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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:54 am
by LSD Jellyfish
There’s no indication that Ichiro becomes a bully. All he does is stand up to Gabara, the two fight, and it’s not at all violent, and the they all become friends. Think about when you were that age.

There’s no anti-bullying theme, or bullying theme. It’s s slice of Ichiro’s life.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:59 am
by godjacob
LSD Jellyfish wrote:There’s no indication that Ichiro becomes a bully. All he does is stand up to Gabara, the two fight, and it’s not at all violent, and the they all become friends. Think about when you were that age.

There’s no anti-bullying theme, or bullying theme. It’s s slice of Ichiro’s life.
Gabara is a bully, a tie in to both the two kidnappers and the leader of the gang of kids who actively bully him. If that is not an anti-bullying theme I don't know what is.

But irregardless dropping paint on that random guy and having fun at his expense is bullying, and if not that isn't a way to make me like the kid when the previous run time tried to get me to sympathize with him against the kids for doing stuff like that to him. He is obnoxious, whiny and a bit of a jerk to people even if they never did anything to him. Where are the qualities I am supposed to like?

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:18 am
by MinorBone Good
I feel like the arc that Ichiro went through made sense with his character. While I personally don't like the ending, it made sense for him to act that way. While on my rewatch of the movie, I found myself relating to him. I recalled back to my childhood and I felt it was very similar, being alone with only one friend sort of thing. He doesn't even become a bully at the end. He just fights back, and causes small mischief at the end. It's never implied that Ichiro will now start bulling other kids. Kids often play tricks on neighbors and strangers because it gives them some entertainment. They're not malicious.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:08 am
by JAGzilla
Excluding the paint can scene, which I can understand being a problem even if I'm in the camp that doesn't see real malice in it, what does Ichiro do that makes him such a brat? I'd like to see specific examples.

Everyone is free to their own opinion, for the record, I'm not trying to put down or convert anyone. I'd just like to see this claim substantiated, is all.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:26 pm
by godjacob
JAGzilla wrote:Excluding the paint can scene, which I can understand being a problem even if I'm in the camp that doesn't see real malice in it, what does Ichiro do that makes him such a brat? I'd like to see specific examples.

Everyone is free to their own opinion, for the record, I'm not trying to put down or convert anyone. I'd just like to see this claim substantiated, is all.
More so his overall attitude/demeanor than anything else. And the voice (Not even just the English Dub here). I would list specific examples beyond the paint can but it has been a while since I watched the film so I'd need to freshen up. If I can stomach sitting through it again naturally or my VHS works properly lol

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:55 pm
by Gigantis
godjacob wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:Excluding the paint can scene, which I can understand being a problem even if I'm in the camp that doesn't see real malice in it, what does Ichiro do that makes him such a brat? I'd like to see specific examples.

Everyone is free to their own opinion, for the record, I'm not trying to put down or convert anyone. I'd just like to see this claim substantiated, is all.
More so his overall attitude/demeanor than anything else. And the voice (Not even just the English Dub here). I would list specific examples beyond the paint can but it has been a while since I watched the film so I'd need to freshen up. If I can stomach sitting through it again naturally or my VHS works properly lol
It's a strange film, that's for sure. Gabara makes everything worth it tho, trust me. :P

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:21 pm
by godjacob
tyrantgoji wrote:
godjacob wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:Excluding the paint can scene, which I can understand being a problem even if I'm in the camp that doesn't see real malice in it, what does Ichiro do that makes him such a brat? I'd like to see specific examples.

Everyone is free to their own opinion, for the record, I'm not trying to put down or convert anyone. I'd just like to see this claim substantiated, is all.
More so his overall attitude/demeanor than anything else. And the voice (Not even just the English Dub here). I would list specific examples beyond the paint can but it has been a while since I watched the film so I'd need to freshen up. If I can stomach sitting through it again naturally or my VHS works properly lol
It's a strange film, that's for sure. Gabara makes everything worth it tho, trust me. :P
The true king of the monsters XD

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:45 am
by Terasawa
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:
godjacob wrote:Point break, the worst Godzilla movie in the franchise. The kid character was annoying enough to challenge the worst kids in the Showa Gamera films and the stock footage fatigue became draining. It's basically a downgraded version of Son of Godzilla only with less charm.

The status of it being a true "kids movie" doesn't help as it seems to betray its own moral. As for an anti-bullying movie it ends with our kid joining with the bullies to prank some random guy who did nothing wrong to get their approval. So it doesn't even work in that regard.

