Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Terasawa » Wed May 08, 2019 1:17 pm

This is easily enjoyable if you shift your expectations. It’s not like any other Godzilla movie but it’s also not trying to be. I for one appreciate the work Honda and Sekizawa did to produce an interesting and unique dramatic framing device for what could have simply been a clipshow.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby eabaker » Wed May 08, 2019 2:00 pm

Terasawa wrote:This is easily enjoyable if you shift your expectations. It’s not like any other Godzilla movie but it’s also not trying to be. I for one appreciate the work Honda and Sekizawa did to produce an interesting and unique dramatic framing device for what could have simply been a clipshow.


100% this. They were presented with an unenviable task, and they managed to turn out a surprisingly entertaining movie, and one that actually feels fresh despite its reliance on existing footage (the new scoring for the recycled sequences helps).

Ichiro's story is not just an excuse to string monster clips together, which it easily could have been. I'm sufficiently engrossed in it, in fact, that the absence of monster action near the end doesn't bother me; by then, it has served its purpose in Ichiro's arc.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Terasawa » Wed May 08, 2019 2:34 pm

eabaker wrote:Ichiro's story is not just an excuse to string monster clips together, which it easily could have been. I'm sufficiently engrossed in it, in fact, that the absence of monster action near the end doesn't bother me; by then, it has served its purpose in Ichiro's arc.


Yeah, I am too. As I've said before, Honda's direction as Sachio Sakai pulls a knife on Ichiro is some of his best work. Sakai isn't bumbling there, at least not at first, and the combination of Miyauchi's scoring and the tight editing really makes the brief sequence work well. There's humor in that entire chase, but it's also very important to remember this was a movie specifically to be screened at a children's holiday film festival. Ichiro is frightened after the robbers have been apprehended (and Yazaki plays it pretty well); I think that's a pretty realistic response to a near-death experience, especially if you have to rely on your fight-or-flight mode to survive as Ichiro did.

Also, speaking of Tomonori Yazaki, he's the only child that ever had to carry a Godzilla film as the main performer and he does a really good job.

There are a lot of types of Godzilla fans that won't enjoy this movie no matter what, including those who only watch for the monsters and those who find anything remotely funny in these movies out of place. I can understand why some people don't like this movie but I think there's enough here that removes it from serious contention as "the worst Godzilla movie."

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Wed May 08, 2019 3:35 pm

Terasawa wrote:

There are a lot of types of Godzilla fans that won't enjoy this movie no matter what, including those who only watch for the monsters and those who find anything remotely funny in these movies out of place. I can understand why some people don't like this movie but I think there's enough here that removes it from serious contention as "the worst Godzilla movie."

I agree with everything you and eabaker had said previously, and this last part especially. It's an interesting and memorable piece of Honda's work, in my opinion. I think it draws me in more than say, vs Megaguirus or vs Mechagodzilla (1993).
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby eabaker » Wed May 08, 2019 3:50 pm

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
Terasawa wrote:

There are a lot of types of Godzilla fans that won't enjoy this movie no matter what, including those who only watch for the monsters and those who find anything remotely funny in these movies out of place. I can understand why some people don't like this movie but I think there's enough here that removes it from serious contention as "the worst Godzilla movie."

I agree with everything you and eabaker had said previously, and this last part especially. It's an interesting and memorable piece of Honda's work, in my opinion. I think it draws me in more than say, vs Megaguirus or vs Mechagodzilla (1993).


God, yes. Ichiro at least has some kind of inner life worth exploring!
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 09, 2019 6:58 am

I dunno, I have tried watching this many many times, with many different interpretations, expectations or lack thereof, and I still can't get into it. Ichiro aggravates me to no end, I find him to be a rather unlikable protagonist. The bully angle only works for me if the kid himself isn't a bully. Ichiro isn't sympathetic, so it's hard for me to care that he's bullied or have any stake in his fight.

The stock footage is a common complaint, and while people like to defend it, it's always used as jabs against other films that use stock footage, such as Godzilla vs. Gigan, so. How it's used in this is jarring to me.

I can see how people can find some enjoyment in this, I've just never been able to. It's always been my least favorite, and I think it always will be.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Thu May 09, 2019 7:15 am

JAGzilla wrote:I would say Revenge is probably around the halfway point of my amorphous, unfixed list, maybe edging into the top half. The anime trilogy would kind of have to be in the bottom five or so, due to their dull monster action, but COTEOB would be the top of the trilogy. I love the audacity of Mechagodzilla City.

