Talkback Thread #9: Destroy All Monsters (1968)

[miguelnuva]

I think Mothra went to the island because by 1999 Godzilla had done his superhero thing, Angurius and Rodan were loyal to him, Rodan also to Mothra maybe so once the 4 of them got the the island any other monster had no other choice but to obey.

And, if we assume that GvsGigan and GvsMegalon take place in the years that they were released, most of the monsters seem to have gravitated towards the island decades before the events of DAM.

I had forgot about that, I guess since Monster Island was destroyed when Monster Land was built all the monsters were already use to living with each other and just went to Monster Land.

I still don't know if Mothra decided to move and hang out with her fellow allies or what but I'm not going to think to hard about it.

I still wish Kong or one of the Gargantuas could have been in the film though. If time machines ever get made I'm going back to 1968 and giving Toho enough money to not only include Kong, but build suits for Baragon, Varan, Rodan and Manda so they can help in the final Battle against Ghidorah.

[ruel]

Friends,
After finally getting myself a Showa Ghidorah figure, I've been thinking about Ghidorah's fight against the Earth monsters in "Destroy All Monsters." I think Ghidorah could have won this fight if he'd followed that classic principle of military science: Occupy the high ground on a low slope with a minor obstruction.

If he'd done that, the battle might have unfolded like this:
1. Ghidorah takes up position above the monsters on Mt. Fuji and uses his lightning to make entrenchments at the foot of the mountain.
2. Ghidorah starts firing on the monsters with his lighting.
3. Rodan and other flying monsters charge Ghidorah's position but are shot down by lightning.
4. The walking monsters charge uphill but are slowed by the entrenchments, making them easy targets for Ghidorah's lightning shots.
5. As the monsters fall back, Ghidorah starts an avalanche to trap them, and then melts the rock with his lightning to encase them in molten earth.
6. Finally, Ghidorah fires lightning into Mt. Fuji to induce an eruption, burying the monsters in lava.

Thoughts? I don't have all the monsters from the movie, but I'll try making a preliminary diorama sequence to illustrate this scenario.

[MaxRebo320]

Sounds interesting to me. What monsters do you still need that participated in the fight?

[ruel]

I only have Godzilla, larva Mothra, Baragon, and Anguirus (though he's 8" instead of 6" like the others). I have some dinosaur and animal figures that could stand in for Gorosaurus, Rodan, Kumonga, and Minilla until I get those. But since the fighting during that scene was handled primarily by only three monsters -- Godzilla, Anguirus, and Gorosaurus -- it probably doesn't matter much who the background monsters were; they were more spectators than participants in the fight.

[Arbok]

3. Rodan and other flying monsters charge Ghidorah's position but are shot down by lightning.

Not that the humans were controlling him very well in the movie, but: in Invasion of Astro-Monster Rodan proved quite capable of not only being able to withstand King Ghidorah's beams, but being able to maintain his flight while his wings were being struck by them. So assuming Rodan was being more aggressive than we saw in the film, he would have been hard to take out of that fight without a more prolonged battle between the two.

[edgaguirus]

It seems like a winning strategy. It would be effective against most of the monsters.

The only problem I see with it is Mothra and Kumonga. They both have effective distance weapons that could enshroud Ghidorah or distract Ghidorah from attack. All those two need is Godzilla and the other monsters to provide defense for them.

[Crimson_Raptor]

I would have to say, even with King Ghidorah taking the high ground, Godzilla would still have been able to defeat him. Godzilla could have used his flame breath to knock out ground from beneath the golden dragon's feet.

Although the humans lost control of the Earth monsters for the final fight, it would stand to reason that the Kilaaks forced King Ghidorah into a battle he would have otherwise gotten away from or at least fought completely different. I use both, Godzilla versus Gigan and Invasion of Astro-Monster as proof of concept. Ghidorah the three-headed monster could be used as well.

[Kubo]

If the Kilaakians utilized the Fire Dragon during the final battle, Ghidorah would stand a better chance. It's not definitely in his favor, but the Fire Dragon could certainly provide some needed support against the monsters. I'm going to assume it's immune to the webs produced by Mothra and Kumonga, since the Fire Dragon is encased in fire. It's questionable how much Godzilla's atomic ray would do to the ship, but he's the only monster (besides Baragon) who has any sort of long range weapon, giving the Fire Dragon even more of an advantage. The thing King Ghidorah would need to do is avoid being surrounded of caught off guard. He managed to keep the monsters at bay for a short time, but he needs to take advantage of only one (excluding Varan's gliding ability) flying opponent. Stick to the air, utilize the beams, bring in the Fire Dragon, and King Ghidorah might have this battle in the bag.

[ruel]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies friends; critiquing this battle certainly does generate alot of interesting analysis.

* I agree that Rodan took a surprisingly minimal role in this fight, considering his more aggressive stance in previous encounters with Ghidorah. As noted, if the alien ship had been used simultaneously with Ghidorah, it might provided cover for Ghidorah against Rodan's aerial attack, and maybe the combined fire from the ship and Ghidorah could take him (and Varan) out.

