Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Proofpoochie »

This film isn't great, but it's still a lot of fun. I prefer it to Megalon.

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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Irys X »

I always liked this film for some reason. Maybe because it was one of the first Showa Godzilla movies i saw, or maybe because I really like Gigan and the tag team structure, I can't really pinpoint why. I just like it a lot.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by DoctorMafune »

This film is a really mixed bag. The human story puts me off more than most, with its ridiculously overacting lead, that snarky teen as the lead villain, and its low-budget silliness (e.g., tapes somehow capable of summoning the monsters falling into the hands of marginally employed goofballs who nevertheless manage to play them on normal stereo equipment and wake up Godzilla and Angilas.) The music editor drew Ifukube's cues—normally a deeply moving asset to any film—from so many widely varying sources that they're actually distracting in places: like using the march from Frankenstein Conquers the World for driving around Japan. And the main title, used again during the final battle, which was taken from music that A.I. composed for an exhibition at Expo '70, isn't the best match for the film, either. (I did think that the stock music drawn from Battle In Outer Space worked perfectly in the scene where the aliens summon Gigan and KG... a cue that the visuals were tailored so beautifully to match, one could easily believe it had been composed for this film.)

The effects scenes contain some groaners so nearly unwatchable that one longs for a pair of scissors and ten minutes in the editing booth, and those pathetically out of scale, motionless flying models of Gigan and Ghidorah circling the Godzilla Tower's head, along with that hideous G '67 suit (even worse than before, given its deterioration) rising from the bay, would be the first to hit the floor. (It's too bad Nakano thought he was saving money that way... Given that the G '68 suit wouldn't be used after this film, anyway, and he could have used it in the water, too, filming those scenes last. 20-20 hindsight, though...)

And of course, the stock footage was really distracting, too. One can imagine that small fry in Japanese theaters who hadn't seen Ghidorah laying waste to Tokyo, seven years earlier, would be impressed, though... and the infamous "talking" scenes weren't as bad in the Japanese version, either. (As someone else has probably pointed out, word balloons appeared next to Godzilla and Angilas... there were no dubbed voices.)

And all that said, this film has some breathtaking visuals of its own. Gigan, especially as he appears in this film, is fantastically designed and a joy to look at. As others have noted, Ghidorah and Gigan make a thematically appealing and visually striking team (especially against those deep blue sky backgrounds), and a precious few of their scenes together are stunning. Even though the small scale of the masers doesn't quite work, I love the scene of Ghidorah, marching across the landscape alongside Gigan, blowing the Hell out of them... and like some other jaw-droppers in this film, that scene was filmed at the correct speed to make the monsters seem massive.

Best of all is that battle in the oil refinery, which I thought was nothing short of astonishing: especially seeing this film shortly after suffering through some of the crudely filmed inanities in Megalon. The low angles, the scenes of Gigan brandishing his weapons and both invaders essentially daring the Earth monsters to come ashore, the fantastic and colorful explosions, the appropriately lumbering strides of the monsters, and even the music editor (who chose the perfect cue from this scene) combined to make this one of the most awesome battles in all the Godzilla series. I even like the fact that Godzilla essentially ignores Gigan when he first reaches grappling range, and thunders right into his arch-enemy Ghidorah. This battle alone was worth the price of admission.

Setting later stages of the confrontation in a large amusement park with a life-size replica of Godzilla was a clever touch that had some (mostly unrealized) visual potential... It's too bad that the budget didn't allow for some real spectacle there, instead of an underwhelming Godzilla Tower sculpt and little more than giant building blocks and mushrooms for the monsters to thrash their ways through.

Budgetary restrictions may also explain why Godzilla doesn't use his atomic breath more, even though it's obviously effective against Gigan. As for what our heroes did, instead... well...

Despite the fact that some of the tactics Godzilla and Angilas use to win (e.g., flipping Ghidorah (THREE times), and jumping backwards), and the fact that Ghidorah alone, in his prime, would have given them enough pure Hell to have them both on the ropes for awhile, Godzilla and Angilas having gotten the living daylights hammered out of them earlier in the film builds some dramatic tension, providing a good emotional foundation for their eventual victory.

