Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

I saw that in The Big Book of Japanese Monster Movies: The Lost Films ; its a pretty cool follow up.

Speaking of that book, is it any good?

Its excellent; a pretty good read with tons of info. (The best of the info is from the Showa Era )

[Terasawa]

This is one of my favorite Godzilla movies, but -unpopular opinion time- I don't like Akihiko Hirata's interpretation of the Mafune character. He's way too over the top here. I wish he'd played a much more reserved version of the character -preferably without the awful fright wig- or switched roles with someone.

Mafune is supposed to be a once-respected scientist who pushed the boundaries of what was acceptable before his peers finally threw him out of the OEI. Yes, he was isolated and planned revenge for 15 years, but I feel like the old mad scientist archetype is wrong for the character. I think Hirata would have been much better off playing Mafune as a bitter (but not crazy) middle-aged man* who had finally found a path to revenge through his alien benefactors. This would serve three purposes. One: Hirata wouldn't lose face as he does for playing it so broadly. Two: Maybe this way the audience could generate some sympathy for Mafune, as he was right about Titanosaurus and being able to control it. Three: Katsura's death and rebirth as an emotionless alien cyborg would be even more tragic.

[eabaker]

This is one of my favorite Godzilla movies, but -unpopular opinion time- I don't like Akihiko Hirata's interpretation of the Mafune character. He's way too over the top here. I wish he'd played a much more reserved version of the character -preferably without the awful fright wig- or switched roles with someone.

Mafune is supposed to be a once-respected scientist who pushed the boundaries of what was acceptable before his peers finally threw him out of the OEI. Yes, he was isolated and planned revenge for 15 years, but I feel like the old mad scientist archetype is wrong for the character. I think Hirata would have been much better off playing Mafune as a bitter (but not crazy) middle-aged man* who had finally found a path to revenge through his alien benefactors. This would serve three purposes. One: Hirata wouldn't lose face as he does for playing it so broadly. Two: Maybe this way the audience could generate some sympathy for Mafune, as he was right about Titanosaurus and being able to control it. Three: Katsura's death and rebirth as an emotionless alien cyborg would be even more tragic.

I also rank it among my favorites (and Hirata among my favorites of the series regulars), and I agree with everything you say here. Mafune could have been one of the most engaging, memorable characters of the later Showa era, but by far his most emotional moment in the movie is a series of sepia-tinted stills.

[Maritonic]

Alright so, chose to rewatch this instead of watching City on the Edge of Battle tonight and this was the very first time the irony of the disbelief in a dinosaur bothered me.

Still, this is definitely Top 10, possibly Top 5 for me.

Though, can anyone shed some light on this possibly? During Katsura's speech about Titanosaurus, she mentions how he'll join the likes of King Ghidorah, Rodan and Manda. My question is...why in the hell Manda? He destroys a bridge in Destroy All Monsters. That's about it, and the Gotengo but so? Why not Gigan or Hedorah? Hell, even Baragon in Destroy All Monsters at least he hits a monument.

Anyone got any behind the scenes knowledge into why they picked Manda for that?

[Spuro]

Though, can anyone shed some light on this possibly? During Katsura's speech about Titanosaurus, she mentions how he'll join the likes of King Ghidorah, Rodan and Manda. My question is...why in the hell Manda? He destroys a bridge in Destroy All Monsters. That's about it, and the Gotengo but so? Why not Gigan or Hedorah? Hell, even Baragon in Destroy All Monsters at least he hits a monument.

Anyone got any behind the scenes knowledge into why they picked Manda for that?

They probably chose monsters than had good stock footage of city destruction from the 60s. The vast majority of city destruction scenes in those days were from Godzilla, Rodan, and Ghidorah. There wasn't much else to choose. Gorosaurus' destruction scene lasts only a few seconds, King Kong was the property of Universal, Mothra was considered a benevolent monster, Varan was in black and white, Baragon only attacks a village, etc.

But Manda had a nice lengthily scene in Destroy All Monsters involving the monorail.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Though, can anyone shed some light on this possibly? During Katsura's speech about Titanosaurus, she mentions how he'll join the likes of King Ghidorah, Rodan and Manda. My question is...why in the hell Manda? He destroys a bridge in Destroy All Monsters. That's about it, and the Gotengo but so? Why not Gigan or Hedorah? Hell, even Baragon in Destroy All Monsters at least he hits a monument.

