Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)

[Maritonic]

So, can anyone provide more insight into my original question about Manda in that montage? Other than they had the footage of the monorail destruction? Mostly because I don't know if that's really an answer, given they also had footage of Gigan, Hedorah and possible even Gaira?

Not complaining about Manda's inclusion, I just always felt it was very weak comparatively to Rodan and Ghidorah.

[eabaker]

So, can anyone provide more insight into my original question about Manda in that montage? Other than they had the footage of the monorail destruction? Mostly because I don't know if that's really an answer, given they also had footage of Gigan, Hedorah and possible even Gaira?

Not complaining about Manda's inclusion, I just always felt it was very weak comparatively to Rodan and Ghidorah.

Always found Manda an odd choice, but, then, by that period in history, it also seems strange to have included Rodan, who by then was pretty solidly a "good guy" monster.

While, yes, they had lots of footage of other monsters wrecking cities, I'm hard-pressed to think of individual images of most of those monsters that would have been as dynamic looking as the shots they chose.

[Maritonic]

So, can anyone provide more insight into my original question about Manda in that montage? Other than they had the footage of the monorail destruction? Mostly because I don't know if that's really an answer, given they also had footage of Gigan, Hedorah and possible even Gaira?

Not complaining about Manda's inclusion, I just always felt it was very weak comparatively to Rodan and Ghidorah.

Always found Manda an odd choice, but, then, by that period in history, it also seems strange to have included Rodan, who by then was pretty solidly a "good guy" monster.

While, yes, they had lots of footage of other monsters wrecking cities, I'm hard-pressed to think of individual images of most of those monsters that would have been as dynamic looking as the shots they chose.

Agreed on Rodan, but the footage they use is great. I feel like they could have even used Mechagodzilla footage from the first film. I don't know, Manda just ALWAYS feels weird. I know the monorail is a cool shot but, Gigan next to a city in flames? Hedorah engulfing a smoke stack? Gaira destroying an airport? All feel far more fierce than bye bye monorail.

That's why I wasn't sure if there was some sort of behind-the-scenes reason I wasn't privy to.

[MaxRebo320]

Behind-the-scenes, I guess it's possible Manda's raid was used due to it being set in broad daylight (Like Ghidorah and Rodan's) and being the only really usable Godzilla-related monster (So no Gaira) that Honda had involvement with (So no Hedorah, as fitting as he would have been).

In-film, kind of surprised nobody's simply theorized that the Manda seen in DAM (Presumably different from the one in Atragon) attacked at some point prior to TOMG. Makes more sense than Katsura referencing the events of Atragon, anyways.

[Maritonic]

Behind-the-scenes, I guess it's possible Manda's raid was used due to it being set in broad daylight (Like Ghidorah and Rodan's) and being the only really usable Godzilla-related monster (So no Gaira) that Honda had involvement with (So no Hedorah, as fitting as he would have been).

In-film, kind of surprised nobody's simply theorized that the Manda seen in DAM (Presumably different from the one in Atragon) attacked at some point prior to TOMG. Makes more sense than Katsura referencing the events of Atragon, anyways.

A. It never even remotely fucking clicked that technically that scene doesn't canonically occur before Terror of Mechagodzilla. That scene bothers me 5 times more now.

B. That's an interesting theory that I also never considered.

[MaxRebo320]

Granted, it's still a little puzzling from an in-universe perspective when even if Manda attacked prior to TOMG, I doubt it did a whole lot of damage in comparison to say Hedorah, Gigan or even Gaira, but who knows, maybe Katsura was there when it happened.

Rodan's inclusion is maybe a bit weird too when you consider he was by that point a "good" monster, but considering there were Rodan attacks in 1956 and 196X that caused lots of destruction and took plenty of lives, I can certainly see much of mankind not taking too kindly to the winged beast.

[GojiDog]

I suspect that it was probably Honda's choice to use Manda since he was familiar with him, and Manda was included in the Godzilla series previously.

Gigan, Hedorah, Mechagodzilla, and various others would "work better", but Honda didn't direct movies including those monsters, so he probably didn't know what to pull from. But he knew Rodan, King Ghidorah, and Manda.

[LegendZilla]

^Honda likely felt that no Godzilla movie was truly canonical unless it was directed by him.

[UltramanGoji]

^Honda likely felt that no Godzilla movie was truly canonical unless it was directed by him.

Honda didn't give a shit one way or another.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

^Honda likely felt that no Godzilla movie was truly canonical unless it was directed by him.

We don't know what he felt..... plus I doubt he cared at this point in terms of canon. (If the canon was even talked about at all during the Showa Era).

[Terasawa]

If we’re gonna throw around wild guesses how’s this:

The Manda footage comes from DAM, where a lot of of the Rodan footage was pulled from. That’s a lot easier work for the editor than to pull out footage from Hedorah or Gigan; it’s not like they were popping a DVD in, there was a lot more manual work done for this 10-second sequence. I’m sure they were looking for shortcuts like this to save time and resources.

[szmigiel]

I could make a joke about how they wanted to continue to use as much DAM footage as possible, just to confuse canon and continuity debates among hardcore fans. DAM footage made it's way into all but 2 of the Champion Festival films. Most likely they choose scenes where the film quality and lighting matched up as best as possible.

