Who should have won?

[he-ba]

Actually, KKvG may be THE most famous movie out of the franchise (yup, there's gonna be hate for that). Living in a populated area, I have met countless people who watched the Thanksgiving special in the 60's 70's and 80's, with this , Mighty Joe Young, and KK being BIG. In fact, one of the staples of Bergen County NJ was that all elementary teachers would give a fun quiz on KKvG (And, of course, the answer for who won is incorrect.... us Americans). I've even met people from the south and west who would watch it, too, and I have to ruin their childhood and tell them it was a tie!

[three]

Everyone that is made at Kong winning know that early showa Godzilla was much weaker than the late Showa Godzilla correct? This same Godzilla could barely even deal with Angurius and Toho Kong got stronger from what Godzilla was getting weaker from.

Godzilla was also pretty stupid pre GTTHM.

exactly.

And in 1962, Kong was the iconic giant monster loved the world over. NOT Godzilla.

yea, exactly. and if you have Godzilla win that fight, how does Godzilla look to the world? a relative unknown toppling an icon comes off as arrogant and silly. having him match Kong on equal footing was a good way to promote the monster worldwide without overdoing it. by no means an easy task, and part of why that film is so good is that they had both monsters on screen and never once did one overshadow the other, which is true to this day among Godzilla fans. some people can't get past the fact that it was a draw, but whatevs.

[miguelnuva]

Three I think Toho said Kong won. Either way that's how it should be, the young guy giving the older one a last ride in the spotline before he takes over.

[Gojira tai Mosura]

Everyone that is made at Kong winning know that early showa Godzilla was much weaker than the late Showa Godzilla correct? This same Godzilla could barely even deal with Angurius and Toho Kong got stronger from what Godzilla was getting weaker from.

Godzilla was also pretty stupid pre GTTHM.

exactly.

And in 1962, Kong was the iconic giant monster loved the world over. NOT Godzilla.

yea, exactly. and if you have Godzilla win that fight, how does Godzilla look to the world? a relative unknown toppling an icon comes off as arrogant and silly. having him match Kong on equal footing was a good way to promote the monster worldwide without overdoing it. by no means an easy task, and part of why that film is so good is that they had both monsters on screen and never once did one overshadow the other, which is true to this day among Godzilla fans. some people can't get past the fact that it was a draw, but whatevs.

Huh. I never looked at it that way.
You have a really good point there.
Thanks for staying calm and not getting aggressive.

I think way too many people look at KKvsG from inside their 21st century Godzilla fan bubbles and simply can't understand why it's so popular.

...Or we just don't like the movie?
Age has nothing to do with this. Chill out.

[Legion1979]

Honestly, I'd say age does have a lot to do with this. Most people I've seen who dislike this film do tend to be younger fans who either don't understand that the movie is a satire, have never seen the Japanese version or just can't deal with the idea of Kong beating Godzilla. And the majority of people I know who adore this film are over 30 so...

[Dr. Nishiyama]

The match did not end in a tie. Kong won. In both versions. Toho even said so.

[Gerdzerl]

Honestly, I'd say age does have a lot to do with this. Most people I've seen who dislike this film do tend to be younger fans who either don't understand that the movie is a satire, have never seen the Japanese version or just can't deal with the idea of Kong beating Godzilla. And the majority of people I know who adore this film are over 30 so...

Wait, KKVG is a satire? What is it satirizing exactly? I apologize if this a stupid question, as I wasn't aware that it was supposed to be a satire.

[three]

The match did not end in a tie. Kong won. In both versions. Toho even said so.

interesting. they felt the need to clarify this? i think that sums up the original consensus very well.

[Darksenshi]

I've always felt that no one won or loss and it was a tie because the fight ended when they fell in the water. If they would have stayed on land continued the fight and never fell off the cliff Kong would have definitely been killed. Falling off the cliff actually saved him in my opinion.

[he-ba]

The match did not end in a tie. Kong won. In both versions. Toho even said so.

It was a tie.
Kong swims ABOVE water, Godzilla swims BELOW water, and after that tiring battle they both just swam away. Neither won. That's why they wanted a sequel!
I have never even heard any hints as to Toho saying Kong won.

[Darksenshi]

The match did not end in a tie. Kong won. In both versions. Toho even said so.