As a person with a major love for Mechagodzilla as a character (if you couldn't tell), I hate how COTEOB turned him into a weird metaphor for the sake of the film's equally weird message about technology. I mean, the anime Mechagodzilla's design is already bad enough, but to add insult to injury, we never even see him do anything. Add in the way that this movie was very obviously marketed as a new Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla movie, and you just have one disappointing, boring mess of a film. Yeah, COTEOB is worse than Revenge. I've finally decided on it. It's the worst of the trilogy for me, with the best being POTM (mostly just because of the opening montage and the final scene of Godzilla Earth coming out of the mountain), and Planet Eater being in the middle (Ghidorah was cool, aside from the design, but the whole film was boring all over again). I still can't decide if I think COTEOB or Raids Again is worse. Both are an absolute chore to sit through, but I don't think anything about Raids Again is really offensive. It's just the worst film to me because it's such a boring drag, which is like a crime against humanity for a Godzilla film. Revenge was at least so incredibly ridiculous and stupid that it was ironically funny. So, I'm indecisive.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Wed May 15, 2019 10:31 pm

Maritonic wrote:I dunno, I have tried watching this many many times, with many different interpretations, expectations or lack thereof, and I still can't get into it. Ichiro aggravates me to no end, I find him to be a rather unlikable protagonist. The bully angle only works for me if the kid himself isn't a bully. Ichiro isn't sympathetic, so it's hard for me to care that he's bullied or have any stake in his fight.

The stock footage is a common complaint, and while people like to defend it, it's always used as jabs against other films that use stock footage, such as Godzilla vs. Gigan, so. How it's used in this is jarring to me.

I can see how people can find some enjoyment in this, I've just never been able to. It's always been my least favorite, and I think it always will be.

In this film, the context is that Ichiro is a fan of Godzilla, either the films in universe, or perhaps if Godzilla is real in the film he is aware of the monsters Godzilla fought. It would make sense that he would imagine the monsters fighting, based on what he has seen or heard. It doesn`t work with GvGigan, because from the audiences, AND protagonists perspective, we are watching an entirely new sequence of events.

I also think that while I don`t like the ending, with Ichiro beating Gabara up and spilling the paint on the painter, I also think it`s more natural and honest. I think it`s more accurate to how kids actually behave. Of course Ichiro is younger, but I see my japanese highschool students, especially the boys, sortve rough house with each other all the time. If Ichiro was just like, `Lets be friends`, I think it would`ve excused all the bullying that Gabara did to him earlier. To be clear, I`m not condoning it, I just don`t take too much issue with it. I still find it problematic in some regards, but I have more problems with the filler with the robbers that proceeds it. The film doesn`t know if the Gabara human, is Gabara the bully, or the thieves. The analogy would make more sense if Minya fought more monsters in the film. I agree with Eabaker that it has a message, and isn`t the worst, but I don`t think it sticks the landing properly.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 am

Oh, no, him fighting back against Gabara isn't my complaint. Standing up to someone who bullies him? No way; totally fine. The painter though? Beating on that dude's car? That's more what I'm referring to.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu May 16, 2019 4:37 am

Maritonic wrote:Oh, no, him fighting back against Gabara isn't my complaint. Standing up to someone who bullies him? No way; totally fine. The painter though? Beating on that dude's car? That's more what I'm referring to.

Yeah, I think it’s also really damaging because earlier that’s what one of the bullies wanted Ichiro to do. In a way he agreed to being hazed.

Perhaps if Ichiro was bullied into doing that early on, and got in trouble it would’ve made way more sense.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Zarm » Thu May 16, 2019 5:39 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Oh, no, him fighting back against Gabara isn't my complaint. Standing up to someone who bullies him? No way; totally fine. The painter though? Beating on that dude's car? That's more what I'm referring to.

Yeah, I think it’s also really damaging because earlier that’s what one of the bullies wanted Ichiro to do. In a way he agreed to being hazed.

Perhaps if Ichiro was bullied into doing that early on, and got in trouble it would’ve made way more sense.


It's something they wanted him to do, and he said something like "No, he could get hurt/that would be cruel." And then, once he's in, he's like, "Hey, check it out- this will make me popular!" That's what I hate about it. It's probably realistic, but it's just... not a good development.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby GojiDog » Thu May 16, 2019 5:51 am

I think what they were going for with Ichiro honking the horn was he not only needed to learn how to stand up for himself, but he also needed the bravery to experience life a little bit. We all make mistakes, and its important that we learn from them, but Ichiro was so sheltered that he was basically afraid to do anything good or bad.