The only "highlight" is Gabara; who is so ridiculous and such a petty bully Kaiju it is somewhat amusing. But is far from enough to save anything.
Now here's something we totally agree on. I'm not gonna lie, I think 90% of people defend this movie purely because it's made by Honda and he said that he liked the film. I hate Ichiro and I think claims that he's a well-rounded character are a pretty big reach. He's a bratty ass kid who gets picked on at the beginning, and a bratty ass kid who picks on others at the end. And yeah, sure, his absent parents are probably to blame, but he's still an annoying little prick.

And I don't think the limited budget and production schedule are an excuse for the excess of stock footage, as some try to claim. The film could've focused solely on Godzilla, Minilla and Gabara and had the other kaiju only make stock footage cameos (as Anguirus, Manda and Gorosaurus do) to make Monster Island seem more populated, and I'd have a lot more respect for it.
I want to backtrack a bit to address this: it's non-objective to suggest "90% of people defend this movie purely because it's made by Honda." Perhaps those people see something in the movie you can't or don't want to see, or maybe they have a different criteria for what makes a good (Godzilla) movie. Because you don't understand or can't accept why someone likes a movie doesn't mean that his or her appreciation of it is unjustified.

I've said several times before that I think the filmmakers succeeded in what they tried to do despite the limitations forced on them. To say that the movie "could've focused solely on Godzilla, Minilla and Gabara..." blatantly ignores the context of what happened behind the scenes. No, they could not have filmed exclusively new footage of the three title characters: the budget did not allow it, it did not fit with Tanaka's plan (to save money by reusing content from previous films), and there was no SFX director on the production. I'd suggest that, instead of focusing on what the movie isn't, fans should try to critique the movie on what it is and what its filmmakers set out to do. (Extreme analogy: Would Godzilla have been a better movie if the special effects had been produced with stop motion as originally intended? There could be an argument there, but it's obviously beyond the realm of possibility.)

And of course you are allowed to dislike whatever characters you want, Ichiro is no exception. However, the vitriol for this character is absurd. "An annoying little prick" is an extreme and distasteful way to describe a child character who is by no means intended as anything of the sort.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:23 am
by HedorahIsBestGirl
Terasawa wrote:
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:I'm not gonna lie, I think 90% of people defend this movie purely because it's made by Honda and he said that he liked the film. I hate Ichiro and I think claims that he's a well-rounded character are a pretty big reach. He's a bratty ass kid who gets picked on at the beginning, and a bratty ass kid who picks on others at the end. And yeah, sure, his absent parents are probably to blame, but he's still an annoying little prick.

And I don't think the limited budget and production schedule are an excuse for the excess of stock footage, as some try to claim. The film could've focused solely on Godzilla, Minilla and Gabara and had the other kaiju only make stock footage cameos (as Anguirus, Manda and Gorosaurus do) to make Monster Island seem more populated, and I'd have a lot more respect for it.
I want to backtrack a bit to address this: it's non-objective to suggest "90% of people defend this movie purely because it's made by Honda." Perhaps those people see something in the movie you can't or don't want to see, or maybe they have a different criteria for what makes a good (Godzilla) movie. Because you don't understand or can't accept why someone likes a movie doesn't mean that his or her appreciation of it is unjustified.

I've said several times before that I think the filmmakers succeeded in what they tried to do despite the limitations forced on them. To say that the movie "could've focused solely on Godzilla, Minilla and Gabara..." blatantly ignores the context of what happened behind the scenes. No, they could not have filmed exclusively new footage of the three title characters: the budget did not allow it, it did not fit with Tanaka's plan (to save money by reusing content from previous films), and there was no SFX director on the production. I'd suggest that, instead of focusing on what the movie isn't, fans should try to critique the movie on what it is and what its filmmakers set out to do. (Extreme analogy: Would Godzilla have been a better movie if the special effects had been produced with stop motion as originally intended? There could be an argument there, but it's obviously beyond the realm of possibility.)

And of course you are allowed to dislike whatever characters you want, Ichiro is no exception. However, the vitriol for this character is absurd. "An annoying little prick" is an extreme and distasteful way to describe a child character who is by no means intended as anything of the sort.
Are you really going to pretend that people don't defend this movie purely because they see Honda's name in the credits? I promise you that if this film was directed by Jun Fukuda or anyone else, it would still be the subject of universal hatred in the fanbase. Maybe 90% was a stretch, but a bit of hyperbole doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of people out there who will love (or hate) a movie just because of its director. Obviously I have no way of proving this, but I've seen it happen with lots of other films. As an example of the opposite happening, people hated both Batman vs. Superman and Justice League before they even came out because they hated Zack Snyder. Granted, both movies were deeply flawed, but people decided they were bad the second they saw Snyder's name attached. People's reasons for liking or disliking a film aren't always great. Sometimes it's not a matter of understanding or appreciating someone else's opinions; sometimes, someone else formed their opinions for a bad reason. If you genuinely love this film and not purely because it is a Honda film, then great. People like what they like. But don't assume that no one claims to like this film for that reason alone.

