Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

[Terasawa]

1. No, the water Godzilla costume in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla was not the same costume they used for Fake Godzilla.

What was the point of that costume then? I find it hard to believe they built it for that one scene in Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla.

They probably didn't: based on its appearance it was most likely a cheap attraction costume built for promotional events.

[JAGzilla]

All right, just got done with my first viewing of this one in about fifteen years. Been looking forward to it for a danged long time, heh. I don't think this one did much for me when I was a kid, and certainly not as a cynical teenager, but I had a lot of fun this time around. I guess I'd still probably put it near the bottom of the list if I were to rank the Showa movies based on personal enjoyment, but I love 'em all, so that's relative.

Miscellaneous Thoughts:

- The music is a mixed bag. I liked the theme that was used for the opening credits, and there was definitely other stuff I liked but can't remember now. There was a Godzilla theme that played during the lightning scene, among others; it was fine, but had some notes similar to the standard Ifukube theme, and it kinda just felt like they should've just used the Ifukube theme and been done with it. The main jazzy battle theme I hated on my last viewing, and now I've warmed up to lukewarm status on it. It ain't turrible, but it's never likely to be a favorite of mine, either.

- The aforementioned lightning scene. Utterly random nonsense? Yep. So fucking badass that I didn't care? Also yep. As for the actual scene where Godzilla magnetizes himself, it's great in it's own ridiculous '70s Godzilla way. It's a very unique ability, and I actually would be open to seeing it return someday.

- On the subject of fucking badassery, the pyrotechnics. Like, wow. Fake Godzilla's attack on the oil refinery (or whatever that place was, I forget) and the subsequent battle were a visual highlight of the franchise.

- The human characters were mostly just there. I would say there were too many of them, and some didn't do much of anything. The professor's daughter, for example. Most were generic and forgettable, though the professor stood out for (in classic genre fashion) knowing everything the plot required him to, and the main Interpol agent was cool. The second agent had no business being in the movie, though. I would've liked to have seen a larger role for the Azumi woman and her grandfather.

More thoughts to come later.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

^ Your thoughts on Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla pretty much align with my own. It certainly has its moments; the sequence at the oil refinery, with Godzilla coming to battle his doppelganger is awesome, and you're right about the fantastic pyrotechnics. And while the magnetic force thing is ridiculous, it fits with the style of the 70s films, just like Godzilla flying and the tail slide. Sato's main title theme is incredible. Beyond this, though, I have a lot of issues with the movie. While I still enjoy it a lot, I think it's one of the weaker Showa entries for sure. I'm glad you pointed out the oversized and underdeveloped cast, because that's always been an annoyance for me. As I mentioned a while back in this thread, King Caesar's pointless role in the film bothers me, too. If Godzilla vs. Megalon wasn't a thing, this would easily be Fukuda's weakest Godzilla film.

[eabaker]

Nice to see people agreeing on points that I've been pilloried for making in the past. I really enjoy this one, and it easily has some of the best SFX sequences of the 70s movies, but the human side of the equation is very busy without actually having that much story to tell.

[Terasawa]

The flaws are more visible to me now but I still think it’s immensely entertaining.

[eabaker]

The flaws are more visible to me now but I still think it’s immensely entertaining.

Oh, for sure! While I rank GvsMG relatively low among Showa era Godzilla flicks, for me at least that's really praising with faint damnation.

[JAGzilla]

- King Seesar was unfortunately pointless. The buildup to him was great, I liked the whole mystical prophecy angle, all the shots of Shisa statues and accompanying 'mysterious' music. His appearance was unique, I liked his fast, aggressive combat style, and his beam reflection ability was very cool, though sorely underutilized. But he didn't do anything. He could've been cut completely from the final battle and the outcome would've been the same. It would've been so easy to fix that, too. Maybe he could've actually saved Godzilla a time or two. Or once Godzilla had grabbed hold of Mechagodzilla at the end, maybe MG could've done a better job of fighting back and broken loose or turned the tables, forcing Seesar to be the one to hold him still while Godzilla actually tore his head off.

- On the flip side, I really enjoyed Anguirus' role in this film. He got his head handed to him, yes, and I would've liked to see him put up a slightly better fight, but the part he played here was unique for... I think the entire Godzilla series, actually. He basically shows up here just to reveal that something is out of place with Godzilla, and to establish the new villain's power by getting the snot beat out of him. Except maybe for Kameobas' corpse in GMMG, I don't think any of the other movies have a kaiju play a role anything like that.

