Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby tbeasley » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:22 pm

Terasawa wrote:I don't think it reads that way on the Criterion site. It sounds like the author is saying the nickname "Goji" -not the name "Gojira"- came from the sfx technicians. Basically it's a pun. Besides it wouldn't make sense for the monster to go unnamed until sfx shooting had been underway for a while, and that's the only way the crew would have even known they'd be pulling all-nighters.

Yeah that's how it reads to me.

The special-effects crew nicknamed Godzilla “Goji”—part of the Japanese phrase gozen goji, or “five a.m.”—because they consistently toiled through the night and daybreak to pull off their cinematic magic.


Added in 2 hours 47 minutes 20 seconds:
Genuine question here, maybe someone can fill us in...

We all hear about how Godzilla's dark, rocky skin texture was inspired by the keloid scarring of A-bomb survivors, but is that really the case or something people picked up on later pertaining to the 54 film, like the idea of him being a vessel for the victims of Japan's wartime atrocities (an interpretation as we know that would go on to inspire GMK).

I ask this cause if you look at the nicknames they gave the original maquettes it goes Scaly, Warty, then Alligator for the final design. Were they really thinking H-bomb survivor for the monster or just an interesting, crocodilian skin texture?

This also pertains a little bit to Shin Godzilla... people were again quick to point out the emphasis on keloid scarring but I've read Anno and his designers were inspired by the bizarre, bumpy and rotting texture of goya.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:19 am

To address the 5am thing:
Yeah, go 五/ご is five. Ji 時/じ is hour. So yeah GOJI is fifth hour.

But are there sources? No. All the other stuff on the list can generally be found online, I will say the fact that the ocean is a matte painting kinda surprised me, but for that particularly one it could be something that's just a coudience that you could easily bullshit a story for.

In terms of the 1954 being remincent of keloid and burning victims, I don't actually know 100% but the scenario is very different than what happened with Shin g. Shin G was people acting as thought godzilla always has to be directly tied to the original and a symbol for nuclear stuff and over analyzed it. Shin G was never hit by a nuke.

With G54 it was stated that the monster/s were awakened by nuclear testing, and it's been shown in supplementary materials (which you can doubt their cannoncity) that originally Godzilla had smoother skin. It's not really a stretch or a reach unlike the Shin G thing.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby tbeasley » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:59 am

I'm rereading Japan's Favorite Mon-Star before I get to the Ishiro Honda biography and the 5am bit is in there -
They [Tsuburaya and his men] pulled many all-nighters, finally wrapping up the shoot at daybreak, and some crew members joked that Gojira's name rhymed with goji, which means '5am' in Japanese.
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Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby LegendZilla » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:45 pm

Hey guys, first of all I want to say season’s greetings to all of you and that Christmas Day meets your expectations. Anyways onto the point.

As I stated before, the original 1954 Godzilla film is a classic and rightfully so. However, just like every single movie ever made has one thing in common, that being flaws. As we all know, it is impossible for any movie bad or good to be without its share of flaws. Some are just minor, while others are are large enough to hinder the overall quality of any film completely.

Similar to how I created a thread dedicated to pointing out positive things about the Heisei films, I’d like to create once for pointing out flaws of the original film as the title suggests. Here are some of the gripes I have that get on my nerves on varying levels :

1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.
2. Strings are sometimes visible
3. The Godzilla puppet they use for close-ups make it look like he is afflicted with dwarfism.
4. Last but not least my biggest complaint is how the writers decided to insult our intelligence by stating that th Jurassic was 2 million years ago when it was actually 200 million.

I hope that none of you take this thread the wrong way and please feel free to share what minor issues you have with the film. Happy Holidays. ;)
Last edited by LegendZilla on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby Terasawa » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:50 pm

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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby Maritonic » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:33 am

LegendZilla wrote:Hey guys, first of all I want to say season’s greetings to all of you and that Christmas Day meets your expectations. Anyways onto the point.

As I stated before, the original 1954 Godzilla film is a classic and rightfully so. However, just like every single movie ever made has one thing in common, that being flaws. As we all know, it is impossible for any movie bad or good to be without its share of flaws. Some are just minor, while others are are large enough to hinder the overall quality of any film completely.

Similar to how I created a thread dedicated to pointing out positive things about the Heisei films, I’d like to create once for pointing out flaws of the original film as the title suggests. Here are some of the gripes I have that get on my nerves on varying levels :

1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.
2. Strings are sometimes visible
3. The Godzilla puppet they use for close-ups make it look like he is afflicted with dwarfism.
4. Last but not least my biggest complaint is how the writers decided to insult our intelligence by stating that th Jurassic was 2 million years ago when it was actually 200 million.

I hope that none of you take this thread the wrong way and please feel free to share what minor issues you have with the film. Happy Holidays. ;)


But....why?

Maybe it's me, but I don't get the point in sitting here naming the flaws of a film you yourself said is considered a classic and rightfully so. What's the point?

Having a conversation and naming the flaws as part of your criticism I can understand. But literally creating a thread (which has now been merged) simply to list all it's flaws is lost on me.
Last edited by Maritonic on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:34 pm

Oh no, flaws! The only thing that can save us is a remake! ;) I'm just yanking your chain- no harm intended.