Anyone got any behind the scenes knowledge into why they picked Manda for that?

They probably chose monsters than had good stock footage of city destruction from the 60s. The vast majority of city destruction scenes in those days were from Godzilla, Rodan, and Ghidorah. There wasn't much else to choose. Gorosaurus' destruction scene lasts only a few seconds, King Kong was the property of Universal, Mothra was considered a benevolent monster, Varan was in black and white, Baragon only attacks a village, etc.

But Manda had a nice lengthily scene in Destroy All Monsters involving the monorail.

I actually just thought of another good reason. Thanks to Mu and the Xilliens, all three monsters are also ones who were controlled into attacking cities, which is especially relevant when you consider Katsura is conflicted about unleashing Titantosaurus.

Added in 2 minutes 48 seconds:
and before anyone says anything, yeah, I know Ghidorah would have done it anyway but the point still stands.

[LegendZilla]

This movie has IMHO the absolute greatest entrance of Godzilla in any movie.

[Maritonic]

Though, can anyone shed some light on this possibly? During Katsura's speech about Titanosaurus, she mentions how he'll join the likes of King Ghidorah, Rodan and Manda. My question is...why in the hell Manda? He destroys a bridge in Destroy All Monsters. That's about it, and the Gotengo but so? Why not Gigan or Hedorah? Hell, even Baragon in Destroy All Monsters at least he hits a monument.

Anyone got any behind the scenes knowledge into why they picked Manda for that?

They probably chose monsters than had good stock footage of city destruction from the 60s. The vast majority of city destruction scenes in those days were from Godzilla, Rodan, and Ghidorah. There wasn't much else to choose. Gorosaurus' destruction scene lasts only a few seconds, King Kong was the property of Universal, Mothra was considered a benevolent monster, Varan was in black and white, Baragon only attacks a village, etc.

But Manda had a nice lengthily scene in Destroy All Monsters involving the monorail.

Gigan and Hedorah definitely have longer and more impactful scenes than Manda. Same with Gaira, actually, with the airport.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

This movie has IMHO the absolute greatest entrance of Godzilla in any movie.

Agreed 100%.

[Maritonic]

This movie has IMHO the absolute greatest entrance of Godzilla in any movie.

Agreed 100%.

I love everything about Godzilla's personality in this. His entrance, his kicking the dirt off his shoulders, tossing Mechagodzilla's head aside, the angle at which they shot the suit giving his eyes that pissed off sort of look, but still making him heroic. This is arguably my favorite characterization of Godzilla from the 70's.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

This movie has IMHO the absolute greatest entrance of Godzilla in any movie.

Agreed 100%.

I love everything about Godzilla's personality in this. His entrance, his kicking the dirt off his shoulders, tossing Mechagodzilla's head aside, the angle at which they shot the suit giving his eyes that pissed off sort of look, but still making him heroic. This is arguably my favorite characterization of Godzilla from the 70's.

Again, agree 100%. Godzilla in this film is easily the best heroic Godzilla, right there with Legendary.

[GojiDog]

Anyone else get a Frank Miller Batman vibe from Godzilla's entrance? Its just so freaking awesome.

But yeah, Terror of MG is one of my personal favorites. Having Honda back in the director's chair seemed to class things up a bit, and it felt like a bit of a return to the Golden age in the 60s but still keeping Godzilla in the superhero role.

I often point to this movie as an example of how to have a compelling kaiju film with a heavy focus on the human or non-monster characters. Katsura and Dr. Mafune rank up there as two of the more interesting characters the franchise has ever produced.

I also kind of liked growing up with the heavily edited US version and then getting the unedited version on later DVD releases. In the edited cut, they made it look like "love broke the spell", Katsura was freed, and Mechagodzilla was left inactive. I guess that kind of works when you're a kid and you grow up on Disney movies. As I got older and I found the unedited version, it completely changed the ending for me, and it felt like I was watching the movie for the first time all over again.

[Maritonic]

Anyone else get a Frank Miller Batman vibe from Godzilla's entrance? Its just so freaking awesome.

You know, I never realized this, but you're actually right. The whole pissed off but heroic Godzilla thing kinda has a Batman vibe in general.