- Going back to King Seesar for a minute, waking him up with a song was... definitely a thing. It felt derivative of the Shobijin singing to Mothra, and kind of slapped in there for the sake of having a musical number because this was (partly) an island movie, and they typically have musical numbers in this series. It feels sort of silly and random, especially given the small presence Nami had in the movie beforehand, but that's par for the course with '70s Godzilla. Strange things happen sometimes, and all you can do is sit back and go along with them. The actual song itself was fine. Not on par with the Mothra songs, but enjoyable enough. It didn't need that second verse, though. I've seen it get a lot of flak over the years for being insufferably long, and I was initially thinking that people must be exaggerating, the song wasn't that long. Look, it's already endin- oh. Oh, okay, now we sit through the whole thing again. It added some more bombast to Seesar's much heralded awakening, though, so I was on board.

- Mechagodzilla is pretty easily the best villain of the Showa era. Ghidorah looked incredible and was billed as a major threat, but never really delivered in his actual monster vs. monster scenes. Hedorah was deadly and nigh-unstoppable, but lacked the capacity for spectacle to really take him to the top. Gigan and Megalon were bumbling goons. Mechagodzilla, though, was absolutely lethal and he let you know it. He effortlessly stomped Anguirus, handled King Seesar like a pro. He was double-teamed by Godzilla and Seesar, and not only held his own but freaking came down on them like the wrath of God, just pummeling them with an endless barrage of weaponry that (a rarity for this series) actually caused visible damage. And a lot of it. Godzilla was bleeding like a stuck pig, missiles protruding from his skin, getting hammered so badly that the writers couldn't find a plausible way out of it and had to give him a new superpower. I was pleasantly surprised to see how competent he was in the melee department, too. That's another thing I thought people were exaggerating; I see it brought up all the time when comparing him to the Heisei incarnation, that '74 MG actually fights hand to hand, but I assumed that was just Showa bias talking, and maybe too much being made of what he did while in the Fake Godzilla disguise. But no, he was actually physically manhandling King Seesar, karate-chopping him and sending him flying like a rag doll. He was agile enough actually dodged one of Godzilla's atomic rays, too, which was very cool to see.

- The aliens were okay villains. I still prefer the Xilliens from Monster Zero, but they made for good moustache-twirling evil-doers. The agent they had trying to steal the statue was surprisingly competent and served well as a running menace through the film. His fights with Masahiko were rather well done, too; it's not often that the human fight scenes in this series hold a candle to the monster action, but here they were suitably frantic and brutal, actually exciting to watch. Having him lose the ability to speak Japanese when his human disguise went down was a cool touch, and his grunting ape language added a lot to the fear and tension of the moment where he finally gains the upper hand against Masahiko and holds him at gunpoint.

[Terasawa]

The songs in the Champion Godzilla movies were sold as singles as well (usually a different recording though) so the song in the movie is really probably just a bit of merchandising.

[szmigiel]

He basically shows up here just to reveal that something is out of place with Godzilla, and to establish the new villain's power by getting the snot beat out of him. Except maybe for Kameobas' corpse in GMMG, I don't think any of the other movies have a kaiju play a role anything like that.

The Trope of having a squash match to show off power was actually not that uncommon in the Showa Era.
Godzilla Vs King Kong had Kong battle Oodako to show his power before facing Godziila.
Garia also beat up on poor Oodako in War of the Gargantuas.
Komonga easily takes out a Kamacuras in Son of Godzilla to show he is a major threat.
You can also say the same thing about Mothra just getting knocked around by Ghidorah before Godzilla and Rodan show up to help.
I don't know what to make of the first encounter between Titanosaurus and Godzilla since that fight was over as soon as it started.

[bessantj]

Great subtitles from Amazon Prime

[mikelcho]

A few thoughts of mine on this film that just came to mind:

*The reason that Mechagodzilla's first appearance disguised as Godzilla happened the way it did, imo, was because the Simeons built it at a secret Earth base at Mount Fuji that no one knew about (and that the viewers never saw and were never shown) and all the explosions that heralded the robot's coming was the destruction of said base along with everyone and everything in it (they committed suicide so they couldn't reveal to the humans how they created Mechagodzilla if they were captured, killed the human slaves they obviously used to build Mechagodzilla because they'd served their purpose and they had no further use for them and destroyed the base so no one would find it and to really make sure that the humans didn't learn the secret of how they created Mechagodzilla (similar to what they did to their other base in Terror of Mechagodzilla, except that time, of course, the human slaves' lives were saved).