It was a tie.
Kong swims ABOVE water, Godzilla swims BELOW water, and after that tiring battle they both just swam away. Neither won. That's why they wanted a sequel!
I have never even heard any hints as to Toho saying Kong won.

Exactly! The fight ended when they fell off the cliff. No one won. Now if they would have stayed on land we would have a winner. Like Prime said "One shall stand and one shall fall".

[Legion1979]

Toho's stance has always been that Kong won. He got top billing, he was the iconic star at the time, he was the lesser or two evils. He won. Some of you really need to find a way of dealing with this.

[Darksenshi]

Toho's stance has always been that Kong won. He got top billing, he was the iconic star at the time, he was the lesser or two evils. He won. Some of you really need to find a way of dealing with this.

I'm pretty sure they said that back in those days so racist Americans wouldn't feel salty. But everyone knows what they saw. No one won...PERIOD.

I can hear it now...."Those damn Japs can't beat our Kong".

Hmph...whatever.

[three]

Toho's stance has always been that Kong won. He got top billing, he was the iconic star at the time, he was the lesser or two evils. He won. Some of you really need to find a way of dealing with this.

some of us don't care exactly what Toho said, ya know?

personally, and you can let this influence how you think of my posts henceforth, i think something like this in which the ending is left in ambiguity was a great way to introduce Godzilla to the world audience. i mean, what great champion ever was simply awarded the championship and told "there, now claim your legacy"? he had to tackle a known, powerful foe. he would have to be the underdog. and in the end, i think, he had to at least hold his ground.

now, Toho states Kong won. i have no qualms with this whatsoever. however, i think that in a case like this, they only felt the need to clarify because the ending was unclear, and thus many can draw conclusions that it was a draw prior to learning that truth (which should have just stayed locked away) and draw that conclusion. and personally, that's how i see it, not because "dur hur, GODZILLA IS DA KING, YOU ALL BOW TO DA MASTER", but because the ending is more satisfying to me in that way, and it's one i've held on to through the years and still do, despite learning of the "official" stance two days ago.

[he-ba]

But when and where did Toho say this? If I have some sort of proof or something it'll be settled in my head- but my belief right now is that nobody won.
And I do get the satire, my friends don't but I do and that makes it quite the amusing film.

[miguelnuva]

Toho's stance has always been that Kong won. He got top billing, he was the iconic star at the time, he was the lesser or two evils. He won. Some of you really need to find a way of dealing with this.

I'm pretty sure they said that back in those days so racist Americans wouldn't feel salty. But everyone knows what they saw. No one won...PERIOD.

I can hear it now...."Those damn Japs can't beat our Kong".

Hmph...whatever.

You think the strong nationalism Japanese cared what the Americans thought especially in the 60's

[skuzzy-punk-kid]

Toho's stance has always been that Kong won. He got top billing, he was the iconic star at the time, he was the lesser or two evils. He won. Some of you really need to find a way of dealing with this.

I'm pretty sure they said that back in those days so racist Americans wouldn't feel salty. But everyone knows what they saw. No one won...PERIOD.

I can hear it now...."Those damn Japs can't beat our Kong".

Hmph...whatever.

You think the strong nationalism Japanese cared what the Americans thought especially in the 60's

This might be a weak argument, but they should care enough to sell their product to the American market; if Japan was to be presenting something with heavy tones of arrogant nationalism, would the American market be willing to buy it?

But then again, arrogant nationalism would go both ways. I do have a feeling there was heavy American nationalism going on during that time; considering the events of the Cold War.

[three]

Don't particularly understand why the official stance matters with regards to he initial perseption. That's what sold us the franchise here, really, is how people see the outcome, not necessarily how Toho says it went down.

[Dr. Nishiyama]

In 1962 King Kong was more loved in Japan than Godzilla, not to mention more popular. In the official movie programs by Toho it stated Kong was the victor. No draw. Kong won. He was also the underdog of the movie and the Japanese prefer their underdogs to win. By partially being a Kong movie, was one of the reasons why KKvsG was the most successful Godzilla movie in Toho's franchise

[three]

Right. I'm saying the official stance makes no difference if the audience perceived the outcome a certain way initially, because that determines the course after.