[Godzillian]

So I brought up in another thread that I find this film overrated and it got buried. I'll just list a few of the reasons I feel that way here
-extremely uneven special effects. We get some stellar shots especially of Titanosaurus and we also get a Titano and Mechag knee deep in cities
-rather boring characters, sure what they do is interesting but they have no personality
-Katsura is bland and we only really see her as the girl she was in a flashback
-Mafuna isn't all that sympathetic if anything he is the opposite
-Godzilla is basically an after thought in the film and feels more like he is in by obligation
-Mechag is also an after thought. There is no real problem with Titano being the focus, it just comes of as more its movie than one of the other two kaiju
-One of Ifukubes weaker and more repetitive scores
I can go on but I'll stop here

[Maritonic]

So I brought up in another thread that I find this film overrated and it got buried. I'll just list a few of the reasons I feel that way here
-extremely uneven special effects. We get some stellar shots especially of Titanosaurus and we also get a Titano and Mechag knee deep in cities
-rather boring characters, sure what they do is interesting but they have no personality
-Katsura is bland and we only really see her as the girl she was in a flashback
-Mafuna isn't all that sympathetic if anything he is the opposite
-Godzilla is basically an after thought in the film and feels more like he is in by obligation
-Mechag is also an after thought. There is no real problem with Titano being the focus, it just comes of as more its movie than one of the other two kaiju
-One of Ifukubes weaker and more repetitive scores
I can go on but I'll stop here

While I agree that the shots of Titanosaurus and Mechagodzilla knee deep in cities is jarring, I always found it added to the imposing nature of the characters. But I definitely see your point on this.

Mafune is definitely not sympathetic, but I'm not sure he was intended to be? I always perceived him as sort of a mad crazy doctor who was too far down the rabbit hole. Him being cast out of society, I read more as just because he seemed crazy. Not his insistence that there were dinosaurs, as he claimed. When it comes to Katsura being bland, hmm, well I guess this is just personal taste I never found her bland. But I think the idea of a human telepathically controlling Titanosaurus kinda overshadows anything else so I'm willing to admit a bias I have here.

When it comes to Mechagodzilla and Godzilla being afterthoughts, I think this was sort of the intention as well. Godzilla only shows up when Titanosaurus shows up in the city, and that fight ends quick, and again when Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus are laying waste to Tokyo. He's this hero who shows up to save the day, so his lack of screen time I really thought worked so well here and amplified his heroism. Whereas he's sort of always at the forefront of Godzilla vs. Hedorah, which makes him sort of a campier hero. Mechagodzilla, when he finally activates, unleashes hell on Tokyo leveling full city blocks. So, again I kind of think this was all the intention.

Completely 100% agree on the Ifukube score, though; it feels slow, tired (not as in boring, but like the score FEELS tired) and it's very repetitive. So no disagreement there.

Not trying to tell you your wrong in your opinion, of course. I can see where you're coming from on all of your points.

[LegendZilla]

^I hate to admit it, but Ifukube was ALWAYS a bit repetitive in every film he scored.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

This movie has IMHO the absolute greatest entrance of Godzilla in any movie.

Agreed 100%.

Agreed 1000000%. Whenever I think of Godzilla this scene immediately comes to mind.

[GojiDog]

Maybe its because I'm a fan of John Williams and 80s cartoons, but I like repetitive scores.

Basically, I like having "themes" for the characters and musical motifs running throughout the score.

Ifukube repeated himself ALOT, but his music always helps to make those moments with the monsters stand out more.

[Spuro]

I like the ToMG score a lot myself. It's the first movie since the original to use the "Godzilla theme", which is important because in 1954 that theme was associated with the JSDF, not Godzilla. ToMG was the first to introduce that theme as Godzilla's theme.

[GojiDog]

I like the ToMG score a lot myself. It's the first movie since the original to use the "Godzilla theme", which is important because in 1954 that theme was associated with the JSDF, not Godzilla. ToMG was the first to introduce that theme as Godzilla's theme.

Yes and in my internal analysis of the movie (cause, ya know, I do that), I took that as a symbolic meaning.

In the original movie, that theme was associated with the JSDF, the good guys and the underdogs. In the final movie, which depicts Godzilla openly working in tandem with the JSDF and protecting Japan, Godzilla now has that theme. Musical indication that Godzilla is now a good guy too, as well as the underdog since he's going up against two monsters this time.

I guarantee that Ifukube nor the people involved in the movie intended this, but hey, I'm a nerd that likes to overthink muh kaiju movies, lol.

Now the Heisei series took that mental nugget of mine and threw it out the window, but hey.