*One of the best parts of the first Godzilla/Mechagodzilla fight, imo, was when Godzilla's atomic heat ray and Mechagodzilla's eye laser beams meet in the middle and end up stuck in a stalemate for a few seconds before finally exploding. I'd like to have seen a little back-and-forth pushing motion before said explosion, though, with each one trying to overpower the other a few times and not succeeding either way. You all know what I'm talking about, I think.

*I always thought the electrical storm scene on Monster Island (at least, I think that's where it was, please tell me if I'm wrong) was always Godzilla both increasing his strength and power and healing his wounds from the first fight, thus resulting in the first-ever appearance of his nuclear pulse.

*Likewise, the magnetic power, again imo, was the electrical energy from the lightning combined with the nuclear radiation already in Godzilla's body.

That's my thoughts, anyway. What do you guys and gals think?

[Terasawa]

Great subtitles from Amazon Prime

He definitely seems like a Chris.

[Voyager]

One of the more “normie bait films” of the series along with DAM and GFW.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

One of the more “normie bait films” of the series along with DAM and GFW.

How is this film "normie bait"? The middle 30 or so minutes move very slowly and, on the whole, there's a lot less monster action than most of the other Showa films, and this tends to be what attracts casual viewers. This is probably one of the last Godzilla films I'd show to a non-fan. I don't really see DAM as this type of film either; I feel like that's a film that's only cool if you've seen a lot of the Showa films and know who these monsters are and appreciate the significance of so many appearing in one film.

I think the biggest "normie bait" Toho Godzilla film is definitely GMK. It's a damn good movie, it has a lot of action, its effects work holds up, it can be viewed independently from any other film in the series and it's tone is just dark enough to draw in edgelords while not dark enough to turn away casuals. Of all Godzilla films, KOTM is easily the most appealing to casual viewers because it's a very American blockbuster full of the CGI overload, explosions aplenty and excessive lowbrow jokes that Marvel fanboys are used to.

[Spuro]

One of the more “normie bait films” of the series along with DAM and GFW.

How is this film "normie bait"?

I assume because the human characters engage in a lot of fighting and adventuring between the monster action, compared to other Godzilla movies.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

One of the more “normie bait films” of the series along with DAM and GFW.

How is this film "normie bait"?

I assume because the human characters engage in a lot of fighting and adventuring between the monster action, compared to other Godzilla movies.

I mean, I guess so, but I feel like most people watch Godzilla movies to see monsters fighting, not humans fighting.

[JAGzilla]

^ Sure, but (if Rugrats has taught me anything) the uninitiated believe that the human stories in these films consist of scientists pacing around in labs spouting intensely boring nonsense exposition for most of the movie's runtime. So a human story full of action and adventure (punctuated by only moderate amounts of scientists spouting nonsense exposition) seems like an ideal way to dispel that notion.

Also, you get four monsters, a decently handled alien invasion, and some of the most hardcore action in the genre. I'd call vs. Mechagodzilla as ideal an introduction as any. And you're not wrong about GMK, but there is the issue that it's not exactly representative of the series as a whole, between the mystical elements and unconventional takes on Mothra and Ghidorah.

[bessantj]

The alien costumes seemed a bit lazy, gorilla suits painted green.

[GojiDog]

Weird thing about the two Showa Mechagodzilla movies was casting Goro Mutsumi as the lead villain in both films. This is more of an issue for Terror since it came 2nd, but it kind of confused me as a kid. When I saw Terror at age 6, I recognized him from the previous film (might be the first time I ever recognized a Godzilla cast member in a different film), and I thought "Wait...didn't he die last time?".

Do all black hole alien leaders assume the exact same Earth disguise? (Which is my head canon explanation. New leader, same suit/skin/shell/whatever, lol)

[Voyager]

What would’ve been cool was if they use SoshingekiGoji for Fake Godzilla. It was all worn down then so, it would’ve fit nicely for a cheap alien costume.