Toho Kingdom

Maritonic wrote:Again, don't get me wrong. I can see how people find joy in this. I just don't think it's criticisms are unjustified. My ranking of the Godzilla films has changed over the years, but this has always been the bottom (now it's #4 from the bottom). But, for every single Godzilla film, i get how someone could like it and find something different in it. I just don't see this as a film that's so fantastic and great, but gets crapped on. Again, my Halloween III comparison.

Is anybody really saying that it's "great," or just that the criticism is overblown?

eabaker wrote:

Maritonic wrote:Again, don't get me wrong. I can see how people find joy in this. I just don't think it's criticisms are unjustified. My ranking of the Godzilla films has changed over the years, but this has always been the bottom (now it's #4 from the bottom). But, for every single Godzilla film, i get how someone could like it and find something different in it. I just don't see this as a film that's so fantastic and great, but gets crapped on. Again, my Halloween III comparison.

Is anybody really saying that it's "great," or just that the criticism is overblown?

The claim is that it doesn't get "the praise it deserves". I mean.

Maritonic wrote:

eabaker wrote:

Maritonic wrote:Again, don't get me wrong. I can see how people find joy in this. I just don't think it's criticisms are unjustified. My ranking of the Godzilla films has changed over the years, but this has always been the bottom (now it's #4 from the bottom). But, for every single Godzilla film, i get how someone could like it and find something different in it. I just don't see this as a film that's so fantastic and great, but gets crapped on. Again, my Halloween III comparison.

Is anybody really saying that it's "great," or just that the criticism is overblown?

The claim is that it doesn't get "the praise it deserves". I mean.

Since it mostly gets pretty much 0 praise, I don't think that's an unreasonable claim. If there's literally anything about it to praise, then it doesn't get the praise it deserves in most circles.

Sometimes I wonder if fan reaction to this movie has improved since "All Monsters Attack" became the more common title. "Godzilla's Revenge" is a great title but it definitely doesn't fit this film.

This one mesmerized me as a kid, it's dreamy feel (also quite literally) was something else. Yeah it's weird, but it's got that pure weird Godzilla feel.

I also like how this was one of Ishiro Honda's favorites.

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: I also like how this was one of Ishiro Honda's favorites.

Huh, I never knew that. Not surprising though considering it's more in line with slice of life dramas, which was the type of films he really wanted to be making.

Dr. Professor wrote:

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: I also like how this was one of Ishiro Honda's favorites.

Huh, I never knew that. Not surprising though considering it's more in line with slice of life dramas, which was the type of films he really wanted to be making.

Yeah.

Honda was type cast as a director sadly & never had a chance to
work on what he truly desired...which was slice of life dramas.

It is a well made film, and I understand that Honda was attempting to do something very different for the new Champion Festival format. However I do think the film missed the mark. I think this is the best use of heavy stock footage, where entire scenes are pretty much reused. Previously there was stock footage, but it was mostly quick effect shots of military, destruction, or explosions. This was a time before there was anyway to rewatch the films without seeing them in the theater or on TV. So for a film aimed at a younger audience that was too young to see some of the fights used from Ebirah and Son of Godzilla it wasn't really out of place.

Overall the story isn't really bad, but it is bland. I always like to take into account the human side of any kaiju movie. If I removed the kaiju parts would I still enjoy the characters and their stories. For a lot of the 60's films it is a very positive yes. For example, I like the human story in GTTHM, if it was just a movie about a cop and his reporter sister protecting a foreign princess from an assassin it would be interesting. Both GVMZ and DAM are actually good Toho alien invasion movies to start with, with the kaiju added in. However the story here of a kid dealing with bullies and thieves isn't interesting enough by itself. Even when I was an elementary school kid in the 70's I didn't like the film when it was played on "Monster Week" or during the Saturday afternoon horor/sci-fi movie. At that time VCR's were still a decade away and TV and the late 70's films showing up in theaters was the only way I could see Godzilla films. I was arguably the target audience at the time, if not actually being Japanese.