His experiences with the bank robbers, reconciliation with his parents, and lessons he learned from his Godzilla fantasies gave him the self esteem he needed to finally live life and be a normal kid. He stood up to his bully and showed he can't be pushed around, and then he turned around and did something stupid, which he realized right away was wrong. He made a mistake, but now his life won't be so humdrum and boring and he's more willing to expose himself to new experiences rather than be the meek and scared boy he was at the start of the film.

Now granted, the way it comes off in the film is Ichiro has basically superseded Gabara as the new alpha bully, and it probably could have been done better, but knowing Honda's mindset, I doubt that was the intention.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 16, 2019 7:15 am

GojiDog wrote:I think what they were going for with Ichiro honking the horn was he not only needed to learn how to stand up for himself, but he also needed the bravery to experience life a little bit. We all make mistakes, and its important that we learn from them, but Ichiro was so sheltered that he was basically afraid to do anything good or bad.

His experiences with the bank robbers, reconciliation with his parents, and lessons he learned from his Godzilla fantasies gave him the self esteem he needed to finally live life and be a normal kid. He stood up to his bully and showed he can't be pushed around, and then he turned around and did something stupid, which he realized right away was wrong. He made a mistake, but now his life won't be so humdrum and boring and he's more willing to expose himself to new experiences rather than be the meek and scared boy he was at the start of the film.


Thanks! I've tried to make this point in the past, but you articulated it far better than I ever have!

Now granted, the way it comes off in the film is Ichiro has basically superseded Gabara as the new alpha bully, and it probably could have been done better, but knowing Honda's mindset, I doubt that was the intention.


I've never understood this claim, though. While the movie suggests the the other kids may now follow Ichiro to some degree, is there any suggestion that he'll use this newfound power to attack those weaker than himself, or with a lower social status? Is there any indication at all of what, if anything, he'll do with this power?

Honestly, my best guess would be that, by the next day, Ichiro's back to mostly palling around with that one girl, but the other kids aren't picking on them anymore.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 16, 2019 7:24 am

I always took it as he was just going to be a bully like Gabara. That's how I interpreted it when I rewatched it not too long ago.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Terasawa » Thu May 16, 2019 7:51 am

Good analysis, GojiDog, I think that was Sekizawa's/Honda's intent and that's how I've always read it. He stands up to his bullies and by doing so shows that, like the monster Gabara, they're not nearly as tough as they act. It's not a matter of usurping them to become the new bully at school.

As for the painter becoming a victim of Ichiro's "rampage," that's because it's a kid's movie and they're ending it on a bit of (good) physical comedy, although I agree it's an action that has unintended consequences for Ichiro's development. He doesn't mean to cause the painter to fall, he's just honking the horn because that's something a kid having fun would do. He tells his dad to apologize for him; I don't think a "bad kid" would have bothered doing that.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 16, 2019 7:55 am

Maritonic wrote:I always took it as he was just going to be a bully like Gabara. That's how I interpreted it when I rewatched it not too long ago.


And I just don't see anything in the movie that suggests that.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 16, 2019 8:05 am

eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:I always took it as he was just going to be a bully like Gabara. That's how I interpreted it when I rewatched it not too long ago.


And I just don't see anything in the movie that suggests that.


I certainly do. The way he acts the entire film. He's not really a "good" kid. He's kind of a shithead haha.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 16, 2019 8:27 am

Maritonic wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:I always took it as he was just going to be a bully like Gabara. That's how I interpreted it when I rewatched it not too long ago.


And I just don't see anything in the movie that suggests that.


I certainly do. The way he acts the entire film. He's not really a "good" kid. He's kind of a shithead haha.


I can't think of any moments in which he demonstrates cruelty, or exploits any kind of power over anyone else.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby Maritonic » Thu May 16, 2019 8:30 am

eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
eabaker wrote:
And I just don't see anything in the movie that suggests that.


I certainly do. The way he acts the entire film. He's not really a "good" kid. He's kind of a shithead haha.


I can't think of any moments in which he demonstrates cruelty, or exploits any kind of power over anyone else.


From my perspective, he's simply not a "nice, good" child. He's a punk. He jumps on the guys car, punks the painter guy, laughs at the old man's pain and expense. He's not a sympathetic character. I don't like him, I think it's very easy to foresee him becoming a bully himself.

Not sure why this is a point of contention.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Postby eabaker » Thu May 16, 2019 8:34 am

Maritonic wrote:Not sure why this is a point of contention.


Because not everyone perceives the character or the circumstances the same way that you do.
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