The bottom line, for me: despite all its flaws, Gigan is my second favorite Godzilla film on the 70s (with Terror of MechaGodzilla taking the top spot.)
Last edited by DoctorMafune on Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Primevalgodzilla V2 »

therealmccoy wrote:
King Caesar wrote:^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.
I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.
Inflated, the oringinal Mothra vs Godzilla and GTTHM ARE among the highest grossers.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Kyono_Rei »

Primevalgodzilla V2 wrote:
therealmccoy wrote:
King Caesar wrote:^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.
I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.
Inflated, the oringinal Mothra vs Godzilla and GTTHM ARE among the highest grossers.
Remember that 1992 was an economical depression year in Japan which was not yet recovering from the 1989 crisis.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by therealmccoy »

Primevalgodzilla V2 wrote:
therealmccoy wrote:
King Caesar wrote:^ I could have sworn Mothra vs Godzilla was one of the highest grossing films, but I might be getting that mixed up with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.
I think that was Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992) That's what it says in my Compendium anyway. I think it still is, too.
Inflated, the oringinal Mothra vs Godzilla and GTTHM ARE among the highest grossers.
At the risk of getting off topic: When adjusted for inflation, isn't King Kong vs. Godzilla still the highest grossing Godzilla film in the series? I thought I remember reading that somewhere. I had no idea that Ghidorah was one of the top grossers.
But back on topic, this one was a definite low point in terms of revenue. If I had been alive back then my speculation would have more merit, but I think I remember reading that Japanese cinema during that time period was really suffering.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Kyono_Rei »

therealmccoy wrote:But back on topic, this one was a definite low point in terms of revenue. If I had been alive back then my speculation would have more merit, but I think I remember reading that Japanese cinema during that time period was really suffering.
It really was. I think this created a vicious circle - tokusatsu films got low budgets, so many good scenes were cut or never made. They saved up on some sets and started reusing stock footage a lot more.
This in turn made the films as a whole to be of lower quality, which made less people watch them and thus bring in less revenue. Less revenue meant even smaller budgets for the next tokusatsu film...

I think it is a shame, because I believe Godzilla vs Gigan had some good ideas and the new scenes were some of the best of the showa era yet. If they had enough money to film ALL of the scenes this way (instead of reusing stock footage) it might have been the best Godzilla film to date, which would attract more viewers and bring more income.

I think Japanese cinema is having a similar moment now. If they would get a big enough budget to create large, detailed miniature scenes, and then combine them with CGI acting as an additional "filter" and way to enchance scenes (and not make scenes from scratch) then they could get a world winner here... but I'm getting off-topic. Sorry.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Kyono_Rei »

Legion1979 wrote: Haven't seen Gamera vs Viras yet, have you?
That's a 60s movie, plus I'm not taht much of a Gamera fan. I should have made it more clear that I was talking about the 70s era films in the last thread.
Legion1979 wrote:No. Not really. The reason why people weren't going to the monster films anymore had nothing to do with "quality" or stock footage. Why go to the movies when you can stay home and watch stuff like Ultraman, Ultaseven and Space Giants for absolutely free?
You have a point, but one does not exclude the other. TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great and anyone had enoug money to go to the cinema at least several times a year. Other genres of film did not have such a drastic cutback like kaiju films.
TV had a role in lowering budgets initially, but then the snowball effect was kept on by lower quality. The Heisei comeback proved very well that TV is not a factor that alone could ruin kaiju films and prevent people from going to the cinema to see Godzilla. If the studios kept a different personal and budget policy in the 70s, there wouldn't need a "comeback" in the first place.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Lord Gappa »

Legion1979 wrote:
Kyono_Rei wrote: TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great
The Japanese film industry was CRIPPLED in the 1970's.
Hence why Zone Fighter was canceled.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by TokyoVigilante »