So for me it always gets a low rating because it is bland, and due to being in the age of owning films, redundant. I only watch the film if I am doing a in order rewatch or for a review of some type. I have recently rewatched it as part of my lastest project so it is a bit fresh in my mind.

On December 20th this film turns 50! Time is flying by, but these films still hold up pretty well.

Terasawa wrote:Sometimes I wonder if fan reaction to this movie has improved since "All Monsters Attack" became the more common title. "Godzilla's Revenge" is a great title but it definitely doesn't fit this film.

All Monster’s attack is still lame and sortve misleading. I do think though that the film would’ve been better off with the title,”Minya’s Revenge” or something.

As I’ve gotten older, and have been exposed to more Japanese movies, I can’t help but mentally accept what a lot of people on this thread are saying about it being a weird period piece of Japanese children.

It sortve(?), reminds me of this, a very famous movie made a few years prior:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Mo ... 1959_film)

However, while I’ve grown to appreciate the human side a lot more, I’m not going to act like the film melds what it’s trying to do with Godzilla and Minya with the human side of things well. The film suffers from having a long stretch between when Minya and Godzilla beat Gabara to Ichigo besting the robbers and subsequently the bullies. Gabara should’ve gotten a lot more screen time, and posed a more significant threat, instead of all the stock footage. And, in the end, it’s Godzilla that decimated Gabara, not Minya. It sortve contradicts everything prior. And there’s Gabara the bully, but then the two robbers, and the bully, whom Gabara the monster is named after, doesn’t play a big part in the story. It would make way more sense to either have two Gabara’s for two robbers, or incorporate the bully’s role into the story more.

As much as I get budget was an issue, would it have killed them to pull any suits, or puppets, like the Kamacuras ones to just reshoot new scenes? Just because the budget was low, doesn’t excuse that the execution was lazy.

So, just watching a version of All Monsters Attack with, supposedly, more accurate subtitles. At the beginning, when Ichiro talks about the sound that Minilla makes, his little friend says "How would you know? You've never even seen him." That, to me, settles the debate between this being in the 'real world' or a world with Kaiju in it. That feels like the kind of statement one would only make about a real-world phenomenon that he hasn't seen.

The alternative, that he's a Kaiju superfan that... just hasn't seen Son of Godzilla, I guess, and his friend knows about that? Does not seem to be nearly as plausible an interpretation of that line.

The only other strong piece of evidence for a real world in which the Godzilla movies exist instead would seem to be the Godzilla action figure. But the existence of those action figures in the next film, which definitely takes place in a world with Kaiju, would seem to eliminate that as any strong piece of evidence. So for me, at least, this longtime debate can be settled. It takes place in the same universe as the rest of the films- or at the very least, if one prefers to think of the showa universe as lacking a strict continuity, it takes place in the universe like the rest of the films, in which Godzilla actually exists.

Zarm wrote:But the existence of those action figures in the next film, which definitely takes place in a world with Kaiju, would seem to eliminate that as any strong piece of evidence.

I've made the case on this board in the past that there is a valid reading of Godzilla vs. Hedorah in which Godzilla and Hedorah are not real.

Also, I can remember numerous times (well, okay, I don't really remember the specific occasions so much as that it happened many times) that other kids said things to me like, "How would you know? You've never seen a Dracula!" "How would you know? You've never seen a Frankenstein!" etc.

But in regards to a sound, which the cinematic creations you'd seen clearly included?

Rewatched this film, and it’s fun reading my own remarks that I wrote in this thread. This film, by some considered the worst, has been beaten to death, so I’m just going to try to offer some original criticism. I think the points of this being a valid humanistic film about Japanese society in the 1960’s, especially for children, is a completely valid view, and saves the film from being the worst.

Also structurally, with the exception of the final 20 mins, I can appreciate how the film is set up. Even though it’s stock footage, monster wise there’s a good structure.