This movie featured a disgraced scientist that was laughed out of his profession, because 15 years earlier he said he found a living dinosaur. That would of been 1960 after Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, and Varan all appeared if you are trying to make a constant Showa timeline and continuity. Not to mention all the monsters that appear in the next 5 years, you would think his theories would have been vindicated already. It is much easier to view all the Champion Festival films in a separate continuity. But that is harder for fans to do then trying to figure out how all the Champion Festival films fit in before DAM, and how the Moon returns after being destroyed by Gorath.

[Terasawa]

This movie featured a disgraced scientist that was laughed out of his profession, because 15 years earlier he said he found a living dinosaur.

That's not really why he was disgraced though.

Twenty years ago he was a top scientist, even more brilliant than the rest. He advanced too far for them and then, when they didn't understand him, they threw him out.

Dr. Mafune was a resident researcher here, specializing in biology. Early in his thirties, he published his theory of underwater exploration. The underwater ranch plan attracted worldwide attention. He began experiments researching complete control over animals, but the experiment was not quite successful. Then one day, he reported discovery of a dinosaur in the ocean bed off the Ogasawara Islands. The professor named that dinosaur Titanosaurus and announced that he would control it. That cost him his career as a scientist. It was just fifteen years ago that he quit this institution. Well, I would say he was fired.

Do humans have the right to have the power to control animals scientifically? Even now, I definitely disagree.

Mugal also asks Dr. Mafune to help with Mechagodzilla, "particularly with the whole problem of control."

It does get complicated concerning Ichinose, however, as he seems more interested in finding Titanosaurus than controlling it. But still, I think the idea was that, having found a dinosaur or not, Mafune was labeled a lunatic when he started trying to control other lifeforms. This is what makes it a tragedy when his revenge requires the spacemen to install his control device in his daughter.

Also, just a note: the two Professor Ota lines are from subtitles. The other lines are from the dubbed version and I didn't think they were significantly different than the subtitled dialogue.

[MaxRebo320]

It does get complicated concerning Ichinose, however, as he seems more interested in finding Titanosaurus than controlling it. But still, I think the idea was that, having found a dinosaur or not, Mafune was labeled a lunatic when he started trying to control other lifeforms. This is what makes it a tragedy when his revenge requires the spacemen to install his control device in his daughter.

I tend to view Ichinose being on a somewhat misguided journey, with him THINKING Titanosaurus was the reason for Mafune's reputation (And of course him being a marine biologist, an aquatic dinosaur would of course excite him greatly), when in actuality it was more the terrifying mind-controlling experiments.

[Mechagigan]

Canon was more flexible in the Showa days. In all honesty, I think the fact the movies tie together at all is more a result of coincidence and circumstance than anything. People didn't get to watch each installment one-after-another; there was no form of home video, after all. The Showa movies, thus, depend less on recurring logic than the Heisei or modern ones.

[TitanoGoji16]

Now I just have this hilarious mental image of Katsura's callbacks using more 'appropriate' monsters:

"Surely you don't mean you'd release the disaster monsters again. Like King Ghidrah..."

[Clip: Ghidorah blasting Tokyo apart.]

"...Mighty Gigan..."

[Clip: Gigan screeching in front of a burning Tokyo.]

"...And terrible Megalon."

[Clip: Megalon waving his arms like a spaz and bouncing around aimlessly in the countryside.]

[Maritonic]

Now I just have this hilarious mental image of Katsura's callbacks using more 'appropriate' monsters:

"Surely you don't mean you'd release the disaster monsters again. Like King Ghidrah..."

[Clip: Ghidorah blasting Tokyo apart.]

"...Mighty Gigan..."

[Clip: Gigan screeching in front of a burning Tokyo.]

"...And terrible Megalon."

[Clip: Megalon waving his arms like a spaz and bouncing around aimlessly in the countryside.]

Nah, Rodan was fine in my opinion. I know he's usually seen as an ally, but in his clips something was at least HAPPENING. Not just a monorail being taken down slooooooooowly.

But I see what other's are saying about the visual aesthetic and Honda's association with Manda.

But damn does that DAM plot hole bother the hell out of me.

[eabaker]

But damn does that DAM plot hole bother the hell out of me.

Just remember, that's not an image that the characters are seeing; it's a non-diegetic element to help the audience visualize what she's talking about. So, it's really no more of a plot hole than, say, the fact that you can watch a movie set in a period of time before motion picture cameras and film existed.

[Maritonic]

But damn does that DAM plot hole bother the hell out of me.

Just remember, that's not an image that the characters are seeing; it's a non-diegetic element to help the audience visualize what she's talking about. So, it's really no more of a plot hole than, say, the fact that you can watch a movie set in a period of time before motion picture cameras and film existed.

True, but if we're going to delve deeper, why is Manda to be feared? He wasn't even much of a threat to the Gotengo, in the grand scheme of things.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

True, but if we're going to delve deeper, why is Manda to be feared? He wasn't even much of a threat to the Gotengo, in the grand scheme of things.

You don't wanna be that one guy at the beach that gets eaten when the lifeguard or anyone isn't paying attention..... ONLY THE TERRIBLE MANDA DOES SUCH TERROR.