I'm aware Honda had to assume effects director duties, but given that he did okay with the final kaiju fight, I don't see why he couldn't have thrown in a couple more in place of excessive stock footage. The Gabara suit was made, the Monster Island set was made, so why couldn't there have been a few new scenes with the kaiju, which wouldn't have needed to involve expensive pyrotechnics and animation, instead of several straight minutes ripped from two other Godzilla movies? As I said above, I see no issue with having small stock footage shots for other kaiju to make cameos or for brief effects shots (like Godzilla firing his ray) to be reused, but reusing entire fight scenes is ridiculous. And if Tanaka's plan was to reuse footage from previous films, that was a lazy ass plan and he should've given Godzilla a few more years off and saved the small amount he spent on this movie. Also, saying stock footage shouldn't have been overused isn't even close to saying a movie should've used a completely different style of effects work to bring its monsters to life. That's not really beyond the realm of possibility.

Why is the hatred for Ichiro any more absurd than, say, the hatred for Kazuma Aoki in GvMG2? I happen to like that character, but a large portion of the fanbase (at least here on TK) hates his guts with a fiery passion and talks about how he's the "worst Godzilla character ever." If it's because Ichiro is a child, then I don't accept that. There are plenty of amazingly talented child actors out there. Pretty much everyone from It and Stranger Things, and Dafne Keen from Logan if you want a few recent examples. The child actor who played Ichiro isn't one of them. To be fair, I don't think he's an inaccurate portrayal of a child, he's just a child character who I find annoying and dislike. Clearly, a lot of fans agree with me, and quite a few disagree as well. But I don't think being a child absolves him of being a bad character. To use an example from the Godzilla series itself, I like Ken Yano from Godzilla vs. Hedorah. I found his love of Godzilla relatable when I was a child; even though Ichiro is also a young boy who loves Godzilla, I never found him relatable. Maybe if I'd grown up with absentee parents I would have, but who knows?

As it stands, Godzilla's Revenge/All Monsters Attack is a strange movie which, in my opinion, was poorly made and has no need to exist. Because many regard it as the worst Godzilla film, and some don't consider it a "real" Godzilla film at all, there has been a concerted effort in recent years by a portion of the fanbase to defend this movie. Personally, I have yet to see a compelling argument for why this is a good movie. The three arguments I see, over and over, are:
1 - The filmmakers did there best with what they were given.
2 - Ichiro has a good character arc compared to most Godzilla protagonists.
3 - The film was personal for Honda and is misunderstood by fans, especially in the West.
I disagree with points one and two. Point three may be true; perhaps, having not grown up in Japan, I am missing something that is more obvious to others with a better understanding of Japanese culture than I possess. All I know is that I despised this film as a child then, a few years ago, after reading a wealth of material defending the film, I tried to watch it again on two separate occasions and my opinions did not change.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:50 pm
by eabaker
godjacob wrote:But irregardless dropping paint on that random guy and having fun at his expense is bullying,
No, it is not. Bullying is an act taken against those less powerful (physically or socially) than oneself. Ichiro has no power over the painter.

His behavior is obnoxious and inappropriate, but it is not bullying.

Added in 9 minutes 51 seconds:
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:Are you really going to pretend that people don't defend this movie purely because they see Honda's name in the credits? I promise you that if this film was directed by Jun Fukuda or anyone else, it would still be the subject of universal hatred in the fanbase. Maybe 90% was a stretch, but a bit of hyperbole doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of people out there who will love (or hate) a movie just because of its director. Obviously I have no way of proving this, but I've seen it happen with lots of other films. As an example of the opposite happening, people hated both Batman vs. Superman and Justice League before they even came out because they hated Zack Snyder. Granted, both movies were deeply flawed, but people decided they were bad the second they saw Snyder's name attached.
I think you're missing a causal relationship here. People don't dismiss Zack Snyder movies that they haven't seen because they are Zack Snyder movies; they dismiss Zack Snyder movies that they haven't seen because they are Zack Snyder movies, and those people already know themselves to dislike the stylistic and thematic approaches Snyder takes to his work. Meanwhile, many people who like Honda's style and themes, and who have seen AMA, like it because they have a positive response to what Honda brings to the movie.