Act 1:
Godzilla vs Kamakuras
Godzilla vs the Giant Condor
Kamakuras chase
Minya intro
Gabara intro

Act 2:
Gabara chase
Minya
Godzilla vs Ebirah
Godzilla vs Kumonga
Gabara vs Minya (1)
Godzilla vs Jets
Godzilla and Minya

Act 3:
Minya vs Gabara
Godzilla and Minya vs Gabara
Godzilla vs Gabara

There’s a nice structure to how Gabara is built up, and the variety of monster fights flow nicely. While some of it is goofy, the final fight is decent in length. Gabara is a cheap looking monster, but for the budget has a unique and stand out design. I wouldn’t mind if a more modern updated version of him appeared in the future, it’s also a shame he’s been ignored by the IDW series.

It doesn’t save it from the film’s biggest flaw, which is the final act with Ichirio. The last 20 mins are devoid of monster action, and while that may feel appropriate, a lot of human stuff there is full of filler that could be cut down. Ichiro really only sets one small trap for the robbers, and only bites and fires the fire extinguisher once. For him supposed to be overpowering the robbers or fighting back a lot of it comes down to them being super incompetent and well, drunk. The fact that Minya doesn’t even have a final send off with Ichiro, like a brief 1 min scene at the end where Ichiro says goodbye to Minya is astounding as well. It feels like the Gabara fight ends, and then with the exception of the thief being compared to Gabara briefly nothing even happens.

Many point out how skewed the message is human wise, but I’d like to point out how skewed the message is with Minya, and how badly Minya suffers in portrayal for this film. I just watched SoG last night, and lemme point something out:

Minya in the last film had a solid arc, and this film makes him seem like how people mostly remember him. Minya by the end was firing Godzilla level beams left and right. Yet this time, he’s back to consistent smoke rings, save for a beam or two caused by his foot being stepped on. Compare it to how in the climax of the previous film, that it was Godzilla and Minya fighting Kumonga, not Minya getting a few hits in on Godzilla and then being bailed out by his father. Film would’ve been stronger if Minya had the final blow to Gabara.

Not the worst film, and it gets a lot of bonus points for what it does right in the first two acts with Ichiro, and for its budget and intent, but It doesn’t excuse some of its weird flaws towards the end, and it doesn’t excuse all the stock footage.

I used to watch a lot of the post DAM Godzilla movies when I was a kid, especially this one. I've watched it at least 1,000 times. Now I just forgot the whole thing except for
the monster fights. I still have the Classic Media DVD and I do try to watch sometimes. I just get bored of this movie too fast. As a kid I thought it was awesome because back then, I just wanted monster action and nothing else. I didn't care about the story or anything but the monster action.

This one is easily considered one of the worst of the series, if not the worst. But I still think Raids Again is worse. You wanna talk about a rushed film? That's Raids Again. Plus, at least this one is so stupid it's sort of ironically funny. Raids Again is just boring. Actually, I'm debating whether or not City on the Edge of Battle is my new least favorite. But this one is still in the top 3 worst, for sure.

I would say Revenge is probably around the halfway point of my amorphous, unfixed list, maybe edging into the top half. The anime trilogy would kind of have to be in the bottom five or so, due to their dull monster action, but COTEOB would be the top of the trilogy. I love the audacity of Mechagodzilla City.

Nice analysis, LSDJellyfish!

This is easily enjoyable if you shift your expectations. It’s not like any other Godzilla movie but it’s also not trying to be. I for one appreciate the work Honda and Sekizawa did to produce an interesting and unique dramatic framing device for what could have simply been a clipshow.

Terasawa wrote:This is easily enjoyable if you shift your expectations. It’s not like any other Godzilla movie but it’s also not trying to be. I for one appreciate the work Honda and Sekizawa did to produce an interesting and unique dramatic framing device for what could have simply been a clipshow.

100% this. They were presented with an unenviable task, and they managed to turn out a surprisingly entertaining movie, and one that actually feels fresh despite its reliance on existing footage (the new scoring for the recycled sequences helps).

Ichiro's story is not just an excuse to string monster clips together, which it easily could have been. I'm sufficiently engrossed in it, in fact, that the absence of monster action near the end doesn't bother me; by then, it has served its purpose in Ichiro's arc.