Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

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eabaker
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby eabaker » Sun May 19, 2019 9:21 am

_JNavs_ wrote:While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told Serizawa the situation as soon as he shows her the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean, at that point Godzilla had already thrashed the area once or twice. He would've known the severity and likely took care of the situation since after all, Serizawa waited his whole life for the opportunity to test his creation to save mankind. I don't think she had to break the promise, tell her boyfriend, then break into Serizawas lab.


I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting miko telling Serizawa about her relationship with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun May 19, 2019 9:30 am

eabaker wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told Serizawa the situation as soon as he shows her the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean, at that point Godzilla had already thrashed the area once or twice. He would've known the severity and likely took care of the situation since after all, Serizawa waited his whole life for the opportunity to test his creation to save mankind. I don't think she had to break the promise, tell her boyfriend, then break into Serizawas lab.


I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting miko telling Serizawa about her relationship with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

No lol, actually throughout the entire film I barely felt a "love triangle", beyond Serizawa treating Emiko like a little sister and Emiko treating Serizawa "like her older brother".

I'm saying she knew what kind of damage the Oxygen Destroyer caused when Serizawa trusted her with the promise, and she also knew Godzilla was wrecking havoc during that time, so why not just ask Serizawa for help initially? Instead of going to Ogata first, breaking Serizawa's promise by telling him of the OD, then the 2 of them head back to Serizawa's and kinda "force" their way inside and basically make him realize he needs to help Japan.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sun May 19, 2019 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby eabaker » Sun May 19, 2019 9:55 am

_JNavs_ wrote:
eabaker wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told Serizawa the situation as soon as he shows her the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean, at that point Godzilla had already thrashed the area once or twice. He would've known the severity and likely took care of the situation since after all, Serizawa waited his whole life for the opportunity to test his creation to save mankind. I don't think she had to break the promise, tell her boyfriend, then break into Serizawas lab.


I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting miko telling Serizawa about her relationship with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

No lol, actually throughout the entire film I barely felt a "love triangle", beyond Serizawa treating Emiko like a little sister and Emiko treating Serizawa "like her older brother".

I'm saying she knew what kind of damage the Oxygen Destroyer caused when Serizawa trusted her with the promise, and she also knew Godzilla was wrecking havoc during that time, so why not just ask Serizawa for help initially? Instead of going to Ogata first, breaking Serizawa's promise by telling him of the OD, then the 2 of them head back to Serizawa's and kinda "force" their way inside and basically make him realize he needs to help Japan.


It's not like Serizawa didn't know about the damage Godzilla was doing initially, though. He knew he could have used the OD at any time; what convinces him, ultimately, is a combination of things, including seeing that this was a matter powerful enough to make Emiko break her promise, seeing the harm that he himself had done to Ogata in trying to protect his secret, seeing the full extent of the damage done to Tokyo, and hearing the sincerity of the prayer for peace.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun May 19, 2019 10:02 am

eabaker wrote:It's not like Serizawa didn't know about the damage Godzilla was doing initially, though. He knew he could have used the OD at any time; what convinces him, ultimately, is a combination of things, including seeing that this was a matter powerful enough to make Emiko break her promise, seeing the harm that he himself had done to Ogata in trying to protect his secret, seeing the full extent of the damage done to Tokyo, and hearing the sincerity of the prayer for peace.

Oh that's a good way of looking at it, an ultimate culmination of all these aspects coming to a head, which is why Serizawa breaks down and realizes what he has to do.

I didn't sense much of a friendship between him and Ogata, except when he helped him up after injuring him. But once Serizawa realized the risks he was willing to take to protect his secret, he likely realized it was time for him to take matters into his own hands.
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Re: Talkback Thread #1: Godzilla (1954)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Mon May 20, 2019 8:45 pm

[quote="_JNavs_"]While she did have to ultimately break the promise, I feel she could've just told with Ogata earlier would have made Serizawa use the Oxygen Destroyer against Godzilla earlier? I don't see how that follows.

No lol, actually throughout the entire film I barely felt a "love triangle", beyond Serizawa treating Emiko like a little sister and Emiko treating Serizawa "like her older brother"[/quote="_JNavs_"]
You referred, not in this quote, as Serizawa as Emiko`s boyfriend, which isnt really appropriate.

Bear in mind that this is a Japanese film from the 1950`s. Most likely, the marriage was arranged, because both Mafune and Serizawa were scientists. It would be believable to think that the possibility is that they never had true feelings for each other, but Emiko being with Serizawa was respected out of loyalty. From a japanese context of that time period the entire romance is completely believable and just as scandalous. Emiko telling Ogata about the Oxygen Destroyer isn`t just her revealing a big secret, but it`s also in a way of choosing between the two of them. That`s why she doesn`t tell him instantly. In addition, remember that her own father, wants to study Godzilla, not kill him. Emiko is being faithful to both Serizawa but also her father. Don`t forget, that while yes Godzilla destroyed countless ships and attacked a few times, he really doesn`t go on a full rampage until the final sequence. It is somewhat believable that at that moment, killing Godzilla could have been through traditional means. Remember also the destructive force of the Oxygen Destroyer, and most likely when Serizawa showed her she fully realized how dangerous it was as well.

Another, but equally valid path to view it, that intertwines with the subtext of the film, is the backdrop of WW2. It`s somewhat subtle, only addressed in a line or two, but Serizawa was definitely a WW2 veteran fighting for the Imperial Japanese army. He most likely lost an eye in the war, which leads him to being a very damaged character both physically and mentally. While obviously all war is bad and psychologically destructive, it must be especially so for those on the losing side. Many veterans of `lost wars` are viewed by society shamefully in some cases. Serizawa is dealing with a lot, and it makes a lot of sense why he holed himself in his lab and basically made super weapons. While I`m not an exact expert on Japan and WW2, I`m pretty sure many people were drafted and forced to fight. While of course Post-WW2 Japan is very different then Imperial Japan, its very believable that Serizawa would also hesitate to just save Japan, and part of the catalyst that makes him change his mind, is the fact that he sees the young Japanese youth sing and remain hopeful. The students in that moment, are the cause to fight for, and the hopes that Japan can move beyond WW2. Part of Serizawa`s sacrifice at the end is also him removing any WW2 Zeitgeists from the equation, in hopes that Japan can progress. Its definitely possible that prior to deployment Serizawa was a passionate and intelligent individual who loved Emiko before the war as well.

Everything, within a cultural and time specific context, clicks into place so well.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon May 20, 2019 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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