I'll say the whole 'Godzilla retreating from the jets' is more so because of the limitations of pulling such a shot of Godzilla blasting them out the sky. Although, they could of just switched between shots of the puppet firing and the jets exploding; perhaps that wasn't the point at all. It showed how hopless the military was. I mean Godzilla was already leaving the bay when they attacked.
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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby Maritonic » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:53 pm

LegendZilla wrote:1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.
2. Strings are sometimes visible
3. The Godzilla puppet they use for close-ups make it look like he is afflicted with dwarfism.
4. Last but not least my biggest complaint is how the writers decided to insult our intelligence by stating that th Jurassic was 2 million years ago when it was actually 200 million.)



Also, I'm curious what your gripe is about the jet fighters. Godzilla is seen walking out of Tokyo, into the bay, when the fighters arrive. The fighters descend on his back. Aside from some dialogue from some onlookers, desperate for hope, I see no indication that he was "scared off" by the fighters. This was something I saw you say in your remake-pitch and I still don't get it. He swats at them like flies, it's not like he cowers away.

And yes, strings are visible. Context of the times and film making. You have to take things with a grain of salt and accept that there is only so much that can be done. It's an older film. It's part of it's charm. This goes for the puppet as well. It's certainly different looking, but again, it's an older film.

I'm not sure where this expectation of perfection comes from in this fanbase. I've NEVER watched Gojira and gone "MAN look how bad that puppet looks". You have to understand and appreciate the time the film was made in. Seeing strings doesn't change the integrity of the film at hand. It's a film. It was made by humans. Humans aren't perfect, therefore the films won't be. I think I've only seen one perfect film in my life, and if special effect imperfection is going to take away from that, you'd not consider it perfect.

Please make no mistake; this isn't an attack. Merely voicing that these things you've listed as flaws are, in my opinion, not flaws but part of what gives the film a life of its own, as opposed to our societies idea today that things need to be "perfect".

When it comes to the complaint about the Jurassic period, that's something different. I'm not sure what the scientific knowledge was at the time, as when Jurassic Park came out we believed dinosaurs to be scaly lizards and now we know they were feathered so science advances, but I have no idea what Japan's knowledge of the Jurassic period was like.
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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby Godzillian » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:03 pm

LegendZilla wrote:1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.
2. Strings are sometimes visible
3. The Godzilla puppet they use for close-ups make it look like he is afflicted with dwarfism.
4. Last but not least my biggest complaint is how the writers decided to insult our intelligence by stating that th Jurassic was 2 million years ago when it was actually 200 million.


1. Godzilla was already leaving the city, that's like saying the raptor scared off the t-rex in JW
2. Welcome to practical effects, this happens sometimes
3. None of the puppets used in Toho films match their suits perfectly
4. Movie makers don't worry about scientific fact, what a surprise!
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby MaxRebo320 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:54 pm

You could certainly snicker at the "2 million years" line, but I don't understand how it in any way ruins the movie. You can just say it was a flub on Yamane's part.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby LegendZilla » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:54 am

^Was I saying I was trying to completely rip the movie a new one just for a few flaws?
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby Maritonic » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:13 am

You literally created a thread to point out the flaws of the movie. So...yeah, kind of.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:57 am

lmao what a backfire
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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:55 pm

LegendZilla wrote:
1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.

Ummm? You ARE aware Godzilla was already leaving out to sea when those jets showed up, right? Like, it's kinda hard to miss...
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby LegendZilla » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:32 am

PitchBlackProgress wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:
1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.

Ummm? You ARE aware Godzilla was already leaving out to sea when those jets showed up, right? Like, it's kinda hard to miss...


Is that officially confirmed?
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Re: Flaws of Godzilla 1954

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:38 am

LegendZilla wrote:
PitchBlackProgress wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:
1. Godzilla gets scared off by Fighter Jets of all things.

Ummm? You ARE aware Godzilla was already leaving out to sea when those jets showed up, right? Like, it's kinda hard to miss...


Is that officially confirmed?

What kind of question is that :lol:
Yeah, if you actually watch the film.. :facepalm:
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:45 am

To add, most of the "flaws" you mentioned aren't really flaws. One true flaw I can think of is when the television magically turns on after the fight between Serizawa and Ogata.

Who cares if a film as simple effect flaws and incorrect facts*- if we enjoyed a film then that's all that matters.

* Although if it was a historical film, then that would be different. Why am I always contradicting myself?
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby eabaker » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:04 am

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:To add, most of the "flaws" you mentioned aren't really flaws. One true flaw I can think of is when the television magically turns on after the fight between Serizawa and Ogata.[/size]


I wouldn't call that a flaw, just a narrative shortcut.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby Gojira-Fan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:55 pm

I really don't think there is anything I can add to the dialogue about this film that hasn't already been said multiple times from different sources.

This film is a classic for a reason. Not only did it create kaiju eiga as we know it, it also addressed grave political themes that I'm sure anyone reading this knows about. It doesn't simply state that Godzilla is a metaphor for nuclear weapons, it tackles the issue of nuclear weapons in a nuanced way that intersects with international diplomacy, World War II and Post-War Japan, scientific responsibility among many other themes I cannot think of right now.

It's probably the film that most ideally captures Ishiro Honda's artistic vision.

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The massive Godzilla 54 flaw nobody mentions

Postby Jeff-Goldblum1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 am

Godzilla, the creature from 2 million years ago in the Jurassic Period.

As described by Professor Yamane.

Nice research.


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