You have a point, but one does not exclude the other. TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great and anyone had enoug money to go to the cinema at least several times a year. Other genres of film did not have such a drastic cutback like kaiju films.
Everything I've read on the subject points out that the seventies in Japan were economically tough and that the "Economic Miracle" of Japan was throughout the sixties. Several film studios that were once prosperous were forced to either closed down or begin making pornography either full time or part time to survive and once financially successful franchises like the "Young Guy" films and Crazy Cats comedies were axed, never to appear again.
TV had a role in lowering budgets initially, but then the snowball effect was kept on by lower quality. The Heisei comeback proved very well that TV is not a factor that alone could ruin kaiju films and prevent people from going to the cinema to see Godzilla.
The Heisei era was successful because of nostalgia. The Return of Godzilla was a luke-warm success and Godzilla vs. Biollante, a film that has rightfully earned the acclaim as one of the best films in the entire franchise, was a financial disappointment. The success from bringing back King Ghidorah indicated to Toho that the public wasn't interested in a fresh kaiju experience, they wanted to go watch films with characters from their childhood. For the next three films Toho focused on reviving iconic and classic foes from their roster in films that are notorious for having spotty special effects that range from stellar to inexcusably awful and contrived poorly written scripts. Spacegodzilla had a slashed budget and resources and Destroyah was milked for all its worth as the "final" movie.
If the studios kept a different personal and budget policy in the 70s, there wouldn't need a "comeback" in the first place.
Personnel? Wha..? Jun Fukuda is a solid Director, screenwriter Shinichi Sekizawa pretty much invented the Kaiju genre, and special effects director Teruyoshi Nakano clearly demonstrated his considerable talent when he had the time and money by his work in The Return of Godzilla. The personnel were just fine, it was the economic climate and Tohos penny pinching that gave us the films we got.
Last edited by TokyoVigilante on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

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Legion1979 wrote:
Lord Gappa wrote:Hence why Zone Fighter was canceled.
Umm what?

A better response would have been: "Hence why many long-time actors and filmmakers retired in the '70s, many theaters closed, film series ended and why many film companies went out of business."

Your comment was probably sarcasm, but it still doesn't make sense.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Zone Fighter canceled due to economic problems?
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Kyono_Rei »

Legion1979 wrote:
Kyono_Rei wrote: TV shifted the focus away from cinema, but these were the booming japanese 70s. The economy was great
The Japanese film industry was CRIPPLED in the 1970's.
Actually no, not even close. The Japanese economy was quickly expanding between 1960 and 1989. In the 1970s Japan actually had the largest percentage of people employed in industry in its whole history. The big crash came in 1989 and then another one in 1991 when the asset price bubble broke.

Here are soem quotes if you want me to back up my claims:
Japan's economic growth in the 1960s and 1970s was based on the rapid expansion of heavy manufacturing in such areas as automobiles, steel, shipbuilding, chemicals, and electronics. The secondary sector (manufacturing, construction, and mining) expanded to 35.6% of the work force by 1970. (...)Throughout the 1970s, Japan had the world's second largest gross national product (GNP)—just behind the United States— and ranked first among major industrial nations in 1990 in per capita GNP at US$23,801, up sharply from US$9,068 in 1980. After a mild economic slump in the mid-1980s, Japan's economy began a period of expansion in 1986 that continued until it again entered a recessionary period in 1992. Economic growth averaging 5% between 1987 and 1989 revived industries, such as steel and construction, which had been relatively dormant in the mid-1980s, and brought record salaries and employment. In 1992, however, Japan's real GNP growth slowed to 1.7%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_h ... _of_growth
Changing price conditions favored conservation and alternative sources of industrial energy. Although the investment costs were high, many energy-intensive industries successfully reduced their dependence on oil during the late 1970s and 1980s and enhanced their productivity. Advances in microcircuitry and semiconductors in the late 1970s and 1980s also led to new growth industries in consumer electronics and computers and to higher productivity in already established industries. (...)Despite more petroleum price increases in 1979, the strength of the Japanese economy was apparent. It expanded without the double- digit inflation that afflicted other industrial nations and that had bothered Japan itself after the first oil crisis in 1973. Japan experienced slower growth in the mid-1980s, but its demand- sustained economic boom of the late 1980s revived many troubled industries.
(...)As a latecomer to modernization, Japan was able to avoid some of the trial and error earlier needed by other nations to develop industrial processes. In the 1970s and 1980s, Japan improved its industrial base through technology licensing, patent purchases, and imitation and improvement of foreign inventions.
http://countrystudies.us/japan/98.htm

Sorry to have been so blunt, but I do know Japan's history pretty well. The 1960s and 1970s where the times of Japan's largest economical power in comparison with other world powers. People today refer to the 1970s as the "good old days".

