Odo Island Villagers. Its incredible to see not only how far technology has progressed, but culture as well.

An all around perfect movie. 10/10

That draft has some interesting ideas, but the Gojira we got paints Godzilla as a more dangerous creature. A monster that keeps returning to the sea whenever confronted doesn't sound like a threat requiring something as terrible as the OD.

I just realized something.

Was Professor Yamane wrong in this movie?

I say this because his outburst about wishing Godzilla not be killed is immediately followed up with the scene that is the start of Godzilla's second rampage.

So is the story flow and edit here implying that Yamane's point of view is wrong? That leaving Godzilla alone would lead to destruction.

I just saw Godzilla and I thought it was pretty good, I like the story and the characters were solid. My favorite character is probably Dr Serizawa because he wanted to made something that would benefit society but also scared that the discovery can also can make humanity extinct so he’s destroyed all the Notes that he created and sacrifice himself for the better good of man

Thatguy4683 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:43 pm I just saw Godzilla and I thought it was pretty good, I like the story and the characters were solid. My favorite character is probably Dr Serizawa because he wanted to made something that would benefit society but also scared that the discovery can also can make humanity extinct so he’s destroyed all the Notes that he created and sacrifice himself for the better good of man

Shameless plug

Episode 5 of "G-Force: A Kaiju Podcast," the first part of the two-parter on favorite characters in kaiju movies, includes a few minutes on what makes Serizawa such a great character.

Here's a link to the episode on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0479350911

eabaker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 am

Thatguy4683 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:43 pm I just saw Godzilla and I thought it was pretty good, I like the story and the characters were solid. My favorite character is probably Dr Serizawa because he wanted to made something that would benefit society but also scared that the discovery can also can make humanity extinct so he’s destroyed all the Notes that he created and sacrifice himself for the better good of man

Shameless plug

Episode 5 of "G-Force: A Kaiju Podcast," the first part of the two-parter on favorite characters in kaiju movies, includes a few minutes on what makes Serizawa such a great character.

Here's a link to the episode on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0479350911

Thanks