* Might Ghidorah have been able to use his wings to generate a hurricane that would blow back against Mothra's and Kumonga's webbing? But even without doing that, those two are slow moving monsters who should make easy targets for Ghidorah's lightning strikes. The ranged firing weapons would seem to be Ghidorah's biggest threat, but as mentioned Godzilla and Baragon are the only others who have them and so Ghidorah might try to neutralize them first by fly-over attacks. He might also simply reposition himself on adjacent mountain slopes if the the monsters manage to charge him, and repeat the same distance attack. We all can probably agree that the key to a Ghidorah victory lies in preventing the monsters from closing ranks, where they could contain his fire and "ground & pound" him (exactly what happened in the movie).

* Another strategy might be for Ghidorah to simply start his attack by detonating the volcano first. That would force the monsters to break formation and scatter, and probably eliminate many of them from the fight. Afterward, Ghidorah (and the Fire Dragon) could engage them in isolation.

[123go]

If the Fire Dragon were to keep Godzilla and Rodan busy, would the combined forces of everyone else be enough? I think it would be close.

[Arbok]

If the Fire Dragon were to keep Godzilla and Rodan busy, would the combined forces of everyone else be enough? I think it would be close.

If King Ghidorah played it smart and attacked them from the sky, he would have been able to beat them without breaking a sweat. If he lands and battles them point-blank, Gorosaurus + Anguirus with Kumonga + Mothra disabling him, and Kumonga getting more aggressive with his poison barb, is "probably" enough, but could go either way.

[ruel]

Yes, high ground and projectile fire are the keys to a Ghidorah victory. Classic military science principles apply even to monster combat. It would be neat if future movies showed an awareness of these principles and incorporated them into the fight scenes, especially for super-monsters like Ghidorah who have the ability to fulfill multiple tactical roles simultaneously. Even against the odds, he should have won more often than he has so far.

[123go]

Yes, high ground and projectile fire are the keys to a Ghidorah victory. Classic military science principles apply even to monster combat. It would be neat if future movies showed an awareness of these principles and incorporated them into the fight scenes, especially for super-monsters like Ghidorah who have the ability to fulfill multiple tactical roles simultaneously. Even against the odds, he should have won more often than he has so far.

I agree he should have been on the winning end more often. He usually applied those tactics when he fought but he also always seemed to go against Godzilla & Rodan, and their durability was to much for him to overcome. With the lesser Kaiju he should be able to systamatically pick them off. He could have killed Anguirus when he landed on him if he could have worked him over a little longer. And Gorosaurus seemed to really be hurt when he got hit by Ghidorah's gravity bolts. The others probably would be just as hurt when they got hit.

[JVM]

I only have Godzilla, larva Mothra, Baragon, and Anguirus (though he's 8" instead of 6" like the others). I have some dinosaur and animal figures that could stand in for Gorosaurus, Rodan, Kumonga, and Minilla until I get those. But since the fighting during that scene was handled primarily by only three monsters -- Godzilla, Anguirus, and Gorosaurus -- it probably doesn't matter much who the background monsters were; they were more spectators than participants in the fight.

I would still purchase a Rodan figure, but stand-ins would probably be fine for most of the others.

[ruel]

* Yes, I probably won't make a serious attempt at diorama-ing this fight until I have figures of at least a majority of the Earth monsters. But yes, this fight begs for a re-analysis and I hope others of you who do have all the relevant figures might consider making your own diorama-analyses as well.

* I have been experimenting with some dioramas recently, mostly scale models of downtown Dallas and Ft. Worth, Texas. Unfortunately, I don't know how to attach files here. Does this forum support image attachments (.jpg)?

[Mincecraft]

It seems like a winning strategy. It would be effective against most of the monsters.

The only problem I see with it is Mothra and Kumonga. They both have effective distance weapons that could enshroud Ghidorah or distract Ghidorah from attack. All those two need is Godzilla and the other monsters to provide defense for them.

It's basically like poppin' smoke.

But other than that, I see no flaws in that plan.

[Lain Of The Wired]

My question is, the Kamacuras marionette was still in good condition (as shown in All Monsters Attack) so why wasn't it used the film?

[GalacticPetey]

Probably because there were already 11 monsters in the movie.

[miguelnuva]

Considering in universe Godzilla was more or less his 75 version I think Ghidorah was screwed the moment Godzilla appeared on screen.

I still wish Toho would make an exact DAM remake with modern tech and have all the monsters fight King Ghidorah.

[Tokage]

My question is, the Kamacuras marionette was still in good condition (as shown in All Monsters Attack) so why wasn't it used the film?

We can only guess, but I'd say Kamakuras wasn't a very powerful or impressive monster by itself, and there were already so many wires going for Ghidorah, Kumonga, Manda, Rodan and Mothra that another marionette wasn't wanted.
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