Japanese film industry, like all film industries in the world at that time, faced some competition from TV, but most genres of film handled that well, especially jidaigeki or yakuza eiga.
Several film studios that were once prosperous were forced to either closed down or begin making pornography either full time or part time to survive
This is because the sexual revolution of the late 60s early 70s created both a demand for porn and pinku eiga, as well as social acceptance of such films. This is a result of the "sexual revolution" and changes in japanese culture at that time, it has very little to do with economy. They didn't film as much pinku eiga in the 60s because there was no big public demand not social consent for it. That is why it only became highly profitable in the 70s, not the other way around.
The personnel were just fine, it was the economic climate and Tohos penny pinching that gave us the films we got.
After Tsuburaya Eiji died, almost all the special effects people left Toho, which caused mayhem as they had to train verious secondary assistants to fill in the shoes of their experienced superiors that left. They explicitly mention that in the documentary fim "Bringing Godzilla down to size"
Last edited by Kyono_Rei on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by therealmccoy »

I do remember reading elsewhere that in the seventies, America began pumping out some pretty spectacular special-effects. The specific example they gave was Star Wars. That, in-turn left audiences with higher expectations from the special-effects department, and when they couldn't deliver properly, they became disenchanted. So maybe that was another factor that had something to do with it. As I said before, I wasn't alive in the seventies; this is coming from literature, so I may be wrong.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Tamura »

Does anybody have a copy of the Sci-fi Channel broadcast with the comic bubbles intact?
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by gojimantis »

that one guy Really liked corn on the cob...didn't he?
You have your fear which might become reality. And you have Godzilla, which *is* reality.

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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Tamura »

Well if you ever find the broadcast, please drop me a line.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by therealmccoy »

I didn't know there was a version with the bubbles in it. The one I have on VHS doesn't. No big deal, I just found it weird that they would include it in some releases and not others.
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Re: Talkback Thread #12: Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)

Post by Kubo »

therealmccoy wrote:I didn't know there was a version with the bubbles in it. The one I have on VHS doesn't. No big deal, I just found it weird that they would include it in some releases and not others.
I believe the reason for it was just to keep the comic theme alive from that strange beginning intro (you know, the "I think it stinks" one). Seemed pointless, but hey, I'm not the one making the movie. I would like to see it though.
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Godzilla vs. Gigan question/speculation

Post by Godz »

So, something I was wondering as I watched this film the other day....

What was the aliens' original plan? There is a line of dialog where they change to "plan number six", I believe, once the tape is stolen and played. Was adding Ghidorah to the invasion the change? Also, just how did they intend to destroy all of Monster Island? Somehow I don't think the Japanese government would be cool with that, since by then most of the inhabitants (Godzilla, Minya, Mothra, Anguirus and Rodan) were full fledged 'good guys', and the others had pretty much no chance of breaking out and making it to the mainland (Gorosaurus or Kumonga).

Just wondering what you guys can come up with.

Oh yeah, something that makes me ROFL every time? When the heroes are trying to convince the military to raid the Godzilla (or G'dzilla, if you prefer the dub) Tower, and they are claiming that Mr. Shima is locked up there? "We're telling the truth, this is his lighter!"

Well, holy fuck, that proves everything! ;)
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Re: Godzilla vs. Gigan question/speculation

Post by therealmccoy »

Well, Kubota states that Monster Island will be destroyed before the chairman tells him to change the plans, so maybe the whole thing was to destroy it first. Recall that when the tape was played, Godzilla heard it and knew something was up, and they were alert. maybe the aliens were trying to catch them off guard, and now that they knew something was going on, they no longer had the element of surprise.

As for the raid on the tower, they just wanted them to go in and get the bad guys, not outright destroy the thing yet. If I remember correctly, they didn't talk about destroying it until after Shima was rescued. He was the one that suggested that a small group infiltrate the tower. That's what I make of the whole thing.
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