People may be more willing to reevaluate it based on Honda's involvement, and I'm sure knowledge of that involvement informs how most of us read the movie, but I don't see any reason to assume that people's opinion of the movie is totally unrelated to the content of the movie.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:11 pm
by Terasawa
I already answered the bulk of your arguments in my original post.
Perhaps those people see something in the movie you can't or don't want to see, or maybe they have a different criteria for what makes a good (Godzilla) movie. Because you don't understand or can't accept why someone likes a movie doesn't mean that his or her appreciation of it is unjustified.
I'd suggest that, instead of focusing on what the movie isn't, fans should try to critique the movie on what it is and what its filmmakers set out to do.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:37 am
by godjacob
eabaker wrote:
godjacob wrote:But irregardless dropping paint on that random guy and having fun at his expense is bullying,
No, it is not. Bullying is an act taken against those less powerful (physically or socially) than oneself. Ichiro has no power over the painter.

His behavior is obnoxious and inappropriate, but it is not bullying.

Added in 9 minutes 51 seconds:
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:Are you really going to pretend that people don't defend this movie purely because they see Honda's name in the credits? I promise you that if this film was directed by Jun Fukuda or anyone else, it would still be the subject of universal hatred in the fanbase. Maybe 90% was a stretch, but a bit of hyperbole doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of people out there who will love (or hate) a movie just because of its director. Obviously I have no way of proving this, but I've seen it happen with lots of other films. As an example of the opposite happening, people hated both Batman vs. Superman and Justice League before they even came out because they hated Zack Snyder. Granted, both movies were deeply flawed, but people decided they were bad the second they saw Snyder's name attached.
I think you're missing a causal relationship here. People don't dismiss Zack Snyder movies that they haven't seen because they are Zack Snyder movies; they dismiss Zack Snyder movies that they haven't seen because they are Zack Snyder movies, and those people already know themselves to dislike the stylistic and thematic approaches Snyder takes to his work. Meanwhile, many people who like Honda's style and themes, and who have seen AMA, like it because they have a positive response to what Honda brings to the movie.

People may be more willing to reevaluate it based on Honda's involvement, and I'm sure knowledge of that involvement informs how most of us read the movie, but I don't see any reason to assume that people's opinion of the movie is totally unrelated to the content of the movie.
My point was that Ichiro doing the same behavior that his bullies had done is off in a movie that seemed to want to sympathize his plight when he was the victim is a bit of a thematic issue. I consider tossing a paint can on a poor guy who isn't in position to do anything about it bullying but apples and oranges there.

Irregardless I do agree it is obnoxious and inappropriate behavior. The kid is unlikable so he makes an already bad movie worse as he is the focus of the story.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:53 am
by ShinGojira14
For the longest time, thanks to scathing reviews from multiple G fans like myself, I avoided this movie like the plague. ESPECIALLY after my brother watched it. He told me it was skreeonking TERRIBLE, the worst Godzilla film ever made!

Christmas 2019, however, I got the Blu-Ray Criterion Showa Era collection as a gift, and thus I decided to watch all the movies. Thinking it would be best to start with everyone's least favorite, I watched All Monsters Attack. And I was in for a shock.

Not only did I find it nowhere near as bad as my brother had described, but I absolutely loved the movie. And to this day, I see it as a hugely underrated masterpiece.

I give it 4/5.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 am
by eabaker
ShinGojira14 wrote:For the longest time, thanks to scathing reviews from multiple G fans like myself, I avoided this movie like the plague. ESPECIALLY after my brother watched it. He told me it was skreeonking TERRIBLE, the worst Godzilla film ever made!

Christmas 2019, however, I got the Blu-Ray Criterion Showa Era collection as a gift, and thus I decided to watch all the movies. Thinking it would be best to start with everyone's least favorite, I watched All Monsters Attack. And I was in for a shock.

Not only did I find it nowhere near as bad as my brother had described, but I absolutely loved the movie. And to this day, I see it as a hugely underrated masterpiece.

I give it 4/5.
Wow, I'm one of this movie's more staunch defenders on TK, and even I've never gone as far as "masterpiece," but I kinda love that you did.

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:21 am
by JAGzilla
ShinGojira14 wrote:For the longest time, thanks to scathing reviews from multiple G fans like myself, I avoided this movie like the plague. ESPECIALLY after my brother watched it. He told me it was skreeonking TERRIBLE, the worst Godzilla film ever made!

Christmas 2019, however, I got the Blu-Ray Criterion Showa Era collection as a gift, and thus I decided to watch all the movies. Thinking it would be best to start with everyone's least favorite, I watched All Monsters Attack. And I was in for a shock.

Not only did I find it nowhere near as bad as my brother had described, but I absolutely loved the movie. And to this day, I see it as a hugely underrated masterpiece.

I give it 4/5.
:applause: 10/10 story, like dis if u cri evry time. :cry:

Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:30 am
by H-Man
Is "Gabara" an actual Japanese name, or is it just Ichiro's name for the bully. I can almost imagine an exchange between them going like:

"Gimme the vacuum tubes back, Gabara!!"
"What the hell are you talking about, Ichiro? My name is Yoshifumi! We've been through this before!"